World & NZ Rugby Awards 2018
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@stargazer said in World, NZ & other Rugby Awards 2018:
Hmmm, don't agree with this one either.
Risi Pouri-Lane won two international gold medals this year, one as captain of the U18 Baby Ferns at the Youth Olympics.
In fact Christie was so good he led his team to WC success. Oh, that's right!
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@majorrage I don't think it's PC bollocks. The reason for the separate women's award was that the other awards were traditionally only awarded to men. So it's existence is historical and IMO - initially - justified. But I agree, that now that female players can finally also win the other awards, there's no reason anymore to maintain that separate award for female players.
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@stargazer said in World, NZ & other Rugby Awards 2018:
@majorrage I don't think it's PC bollocks. The reason for the separate women's award was that the other awards were traditionally only awarded to men. So it's existence is historical and IMO - initially - justified. But I agree, that now that female players can finally also win the other awards, there's no reason anymore to maintain that separate award for female players.
Ok, so whose the All Blacks player of the year then?
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@majorrage You didn't read my last sentence?
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@stargazer Yes. But you are saying there is no need for the woman's award.
My angle is different - I have no problems with the womans' award, but then there also needs to be a men's award if woman can be in the defacto mens award.
The fact that our premier sports team doesn't have an official "player of the year" award leaves me dumbfounded.
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@majorrage said in World, NZ & other Rugby Awards 2018:
@stargazer Yes. But you are saying there is no need for the woman's award.
My angle is different - I have no problems with the womans' award, but then there also needs to be a men's award if woman can be in the defacto mens award.
The fact that our premier sports team doesn't have an official "player of the year" award leaves me dumbfounded.
There still is a de facto men's award?
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@stargazer said in World, NZ & other Rugby Awards 2018:
@majorrage said in World, NZ & other Rugby Awards 2018:
@stargazer Yes. But you are saying there is no need for the woman's award.
My angle is different - I have no problems with the womans' award, but then there also needs to be a men's award if woman can be in the defacto mens award.
The fact that our premier sports team doesn't have an official "player of the year" award leaves me dumbfounded.
There still is a de facto men's award?
Kel Tremain. Due to lack of seperate mens' award, this has been the defacto, no?
Or is it just accepted by all 'n sundry that we can have a womans, but not a men's.
If so, then I stand by my PC bollox call.
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@majorrage I think Kel Tremain Award was a de facto men's award just like all other awards, except the women's award(s), because they simply never nominated women. Now that that's no longer the case, it's no longer a de facto men's award. The question is, is there really still a need for separate men's and women's awards? I'd say, drop the women's award. That award is historical and there's no need for it anymore.
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@stargazer imagine the uproar if/when a woman doesn't win the award for a while.
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@stargazer said in World, NZ & other Rugby Awards 2018:
@majorrage I think Kel Tremain Award was a de facto men's award just like all other awards, except the women's award(s), because they simply never nominated women. Now that that's no longer the case, it's no longer a de facto men's award. The question is, is there really still a need for separate men's and women's awards? I'd say, drop the women's award. That award is historical and there's no need for it anymore.
Cool. I don't agree on your solution, but all good.
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@bones I don't expect much uproar if the nominations/winners (and non-nominations/winners) are deserved and not too controversial. Except maybe for the Tom Christie nomination, I think they got it more or less right this year. And last year, too. Why would it be different in future?
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Seriously this place is getting stupid, posters seem to want get as offended by anything as much as what they say feminist, snowflakes etc do ... rather than PC bollocks when NZR created the Woman's award they probably didn't even think a woman would ever win the Kel Tremain trophy. It's just a historical anomaly.
I expect Steve Tew and some of his cronies are probably sitting there thinking we should probably have an overall mens award too moving forward rather than sitting around congratulating themselves on being PC.
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@nepia said in World, NZ & other Rugby Awards 2018:
Seriously this place is getting stupid, posters seem to want get as offended by anything as much as what they say feminist, snowflakes etc do ... rather than PC bollocks when NZR created the Woman's award they probably didn't even think a woman would ever win the Kel Tremain trophy. It's just a historical anomaly.
