Other Cricket
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@mn5 said in Other Cricket:
@bovidae said in Other Cricket:
It would be interesting to see a comparison for the most test wickets once a player reached 30. Anderson would be right up there I think, as he has had a very long career (albeit with some injuries).
In terms of performance Paddles would be one of the absolute best. Bear in mind he was 34 when he took 15 in the match vs Oz !!!!!
That is the comparison I was thinking about.
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@bovidae said in Other Cricket:
@mn5 said in Other Cricket:
@bovidae said in Other Cricket:
It would be interesting to see a comparison for the most test wickets once a player reached 30. Anderson would be right up there I think, as he has had a very long career (albeit with some injuries).
In terms of performance Paddles would be one of the absolute best. Bear in mind he was 34 when he took 15 in the match vs Oz !!!!!
That is the comparison I was thinking about.
Indeed, I think Hadlee damaged his stats ( shit, if you can say that about a bloke who averaged 22 per test wicket ) early on in his career by being a bit loose and inaccurate.
Once he shortened the run up he became THE absolute ATG of the 80s, pretty incredible when you think how many fast bowlers break down at that age.
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Anderson has played more tests in his 30s than nearly any NZer will play in their entire career
Also, my all time attack of Paddles, McGrath and my boy Curtly are all gonna play in that team until their retirement. Look at their fucking records!
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@mariner4life said in Other Cricket:
Anderson has played more tests in his 30s than nearly any NZer will play in their entire career
Also, my all time attack of Paddles, McGrath and my boy Curtly are all gonna play in that team until their retirement. Look at their fucking records!
Surprised to see the name Malcolm Marshall not being there but Wikipedia tells me he played his last test at 33.
Despite periods of being quite a shit team England are ALWAYS gonna have the luxury of five test series which we never get so not surprised in the slightest their guys play a shitload more than ours.
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The similarity with Hadlee and Anderson is how much they improved after the age of 30. (truth is probably late 20s). They shave 8 and 7 runs off their bowling averavges respectively after that age.
This is Hadlee's record up until the age of the 30:
And this is Anderson's:
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@rapido said in Other Cricket:
The similarity with Hadlee and Anderson is how much they improved after the age of 30. (truth is probably late 20s). They shave 8 and 7 runs off their bowling averavges respectively after that age.
This is Hadlee's record up until the age of the 30:
And this is Anderson's:
Paddles was already pretty damn good but the way he took it to next level is inspirational. From reading his book it was his 10 seasons in England county cricket that completely transformed him.
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Top 15 New Zealand cricketers from 1980-2021:
- Richard Hadlee .- Hadlee's record from 1980 until retirement in 1991 was 324 wickets at the brilliant average of 19.70. His record in Australia was phenomenal taking 70 wickets at 15.97 in that time period. He also averaged 14.00 with the ball in India.
- Martin Crowe - A talented and beautiful stroke maker he made 17 centuries for the Kiwis, the third most for hundreds made for NZ. An absolute stand out in the 80s for NZ he averaged over 60 in test cricket in 1986, 1987 and 1989.
- Kane Williamson - With an outstanding test average of 53.95 he is New Zealand's best batsman by averages by some way. New Zealand's second greatest run scorer of all tiime. Has gotten better with age, since 2015 he has averaged 65.31 in test cricket.
- Brendon McCullum - His strike rate of 96.37 is the best for a New Zealand batsman out of their top 30 run scorers in one day internationals. He made 12 centuries in 101 tests including the fastest test century of all time in 54 balls.
- Daniel Vettori - New Zealand's most capped test match player ever with 112 caps. He is their second highest wicket taker with 362 wickets. Turned himself into a handy lower order bat making 6 centuries at the handy test average of 30.00
- Ross Taylor - New Zealand's highest ever run scorer in a career that has spanned 14 years. Taylor also leads the way for New Zealand with most one day runs in their history at the excellent average of 48.20. He has their most ever one day centuries with 24.
- Chris Cairns - Took over 200 wickets in both tests and One Day matches. His best bowling figures coming in a test match win against the West Indies where he took 7/27 with the ball. A match winner with the bat in One Day Cricket.
- BJ. Watling - New Zealand's greatest ever keeper he has taken 265 dismissals which ranks him 9th on the all time list. He has made a test double ton and has a handy average of 37.52 with the bat.
- Shane Bond - One of the great hard luck stories that he missed so much cricket due to injury. However in the 18 tests he played he took 87 wickets at 22.09. Unplayable on his day his 147 wickets at 20.88 in One Day cricket is also excellent.
- Trent Boult - Fourth on the all time list of most wickets for NZ in test cricket and 7th for one day cricket. He is the only Kiwi to have taken two one day hatricks.
