World & NZ Rugby Awards 2018
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@stargazer said in World, NZ & other Rugby Awards 2018:
@antipodean said in World, NZ & other Rugby Awards 2018:
@stargazer said in World, NZ & other Rugby Awards 2018:
@antipodean It's not odd that he was nominated, but he wasn't the only one bringing a team back to the top, and winning back-to-back titles in Super Rugby should have topped it IMO.
Going back to back in Super Rugby has been done before. And given the shit state of the competition, I don't consider it that much of an achievement.
Now if Alama can't take credit because other people were involved, why should Razor?
I don't understand this comment. I didn't make, nor imply it.
Robertson changed the team from a team that couldn't win the SR competition for years, into a team that won it back-to-back in his first and second year as an SR coach. I rate Super Rugby higher than Mitre 10 Cup, so that's why I consider that a greater achievement. But having said that, I'm happy for Alama Ieremia, he did an awesome job with Auckland.
@stargazer said in World, NZ & other Rugby Awards 2018:
@antipodean said in World, NZ & other Rugby Awards 2018:
@stargazer said in World, NZ & other Rugby Awards 2018:
@antipodean It's not odd that he was nominated, but he wasn't the only one bringing a team back to the top, and winning back-to-back titles in Super Rugby should have topped it IMO.
Going back to back in Super Rugby has been done before. And given the shit state of the competition, I don't consider it that much of an achievement.
Now if Alana can't take credit because other people were involved, why should Razor?
I don't understand this comment. I didn't make, nor imply it.
That's what I inferred when you said "he wasn't the only one bringing a team back to the top".
Robertson changed the team from a team that couldn't win the SR competition for years, into a team that won it back-to-back in his first and second year as an SR coach. I rate Super Rugby higher than Mitre 10 Cup, so that's why I consider that a greater achievement.
Alama took a team that hadn't won a competition for longer. Normally I'd rate Razor's achievement higher, but Super Rugby is shit.
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@stargazer thanks for the coverage some interesting results..!
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@antipodean said in World, NZ & other Rugby Awards 2018:
@stargazer said in World, NZ & other Rugby Awards 2018:
@antipodean said in World, NZ & other Rugby Awards 2018:
@stargazer said in World, NZ & other Rugby Awards 2018:
@antipodean It's not odd that he was nominated, but he wasn't the only one bringing a team back to the top, and winning back-to-back titles in Super Rugby should have topped it IMO.
Going back to back in Super Rugby has been done before. And given the shit state of the competition, I don't consider it that much of an achievement.
Now if Alama can't take credit because other people were involved, why should Razor?
I don't understand this comment. I didn't make, nor imply it.
Robertson changed the team from a team that couldn't win the SR competition for years, into a team that won it back-to-back in his first and second year as an SR coach. I rate Super Rugby higher than Mitre 10 Cup, so that's why I consider that a greater achievement. But having said that, I'm happy for Alama Ieremia, he did an awesome job with Auckland.
@stargazer said in World, NZ & other Rugby Awards 2018:
@antipodean said in World, NZ & other Rugby Awards 2018:
@stargazer said in World, NZ & other Rugby Awards 2018:
@antipodean It's not odd that he was nominated, but he wasn't the only one bringing a team back to the top, and winning back-to-back titles in Super Rugby should have topped it IMO.
Going back to back in Super Rugby has been done before. And given the shit state of the competition, I don't consider it that much of an achievement.
Now if Alana can't take credit because other people were involved, why should Razor?
I don't understand this comment. I didn't make, nor imply it.
That's what I inferred when you said "he wasn't the only one bringing a team back to the top".
Robertson changed the team from a team that couldn't win the SR competition for years, into a team that won it back-to-back in his first and second year as an SR coach. I rate Super Rugby higher than Mitre 10 Cup, so that's why I consider that a greater achievement.
Alama took a team that hadn't won a competition for longer. Normally I'd rate Razor's achievement higher, but Super Rugby is shit.
