Ireland vs All Blacks (2018)
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Poor Italy, they're going to get it next week. .
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Congrats Ireland, a very well coached team that played well and deserved the win. I'm happy for Ireland and it is great for world rugby. Bring on the World Cup.
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Worst game in black from Read. Hope he can regain form because there are no backup plans in the squad for him being replaced. Savea, Whitelock, and Squire are poor replacements for number eight.
We need more ball runners in the forwards so we can control the contact more often. No punch at all in the game.
Franks is completely selected on reputation these days. We can’t afford passengers.
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The ABs were done in the loose forwards. How can you say that Ardie has a great game. He was dominated. Ran around in the loose but in a test match you have to win the contact. We clearly didn’t. Agree with comments before, No 6 is an issue.
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@tordah there is an issue with both Smith and TJP at the base. Shades of Weepu mucking around and just slowing it up.
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Steven hanse out coached last 4 games in a row. First ever All Blacks coach to lose to Ireland twice!
Hansens other major flaws exposed.
- Read not world class anymore - Akira much more dangerous
- Aaron Smith - useless, how is he still in the All Blacks?
- Beauden Barrett - terribly shit at 10, Hansen is a fool if he thinks Barrett is a 10. You pair him up with Aaron Smith and you are going to lose games for sure.
- Liam Squire exposed as not test level standard
- Ben Smith is a fullback or dropped. He is not a winger.
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Akira Ioane says hello
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@canefan said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@westcoastie said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Wow.
Ireland clearly betterer today.
Tactics odd.
50-65min mark we were coming, then stopped. Maybe should've pushed for the corner instead of taking the penalty.
Retallick - that wasn't one of his best was it?
Read - is he cooked?
Whitelock
I think Perenara should've started - hes in better form than A.Smith.
We need something different in midfield - we're not making any metres there (even when SBW plays)If Nonu is serious about making a tilt, and he's 85% as good as 2015 or better, he'll walk in
I think u maybe correct
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Pretty simple for me, we lost this in the forwards. Get more direct, go up the guts and win the physical battle before we go wide
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@rotated said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
In the past two years they couldn't against the Lions, they couldn't trying to avenge a home loss to the Boks, couldn't against England and couldn't here. This team does not have that gear, underlined by two of the leaders having their worst games in black.
Similar pattern in those SA, England and Ireland games - the starting XV giving up a significant lead, the subs clawing in back. Against Ireland we didn't manage to score when we finally got some dominance in the last 20 minutes.
I'd like to think that the endless foolishness of the chip kick was keeping powder dry for next year - even if inadvertently!
Still, time for Fatguts to earn his paycheck - even if it's just making a 50 cent phone call to Wayne Smith!
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Tackles
Ireland 151-162 New Zealand.Ouch.
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@stargazer said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Poor Italy, they're going to get it next week. .
Flat track bullies?
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@tordah said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@chimoaus said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@taniwharugby said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
160 mins of rugby, 1 try.
This, when was the last time we failed to score a try in a match?
Against Australia a few years ago. I think Aussies had Harris kicking for them (the NZer)
There was that bloody 12 all draw wasn't there?
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@canefan said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Pretty simple for me, we lost this in the forwards. Get more direct, go up the guts and win the physical battle before we go wide
Not entirely true. The stupid kicking was done by backs (and Ardie) and the ABs' attack improved as soon as Mo'unga came on.
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@stargazer yeah Mo'unga for ten
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You don't mind losing if you play well or if it's a one-off like England in 2012, but that was one of the few times I've seen a game where it seemed not a single All Black stood out. Crotty & Goodhue were good on defence, and Ardie worked his socks off, but that was about all.
It was the senior players who need to look in the mirror. Too many dumb mistakes and discipline - and no clear thinking or leadership. Headless chickens when under pressure at times.
Some serious thinking needed before the next season
Edit: Not taking anything away from Ireland - they totally outplayed us. Deserved to win tonite.
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Last time we failed to score a try was last year against the Lions - losing 21-24 at Wellington - Barrett 7 penalty goals.
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@mooshld said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
I say it every time we play. But "Come on Boys I need this win" My misses and all my outlaws are Irish! I can dine off this for the next year. But if we lose, I cop it nonstop.