- Stephen Fleming - With 80 tests as captain he is easily New Zealand's longest serving captain. Won more than he lost. Sits in third place for most runs for New Zealand in test cricket. Has a highest test score of 274*.
- John Wright - An automatic selection for New Zealand in the 1980s Wright scored 12 centuries for his country. He excelled against India where he averaged 61.84
- Adam Parore - Ranks at 18th for most dismissals in test cricket and 2nd for New Zealand. A talented batsman Parore made two test tons.
- Andrew Jones - A solid number 3 bat for NZ in the 80s and early 90s Jones averaged 44.27 in test cricket, making 7 test tons.
- Tim Southee - Sits in third place for most wickets for New Zealand with 314 test wickets. Averages under 30 with the ball both home and away.
So I found the above on some rather interesting looking Indian site that popped up on my FB feed.
KW should be ahead of Crowe.
McCullum is ranked WAY too high.
Parore stands out like dogs balls and shouldn’t be there at all ( I’d put Wagner or Latham in or possibly Astle if you take his ODI record into consideration )
No glaring omissions I don’t think, did I miss anything ?
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@mn5 said in Other Cricket:
@mariner4life said in Other Cricket:
Anderson has played more tests in his 30s than nearly any NZer will play in their entire career
Also, my all time attack of Paddles, McGrath and my boy Curtly are all gonna play in that team until their retirement. Look at their fucking records!
Surprised to see the name Malcolm Marshall not being there but Wikipedia tells me he played his last test at 33.
Despite periods of being quite a shit team England are ALWAYS gonna have the luxury of five test series which we never get so not surprised in the slightest their guys play a shitload more than ours.
Both interesting points and I’d add in another. So much depends on who you play for. Take Marshall. Fantastic player with a great record but he was always competing for wickets with some other all time greats. Compare to Hadlee who pretty much carried the NZ attack for most of his time with much less competition for wickets. That would have an impact upon the numbers. Looking through the other end of the telescope though and concentrating on averages, if you have guys at the other end that are world class, that adds significant pressure on the batsmen which must help the averages overall.
To me this explains something of Hadlee’s aggregate of wickets but makes his average stick out like the dog’s bollocks.
It also makes you think how other bowlers or batsmen might have fared in the great WI or Aus sides. After all, if you never have to bowl to Lara or Richards/Ponting or Hayden and never have to face Ambrose and Marshall/Warne and McGrath, how much better would you look. Interest to ponder.
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And Root scores another ton. 6 in the year thus far. With another 5 tests plus this second innings to go, this could be some year for him. I think the record in a calendar year is 9?
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@catogrande said in Other Cricket:
@mn5 said in Other Cricket:
@mariner4life said in Other Cricket:
Anderson has played more tests in his 30s than nearly any NZer will play in their entire career
Also, my all time attack of Paddles, McGrath and my boy Curtly are all gonna play in that team until their retirement. Look at their fucking records!
Surprised to see the name Malcolm Marshall not being there but Wikipedia tells me he played his last test at 33.
Despite periods of being quite a shit team England are ALWAYS gonna have the luxury of five test series which we never get so not surprised in the slightest their guys play a shitload more than ours.
Both interesting points and I’d add in another. So much depends on who you play for. Take Marshall. Fantastic player with a great record but he was always competing for wickets with some other all time greats. Compare to Hadlee who pretty much carried the NZ attack for most of his time with much less competition for wickets. That would have an impact upon the numbers. Looking through the other end of the telescope though and concentrating on averages, if you have guys at the other end that are world class, that adds significant pressure on the batsmen which must help the averages overall.
To me this explains something of Hadlee’s aggregate of wickets but makes his average stick out like the dog’s bollocks.
It also makes you think how other bowlers or batsmen might have fared in the great WI or Aus sides. After all, if you never have to bowl to Lara or Richards/Ponting or Hayden and never have to face Ambrose and Marshall/Warne and McGrath, how much better would you look. Interest to ponder.
For sure. Joel Garner took 259 wickets in 58 tests which in itself isn’t a massive amount but check his average. Again, fighting for wickets with Marshall, Holding, Roberts, Croft etc ( as opposed to Chatfield, Morrison, L Cairns, Snedden etc ) meant I’m sure his career was littered with figures of 2-40, 3-60 etc. Just the 7 “Michelle’s” in that lot too but his average was 20.98 ! Absolutely exceptional stuff. If you’re picking a first change bowler in an all time team ( effectively an all time Wagner ) then Garner would surely be your go to guy.