I meant that Robertson did it, too, at SR level.
I've heard people often say that M10 Cup is broken, by the way.
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@stargazer said in World, NZ & other Rugby Awards 2018:
Hmmm, don't agree with this one either.
Risi Pouri-Lane won two international gold medals this year, one as captain of the U18 Baby Ferns at the Youth Olympics.
In fact Christie was so good he led his team to WC success. Oh, that's right!
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@majorrage I don't think it's PC bollocks. The reason for the separate women's award was that the other awards were traditionally only awarded to men. So it's existence is historical and IMO - initially - justified. But I agree, that now that female players can finally also win the other awards, there's no reason anymore to maintain that separate award for female players.
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@stargazer said in World, NZ & other Rugby Awards 2018:
@majorrage I don't think it's PC bollocks. The reason for the separate women's award was that the other awards were traditionally only awarded to men. So it's existence is historical and IMO - initially - justified. But I agree, that now that female players can finally also win the other awards, there's no reason anymore to maintain that separate award for female players.
Ok, so whose the All Blacks player of the year then?
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@majorrage You didn't read my last sentence?
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@stargazer Yes. But you are saying there is no need for the woman's award.
My angle is different - I have no problems with the womans' award, but then there also needs to be a men's award if woman can be in the defacto mens award.
The fact that our premier sports team doesn't have an official "player of the year" award leaves me dumbfounded.
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@majorrage said in World, NZ & other Rugby Awards 2018:
@stargazer Yes. But you are saying there is no need for the woman's award.
My angle is different - I have no problems with the womans' award, but then there also needs to be a men's award if woman can be in the defacto mens award.
The fact that our premier sports team doesn't have an official "player of the year" award leaves me dumbfounded.
There still is a de facto men's award?
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@stargazer said in World, NZ & other Rugby Awards 2018:
@majorrage said in World, NZ & other Rugby Awards 2018:
@stargazer Yes. But you are saying there is no need for the woman's award.
My angle is different - I have no problems with the womans' award, but then there also needs to be a men's award if woman can be in the defacto mens award.
The fact that our premier sports team doesn't have an official "player of the year" award leaves me dumbfounded.
There still is a de facto men's award?
Kel Tremain. Due to lack of seperate mens' award, this has been the defacto, no?
Or is it just accepted by all 'n sundry that we can have a womans, but not a men's.
If so, then I stand by my PC bollox call.
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@majorrage I think Kel Tremain Award was a de facto men's award just like all other awards, except the women's award(s), because they simply never nominated women. Now that that's no longer the case, it's no longer a de facto men's award. The question is, is there really still a need for separate men's and women's awards? I'd say, drop the women's award. That award is historical and there's no need for it anymore.
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@stargazer imagine the uproar if/when a woman doesn't win the award for a while.
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@stargazer said in World, NZ & other Rugby Awards 2018:
@majorrage I think Kel Tremain Award was a de facto men's award just like all other awards, except the women's award(s), because they simply never nominated women. Now that that's no longer the case, it's no longer a de facto men's award. The question is, is there really still a need for separate men's and women's awards? I'd say, drop the women's award. That award is historical and there's no need for it anymore.
Cool. I don't agree on your solution, but all good.
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@bones I don't expect much uproar if the nominations/winners (and non-nominations/winners) are deserved and not too controversial. Except maybe for the Tom Christie nomination, I think they got it more or less right this year. And last year, too. Why would it be different in future?
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Seriously this place is getting stupid, posters seem to want get as offended by anything as much as what they say feminist, snowflakes etc do ... rather than PC bollocks when NZR created the Woman's award they probably didn't even think a woman would ever win the Kel Tremain trophy. It's just a historical anomaly.
I expect Steve Tew and some of his cronies are probably sitting there thinking we should probably have an overall mens award too moving forward rather than sitting around congratulating themselves on being PC.
