Springboks V All Blacks
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Finally found a minute to comment on this game. And what i really want to say is:
Fuck you All Blacks.
Seriously, when are you guys going to learn to lose?!
You spoiled a good game of rugby because after 10 years, you still haven't properly leant the skill of losing a rugby game.
note: the smiley face is just insurance before one of you takes the above comments all wrong...Bloody dramatic game. Gutted to be on the wrong side of the result. But probably balances the books a bit if one recalls Wellington. Still work to do for the Boks. But pleasingly they at least keep learning. And the big lesson of the day... you need a bench that delivers. BIG difference on the day.
@ Sam Kane: hope you make a swift and full recovery. You're a pain-in-the-ass to play against. Respect.
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@crucial said in Springboks V All Blacks:
Funny how it has taken this long for everyone to realise that BB is not the type of 10 we require for a tight game that needs control and measured tactics.
It has been being pointed out for years that he is not a game managing 10.I think the "defenders" mainly pointed out that he was still the best 10 in the country. Sops form fell off a cliff and he buggered off, DMac has no game management, and Mo'unga has only come of age as a consistent player at the top level this year. Otherwise the cupboard has been bare, and it's not like Beauden has struggled - when on form he's turned tight tests into blowouts.
Now we have a more traditional 10 in Mo'unga it will be interesting to see where Beauden fits in. Most (all?) on here agree he's not a perfect fit for 10 but he must be on the field as he's an absolute freak of a rugby player. I said earlier in the thread my preference is for Mo'unga to start at 10, Beauden 15 and DMac off the bench - I think that maximises all three players talents.
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@kirwan said in Springboks V All Blacks:
Other option is DMac on the wing instead of Naholo
Yes I would go for that. I prefer having a second fullback in the back three and Jordie's form has dipped.
He would still be involved in back field runs, picking out slower defenders, and he can drift into first receiver often. You would get most of the benefits of McKenzie without him having a huge amount of responsibility.
I wouldn't have him covering 10 from the wing, I would still have Mo'unga on the bench
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@chester-draws I'm not talking about individuals. I'm talking about a starting backline unit that includes all four "rookies".
Ioane will obviously start. I suspect Goodhue might get paired with one of SBW or Crotty. ALB will probably be on the bench.
Switching out the two time World Player of the Year for a guy with currently one test start (which was far from flawless)?
I don't see it. That would be a bigger call than ditching McCaw for Sam Cane!
Remember Shag fielded Carter, Nonu, Conrad Smith - guys all at the end of their test careers and with 300+ caps between them - and he was happy to run NMS alongside them.
And aside from these guys he had McCaw. He wanted to have Woodcock. He wheeled Kevvy Mealamu out of a rest home....
And at the end of the day, Danny Boy especially, showed why those years of experience were so valuable.
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@duluth Not out of the question. I do recall a test that Hansen went with Carter, Cruden and B. Barrett all in the team.
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@act-crusader If they're going down that path perhaps they should get Toddy Blackadder on the coaching staff?
No-one knows more about playing three first fives in a XV than Toddy - he might even have occasionally used four!
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Is BB starts at 10 then clearly Mo'unga is on the bench and I can't find room for D-Mac in my 22. And I think that's my preferred lineup TBH. I just don't trust D-Mac with any responsibility in a tight game, on either end of the park, whether at 10, 14 or 15.
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My only concern with dmac on the wing before seeing how it would go ,
Is if his lack of height could be exposed with the opposition putting in cross field kicks in one on one aerial battles .
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@voodoo said in Springboks V All Blacks:
Is BB starts at 10 then clearly Mo'unga is on the bench and I can't find room for D-Mac in my 22. And I think that's my preferred lineup TBH. I just don't trust D-Mac with any responsibility in a tight game, on either end of the park, whether at 10, 14 or 15.
Ah ha....could be because there's now 23? Shit you have been away a while!
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@bones said in Springboks V All Blacks:
@voodoo said in Springboks V All Blacks:
Is BB starts at 10 then clearly Mo'unga is on the bench and I can't find room for D-Mac in my 22. And I think that's my preferred lineup TBH. I just don't trust D-Mac with any responsibility in a tight game, on either end of the park, whether at 10, 14 or 15.