I expect Steve Tew and some of his cronies are probably sitting there thinking we should probably have an overall mens award too moving forward rather than sitting around congratulating themselves on being PC.
Whose offended?
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@nepia said in World, NZ & other Rugby Awards 2018:
Seriously this place is getting stupid, posters seem to want get as offended by anything as much as what they say feminist, snowflakes etc do ... rather than PC bollocks when NZR created the Woman's award they probably didn't even think a woman would ever win the Kel Tremain trophy. It's just a historical anomaly.
I expect Steve Tew and some of his cronies are probably sitting there thinking we should probably have an overall mens award too moving forward rather than sitting around congratulating themselves on being PC.
Surely NZRU prizegiving starts with a best All Black (or similar) award?
It seems completely reasonable to ask what motivates the NZRU to get to a point where they put on a prizegiving with 20+ awards and fail to acknowledge the main (only?) breadwinner of the union.
Not to take anything away from the winner of the best Maori women's 7's domestic referee's coach in a supporting role - she had a great season.
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@nepia said in World, NZ & other Rugby Awards 2018:
I expect Steve Tew and some of his cronies are probably sitting there thinking we should probably have an overall mens award too moving forward rather than sitting around congratulating themselves on being PC.
They created the National team and coach award for the first time so I'm sure NZR will make more changes in the future.
I would have voted for Sam Whitelock for the Kel Tremain but he didn't even make the final cut!
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@stargazer said in World, NZ & other Rugby Awards 2018:
@antipodean It's not odd that he was nominated, but he wasn't the only one bringing a team back to the top, and winning back-to-back titles in Super Rugby should have topped it IMO.
Only if you view everything through crusaders tinted glasses like you do.
Alama took a team that was getting thrashed by North Harbour just last season to beating Canterbury twice, and dropping only one game.
It was a remarkable turnaround and he deserves the plaudits.
Razor has done very well with Crusaders, much better than Blackadder, but he took a good team to a very good team in a very weak competition.
Mitre 10 is a lower standard, but there isn’t as much variability between teams. No Aussies to thrash for example.
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@kirwan said in World, NZ & other Rugby Awards 2018:
@stargazer said in World, NZ & other Rugby Awards 2018:
@antipodean It's not odd that he was nominated, but he wasn't the only one bringing a team back to the top, and winning back-to-back titles in Super Rugby should have topped it IMO.
Only if you view everything through crusaders tinted glasses like you do.
Alama took a team that was getting thrashed by North Harbour just last season to beating Canterbury twice, and dropping only one game.
It was a remarkable turnaround and he deserves the plaudits.
Razor has done very well with Crusaders, much better than Blackadder, but he took a good team to a very good team in a very weak competition.
Mitre 10 is a lower standard, but there isn’t as much variability between teams. No Aussies to thrash for example.
Says someone who looks at everything through Acukland and Blues tinted glasses.
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@stargazer said in World, NZ & other Rugby Awards 2018:
@kirwan said in World, NZ & other Rugby Awards 2018:
@stargazer said in World, NZ & other Rugby Awards 2018:
@antipodean It's not odd that he was nominated, but he wasn't the only one bringing a team back to the top, and winning back-to-back titles in Super Rugby should have topped it IMO.
Only if you view everything through crusaders tinted glasses like you do.
Alama took a team that was getting thrashed by North Harbour just last season to beating Canterbury twice, and dropping only one game.
It was a remarkable turnaround and he deserves the plaudits.
Razor has done very well with Crusaders, much better than Blackadder, but he took a good team to a very good team in a very weak competition.
Mitre 10 is a lower standard, but there isn’t as much variability between teams. No Aussies to thrash for example.
Says someone who looks at everything through Acukland and Blues tinted glasses.
To be fair, it's been hard to see through those for quite some time due to all the cracks!
I agree with @Kirwan Much easier to take a good team and culture and keep them going a second year than sweep up the bones off the floor and then go and win the comp