Ah shit, phone to silent for a month.
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@stargazer said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@canefan said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Pretty simple for me, we lost this in the forwards. Get more direct, go up the guts and win the physical battle before we go wide
Not entirely true. The stupid kicking was done by backs (and Ardie) and the ABs' attack improved as soon as Mo'unga came on.
The kicking was bad but often we weren't going forward when we did it. When we kept it for several phases up front we looked good only to make a silly error and let them off the hook. The first attack at the start of the game was typical
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And the panic ensues......
Better team won today hands down. Irish forwards a cut above ABs especially the loosies. Read and BBBR were really, really poor. Headless chook stuff when composure and tight test match strategy was needed. Actually, Ireland were such a better team tonight that I am not even fussed. Just nodded and clapped my hands. -
@crucial Agreed, they have looked flat. I thought this was the year that they wouldn't be flat on the EOYT considering a lot of our forwards had not played many minutes. Perhaps Shag is getting stale, not sure...but in the three big games this year (Pretoria, London, Dublin), we have looked out of sorts.
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Need to watch the Maori ABs game now; seeing two of our senior teams lose in a time span of a few hours is depressing. Need to see at least one of our teams win before I'm going to watch the back of my eyelids.
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taniwharugbyreplied to canefan on 17 Nov 2018, 21:29 last edited by taniwharugby 17 Nov 2018, 21:30
@canefan not to mention the kicking execution was poor, often to the defender with average chase.
These players dont become poor players overnight, but we have some seriously poor tactics this year, and I appreciate we might be trying different things, but what we are trying of late, aint working, so why are we persisiting?
A Smith & TJP, you are not fucking birds, saw both of them flapping thier wings and then were slow to react to the man running at them.
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@kev said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@rotated this was about physical contact rugby. Cane would have made a huge difference. Ardie is a different player and to me just doesn’t have that impact.
The tactics this year of kicking have let us down. We are not working on passing and running. When we need to the skills are not there.
Great Irish performance. Clinical.
Yeah I agree with this. Cane is a very good in the close exchanges.
There was at least one occasion when Ardie’s extra pace was needed in that Irish breakaway and he comes over and makes a crucial tackle. Cane wouldn’t have got that.
Tactically there were a few strange decisions. For instance the whole front row subbing isn’t one we usually see.
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Hope tiredness isn’t the reason. That was why we raffled away All Blacks caps against Japan, after all...
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@akan004 said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Looks like Moody was a much bigger loss than many on here thought. Karl still has a lot of work ons.
Karl off the bench still looks good to me. The coaches have said he is nowhere near where he needs to be physically, and that is to be expected when you consider where he was at the start of the year.
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@akan004 said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@crucial Agreed, they have looked flat. I thought this was the year that they wouldn't be flat on the EOYT considering a lot of our forwards had not played many minutes. Perhaps Shag is getting stale, not sure...but in the three big games this year (Pretoria, London, Dublin), we have looked out of sorts.
Maybe I'm kidding myself, but I just hope that the coaches didn't want to play the game they have in mind for the RWC, just because they don't want to give anything away.
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Joe Schmidt is quite the diplomat, humble and respectful. Get him on the blackline
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Thats it! We can't win the RWC now. The golden reign is over! Darkness descending upon our national game. Wait for the journos to go batshit...
This is what I find interesting...
In Test 1 v the BIL. We demonstrated a clinically brutal and efficient game - and then we put it away. We've brought it out in patches, the odd half, but thats it.
Some of the reason is Aaron Smith - go back and watch highlights of the AB's 2013-2016 - he used to skip to each ruck. Get it and fling accurate 20m passes and give us momentum - thats just not happening - except today, when TJ did it - what the hell is up with Smith?Theres so many little 1%-ers we're not nailing, 3 time in tests we've dropped the ball at the end chasing the W, Sam Cane v Australia, Dmac v SA, Retallick v Ireland today. Droppsies at the end don't lose a test but they're a sign we're a. fatigued, or b. not mentally getting it right - why aren't we getting the clarity we used to?
Was Richie such a standard setter and a freak in this regard - he was able to demand it?
I read a story on Read & Whitelock who say they operate differently and don't demand things quite the same - issue?I really don't believe Barrett is the issue. I think it lies with who is around him.