@catogrande said in Other Cricket:
And Root scores another ton. 6 in the year thus far. With another 5 tests plus this second innings to go, this could be some year for him. I think the record in a calendar year is 9?
There was an article on Wisden saying Root is only the SECOND Englishman to average over 50 in tests while scoring more than 7000 test runs ( the legendary Walter Hammond is the other ).
Guess who else has done that ? Our boy KW. It’s funny when you delve into specific stats and things like that pop up. Greats like Sutcliffe, Hobbs, Hutton, Barrington etc might have averaged a bit more but it’s so awesome to think our little master has eclipsed them for the amount of runs he’s got.
Root is in rare form ( the recent contrast with Kohli is massive ) and has put his membership firmly back in the big four of modern batting greats.
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@booboo said in Other Cricket:
Been channel surfing through some old Aus v India on Foxtel from 1991/92.
I recall why we regarded the Aussie umpires as blatant cheats. It wasn't even close.
Thank goodness for:
- Neutral umpires
- DRS
Those 2 innovations have been fantastic.
With neutral umpires it means ICC employ the top 12 umpires to officiate in all tests (before covid). If using the old system and all 10 (actually, 12 now) test nations employed their own top 2 or 3 or 4 umpires for their tests - we are reaching down to somewhere between 30th up to possibly 48th umpire.
DRS has also sharpened the umpiring via self learning from hawkeye. The amount of outside leg stump, or too high LBWs you used to see were quite amazing. On the contra, too many straight ones used to be adjudged missing leg.
Also, the amount of incorrect inside edge to keepers has almost been eliminated. Almost always were noise from touching a pad or clothing.
Let alone, removing the home umpire aggro, tourists sense of victimisation etc. Umpires employed by their home board have a different incentive to those employed by ICC.
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@booboo said in Other Cricket:
Been channel surfing through some old Aus v India on Foxtel from 1991/92.
I recall why we regarded the Aussie umpires as blatant cheats. It wasn't even close.
Thank goodness for:
- Neutral umpires
- DRS
Yeah I dunno if we can completely blame the umpires on scoreboards like this
AUS vs NZ Cricket Scorecard, 2nd Test at Hobart, November 26 - 29, 1993
Get cricket scorecard of 2nd Test, AUS vs NZ, New Zealand tour of Australia 1993/94 at Bellerive Oval, Hobart dated November 26 - 29, 1993.
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@rotated said in Other Cricket:
So much wrong with that batting order Morrison at 9. Dipak as a test 5 (even though he was regularly batting 3 or 4 for Auckland in Shell Trophy). Harry playing as a specialist batsman at 6.
Oz only going in with two seamers too ! from memory this was just before Warne became amazing cos Tim May was certainly a pretty ordinary player…..
More than enough to skittle our pathetic line up though, Christ on a bike what dark days those were.
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@mn5 said in Other Cricket:
@rotated said in Other Cricket:
So much wrong with that batting order Morrison at 9. Dipak as a test 5 (even though he was regularly batting 3 or 4 for Auckland in Shell Trophy). Harry playing as a specialist batsman at 6.
Oz only going in with two seamers too ! from memory this was just before Warne became amazing cos Tim May was certainly a pretty ordinary player…..
More than enough to skittle our pathetic line up though, Christ on a bike what dark days those were.
I'm not even opening that. I don't need to be reminded.
Deadset, considering the Sports teams i have been "lucky" enough to support, i have fucking earned the All Blacks.
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@mariner4life said in Other Cricket:
@mn5 said in Other Cricket:
@rotated said in Other Cricket:
So much wrong with that batting order Morrison at 9. Dipak as a test 5 (even though he was regularly batting 3 or 4 for Auckland in Shell Trophy). Harry playing as a specialist batsman at 6.
Oz only going in with two seamers too ! from memory this was just before Warne became amazing cos Tim May was certainly a pretty ordinary player…..
More than enough to skittle our pathetic line up though, Christ on a bike what dark days those were.
I'm not even opening that. I don't need to be reminded.
Deadset, considering the Sports teams i have been "lucky" enough to support, i have fucking earned the All Blacks.
I think the Black Caps now is more apt…..I remember seeing so much of this on TV, it was actually before Australia became a massive world force too just to make things even more galling. Only three legends in that team…..
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@mn5 said in Other Cricket:
More than enough to skittle our pathetic line up though, Christ on a bike what dark days those were.
Once Crowe and Cairns went down after the first test that batting order became mighty short.
The pop gun pace attack sticks out for me; Watson, Su'a, de Grown, early Simon Doull all getting a run that series.
We the came home and legends like Michael Owens, Heath David and Kerry Walmsley fill in while Cairns and Nash are in and out with injury.
Hard times.
