England vs All Blacks
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@gt12 here we go, appears it was changed last year to allow players to jump from the field of play and knock the ball back in.
But in another change, a player could jump from the field of play and knock the ball back after it has crossed the line. Such a player can also catch the ball after it has crossed the touchline and throw it back infield, often over the shoulder. This includes cases where the ball has crossed the touch-in-goal line as well.https://www.nzherald.co.nz/wanganui-chronicle/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503424&objectid=11825043
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@gt12 said in England vs All Blacks:
For all I know the guidelines were revised! But according to the info my handy iPhone rugby laws app, he’s played according to them.
Where’s @Damo - he’s good for these questions.
As stated below they changed the laws last year in one if the most needed law changes.
It is a lot simpler now. Ball is out if it touches a ground, player or something touching the.ground over the sideline (except that a player can't jump from in touch to knock it in).
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@majorrage said in England vs All Blacks:
On the plus side many of us on here have been pissed of about NH view on a ball being out and the mucking around if it (Conor Murray is superb at it).
It was getting absurd at one stage where halfbacks would move the ball back along the ground with their hands. Now they have to use their feet.
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@bovidae said in England vs All Blacks:
@majorrage said in England vs All Blacks:
On the plus side many of us on here have been pissed of about NH view on a ball being out and the mucking around if it (Conor Murray is superb at it).
It was getting absurd at one stage where halfbacks would move the ball back along the ground with their hands. Now they have to use their feet.
It still is absurd. Seriously the last guy in the ruck is at full stretch with his fingertip on the next blokes arse, and his leg as far back as is physically possible. There is a mere shoelace which is "keeping it in the ruck", when the ball is about 2 metres behind where the action is.
Not even exaggerating!
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@majorrage said in England vs All Blacks:
@bovidae said in England vs All Blacks:
@majorrage said in England vs All Blacks:
On the plus side many of us on here have been pissed of about NH view on a ball being out and the mucking around if it (Conor Murray is superb at it).
It was getting absurd at one stage where halfbacks would move the ball back along the ground with their hands. Now they have to use their feet.
It still is absurd. Seriously the last guy in the ruck is at full stretch with his fingertip on the next blokes arse, and his leg as far back as is physically possible. There is a mere shoelace which is "keeping it in the ruck", when the ball is about 2 metres behind where the action is.
Not even exaggerating!
Was it Andre Watson who said 'if a bird can shit on it, it is out'?
Obviously finding the right balance of law interpretation to create flow in the game (protect the halfback enough that the ball can be used by the attacking side) and stop sides taking the piss (as described above) still isn't right.
The issue has only been made worse by the unnecessary change to offside after England complained about Italy making them look silly. -
@crucial said in England vs All Blacks:
@majorrage said in England vs All Blacks:
@bovidae said in England vs All Blacks:
@majorrage said in England vs All Blacks:
On the plus side many of us on here have been pissed of about NH view on a ball being out and the mucking around if it (Conor Murray is superb at it).
It was getting absurd at one stage where halfbacks would move the ball back along the ground with their hands. Now they have to use their feet.
It still is absurd. Seriously the last guy in the ruck is at full stretch with his fingertip on the next blokes arse, and his leg as far back as is physically possible. There is a mere shoelace which is "keeping it in the ruck", when the ball is about 2 metres behind where the action is.
Not even exaggerating!
Was it Andre Watson who said 'if a bird can shit on it, it is out'?
That's been the prescribed "definition" for at least 20 years. I don't think Andre can claim that one!
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@crucial said in England vs All Blacks:
Was it Andre Watson who said 'if a bird can shit on it, it is out'?
Jonathan Kaplan.
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@billy-webb said in England vs All Blacks:
@crucial said in England vs All Blacks:
Was it Andre Watson who said 'if a bird can shit on it, it is out'?
Jonathan Kaplan.
Kaplan. The bloke who last half the worlds credibility as a ref (not I), and then the other half once he set himself up on twitter (including I).
I used to read it religiously, as I thought he was a good ref. Until I noticed a pattern which means he just became a fan.
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@gt12 said in England vs All Blacks:
Cully is on the Dmac bandwagon.
I may have to rewatch it to see how well Dmac did from first receiver, because he only talks about one example here:
That was my thoughts on the article as well. He uses one example to make a big call on.
I think all he has done is finally seen the reasons why the ABs want to go with a two playmaker system. It isn't for the old left/right theory it is for breaking rush defences. I don't think that BB is always forced to go infield and take the tackle, he is doing it to try and set a quick recycle that can be fed to DMac, who can then look for opportunities to step through and break the line.
At the moment they aren't overplaying that hand, not so much to keep powder dry for the future, but because they would rather perfect the move rather than put themselves under more pressure.
The move has risks as well, especially in the type of wet weather game we just had. If BB gets caught on the ground and DMac gets turned over then there a big spaces behind us to target with kicks or runs. -
I don't know about that risk, if Bender is there covering the back, and Ioane isn't terrible back there either.
I'd been hoping for Dmac at 15 as starter, so I'm pleased with the two playmakers, but so far I don't think it's really payed off, and they pulled him right at the time he usually starts having a big effect. I'd love it if that were strategic, but at some point, we'll see three playmakers finish a game. The problem with that is that one of Bender or Ioane needs to go (or Ioane to 13 and pull a midfielder).Actually, that doesn't sound too bad.
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That's a good point.
I watched the 62 minutes of DMac being on at 10 second skip intervals to find examples of him at first receiver, so may have missed one (possibly two), but it's a small sample size. I count six times he appeared at first receiver, mostly on the short side, sometimes with two options available (i.e., Barrett on the open). He certainly runs on to it more than Barrett, who tends to do his catch/pass, but it's a tiny sample size, so I'm hoping that Cully has seen something at training - or heard something from someone, to make such a big claim. Barrett can also make that run and that offload - in fact, I was wrong in my write up, as Barrett ran for the first time at the 33 minute mark, and tried the same inside step run that got Dmac away in the Cully example.
Anyway, I do think that Dmac looks dangerous at first receiver, but as you can see below, it's pretty rocks and diamonds - probably only reinforcing the view of some that he's better attacking from 15, rather than at 10. Another interesting thing is how often DMac shows up outside Barrett at second receiver (no notes sorry), where he also made one line break. I wonder why Cully didn't mention that, because I'm sure it happened more than 6 times.
My notes (Dmac at 1st receiver):
17:42 pass to SBW (short side)
17:52 pass to Goodhue (short side)
40:41 kick for Ioane (short side)
41:13 Cully’s example with the offload to B Smith
57:49 knocks it on then gets tossed around by Shields (we get the penalty)
60:48 kick charged by Farrell -
@bovidae said in England vs All Blacks:
The phrase I associate with Andre Watson was "if you are on the ground all you can do is breathe".
Yep. Coined the expression "lazy runner" too I think? Ali Williams v Boks? Was a lock IIRC. Pissed me off at the time because he really meant offside but in those days a retreating player was usually considered onside if retreating. Set a precedent for a law interpretation.
Actually a good one, that players must stay out of the way if they aren't in a position to be involved with the ball / player legally. That's just my memory of it, but does show the evolution of the way rugby is played and hence the changes being made to the touchline, for example, which opens up the opportunity for the player to do something clever / athletic and we get the ball in play more.For a curmudgeonly prick I actually like some of the changes.
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I think dmac is great at 15. He’s a genuine point of difference to every other team in world rugby. He’s also fearless in the air. I don’t have confidence in Naholo, Jordie is out of form, nms has been a poor choice this season. Selectors do need another choice at wing, maybe it will be bridge we see.
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