2016 he was incredible, when he was getting quick ball, and Crotty was on his shoulder.
I think hes shown in the last two tests he can control things and push us into parts of the field we want to be (not without saying, a few of his grubbers were a bit long v England)I like that we can scramble through game-plans to find one that works - I wonder though - are we getting a bit muddled because we have too many options?
We're a great chance to get the RWC three-peat, we'll win through our pool, quarters will be fine. As long as our coaches get clarity and we sharpen our focus over the summer.Lastly, what pisses me off, is that we just seem to be playing dumb & loose. The Irish showed the value of keeping possession. If you've got it, they can't score. And thats what happened today.
All of our starters can fuck-off for summer. They don't get to fix it vs. Italy. They can go let that niggly little rock fester all several months. -
@akan004 said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@crucial Agreed, they have looked flat. I thought this was the year that they wouldn't be flat on the EOYT considering a lot of our forwards had not played many minutes. Perhaps Shag is getting stale, not sure...but in the three big games this year (Pretoria, London, Dublin), we have looked out of sorts.
Agree totally. How can you say the first half kicking game is working as they have been when we have behind in just about every match. The disappointing thing tonight was our much vaunted skills let us down in pressure situation.
And at the end we looked like we didn’t know how to create space. Passing from side to side with passes going to the wrong person. -
If we look back at this poor run as the first sign of the end of the shag era, it has been a great ride. I think we still have the pieces, but we are in a funk at the moment and I'm not sure Foz and Scott McLeod can help provide him with suitable answers
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@canefan said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
If Nonu is serious about making a tilt, and he's 85% as good as 2015 or better, he'll walk in
Yeah, but who would Ma'a replace in our settled midfield combination?
(Irony alert)
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Just watched it.
So disappointing. Played right into their hands and made some shocking errors. One to forget for poor Brodie.
Thoroughly deserved Ireland.
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@bovidae said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@akan004 said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Looks like Moody was a much bigger loss than many on here thought. Karl l has a lot of work ons.
Karl off the bench still looks good to me. The coaches have said he is nowhere near where he needs to be physically, and that is to be expected when you consider where he was at the start of the year.
Karl looked buggered at the end, but consider where hes come from, and the games hes played. We've got depth in props. Our scrum gives us the platform we want 99% of the time, and often can disrupt others.
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The one massive positive from this game is that we have finally found a top class blindside flanker. Thought Scott Barrett was outstanding. Now we need to find his back up as Squire, Frizell and Fifita are not up to it.
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@stargazer while I think there is some truth in what you are saying, I think they needed to be able to adjust when it was evident the game plan wasnt working, rather than persist...so why we didnt respond and adjust our game is more concernign to me.
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@victor-meldrew said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@canefan said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
If Nonu is serious about making a tilt, and he's 85% as good as 2015 or better, he'll walk in
Yeah, but who would Ma'a replace in our settled midfield combination?
(Irony alert)
I think I'm leading the Ma'a fan club, he would definitely give us some midfield presence that we're missing. But he won't be the panacea.
Ma'a version 2.015 and Goodhue in the midfield would be amazing. Big question mark over whether Ma'a can come back like that. -
@akan004 said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
The one massive positive from this game is that we have finally found a top class blindside flanker. Thought Scott Barrett was outstanding. Now we need to find his back up as Squire, Frizell and Fifita are not up to it.
He's played really well this year at every opportunity hasn't he this year - and played a lot of minutes also. If Squire doesn't go down injured (and had been playing a bit better) I think we would've seen Scott on for Retallick or Whitelock.
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Victor Meldrewreplied to westcoastie on 17 Nov 2018, 21:41 last edited by Victor Meldrew 17 Nov 2018, 21:42
@westcoastie said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
I really don't believe Barrett is the issue. I think it lies with who is around him.
Good point. Carter & Cruden had stability outside them - almost always Nonu - plus a firing on all cylinders Aaron Smith,
BB had SBW, Crotty, ALB, Laumape - almost like a revolving door - and a strangely out-of-form Smith
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Unlike some, I'm not hitting the panic button yet. Still plenty of time to go until the RWC. Need to get things right during the shortened Rugby Championship though.
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