Ah ha....could be because there's now 23? Shit you have been away a while!
Bwaha, old habits! I'm also still using S-14 and the Tri Nations BTW!
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@kiwiinmelb said in Springboks V All Blacks:
My only concern with dmac on the wing before seeing how it would go ,
Is if his lack of height could be exposed with the opposition putting in cross field kicks in one on one aerial battles .
I think people make too much of the height thing - the guy can definitely get off the ground and is pretty accurate. It's not often you see a blazing break just because one guy was taller than the other, from a cross field kick. Maybe relevant if he's marking Folau, but even then, what happens? Cross field kicks are useful when the man on the outside is unmarked, not when they're having to compete for the ball.
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@voodoo said in Springboks V All Blacks:
@bones said in Springboks V All Blacks:
@voodoo said in Springboks V All Blacks:
Is BB starts at 10 then clearly Mo'unga is on the bench and I can't find room for D-Mac in my 22. And I think that's my preferred lineup TBH. I just don't trust D-Mac with any responsibility in a tight game, on either end of the park, whether at 10, 14 or 15.
Ah ha....could be because there's now 23? Shit you have been away a while!
Bwaha, old habits! I'm also still using S-14 and the Tri Nations BTW!
That's ok, we could discuss the NPC together.
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Been following the discussion on BB.
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Dmac won't start on the wing, hes behind Ioana (clearly), BFA & Naholo, not to mention Jordie Barrett seems to be favoured as a 15 before Dmac this year.
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I'd like to see more discussion about whether the issues lay more with Aaron Smith than Beaudy.
I feel that when DC played, it was clear who was the on-field general tactics wise. Richie's team management is next level compared to Kieran Read.
I think when we talk about AB leadership and driving the team, maybe we have too many chiefs at the moment. Aaron Smith did some dumb shit in that last test - I reckon if he got back to giving Beaudy the ball quicker and letting the 10 drive things we'd be better off. -
If Mo'unga starts 10, BB at 15, BFA at 14, and Ioane 11. Who shifts at the 60min mark to accomodate Dmac coming on? because I don't see where one of those starters makes way...
For me (if the RWC final was tomorrow and no-one was injured, its
10. BB
11. Ioane
14. Naholo
15. BFA
with Mo'unga on the bench.as for preferential halfback and midfield, leave it for another day....
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@bones said in Springboks V All Blacks:
@kiwiinmelb said in Springboks V All Blacks:
My only concern with dmac on the wing before seeing how it would go ,
Is if his lack of height could be exposed with the opposition putting in cross field kicks in one on one aerial battles .
I think people make too much of the height thing - the guy can definitely get off the ground and is pretty accurate. It's not often you see a blazing break just because one guy was taller than the other, from a cross field kick. Maybe relevant if he's marking Folau, but even then, what happens? Cross field kicks are useful when the man on the outside is unmarked, not when they're having to compete for the ball.
You are probably right , and they have no hesitation in playing nms there when his attacking game is on ,
dmac is certainly better in the air than him
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@voodoo As above, I reckon Beauden is locked in as the starting 10.
DMac vs Richie on the bench is more likely the call Hansen is considering.
I don't think that one is clear-cut - before last weekend, I think most people would have said the job was DMac's. Remember, he had a pretty good test starting at 10 vs. France and there were comments on here along the lines that he could clearly do things at 10 that Mo'unga couldn't.
And then a few weeks later, Beaudy scored four (actually five) tries vs Australia and the Beaudy vs Richie conversation was smothered by an industrial size feather pillow!
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@kiwiinmelb said in Springboks V All Blacks:
My only concern with dmac on the wing before seeing how it would go ,
Is if his lack of height could be exposed with the opposition putting in cross field kicks in one on one aerial battles .
Have him mark Folau..?
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@chris-b said in Springboks V All Blacks:
I don't think that one is clear-cut - before last weekend, I think most people would have said the job was DMac's. Remember, he had a pretty good test starting at 10 vs. France and there were comments on here along the lines that he could clearly do things at 10 that Mo'unga couldn't.
Some common sense. I reckon before DMac went home he would have been on the bench in Arg, as he has been most of the year, and probably in Pretoria too. It's good to have options but we might have to wait until the Eng and Irish tests to see how the coaches intend to maximise the talent available.
