NH International Rugby
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@victor-meldrew said in NH International Rugby:
@booboo said in NH International Rugby:
@bones said in NH International Rugby:
@sparky said in NH International Rugby:
Another dreadful interview by this horrible person. Shame, I thought the BBC coverage of this game otherwise was faultless.
Sonja McLaughlin? Turd.
Beanie. Anti wimnim bully.
Sonja McLaughlan is to post-match interviews what Miles Harrison is to live commentaries.
You wouldn't want to car pool with them.
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Victor Meldrewreplied to Bones on 2 Mar 2021, 11:50 last edited by Victor Meldrew 2 Mar 2021, 11:50
@bones said in NH International Rugby:
@victor-meldrew said in NH International Rugby:
@booboo said in NH International Rugby:
@bones said in NH International Rugby:
@sparky said in NH International Rugby:
Another dreadful interview by this horrible person. Shame, I thought the BBC coverage of this game otherwise was faultless.
Sonja McLaughlin? Turd.
Beanie. Anti wimnim bully.
Sonja McLaughlan is to post-match interviews what Miles Harrison is to live commentaries.
You wouldn't want to car pool with them.
I'm staggered broadcasters actually stick with people like them TBH. They are just so bad at what they do.
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@booboo said
@GibbonRib "joined 2 days ago"?
Are ou the username previously known as "GibbonRib"? Welcome back.
That'll be me. Forgot my password, and changed email address, so I figured it was easier to make a new account.
Am I remembered? That's a worry.
There's a dodgy pub near where I live, I rarely go there. But about once a year, after a night out when my mates have gone home and I should too, I wander in on the way home for a couple more drinks and to talk some crap. I have pretty much the same relationship with that pub as this forum.
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@booboo said in NH International Rugby:
@gibbonrib said in NH International Rugby:
@kruse said in NH International Rugby:
@pakman said in NH International Rugby:
@bones said in NH International Rugby:
@junior it went forward. Or was he standing still?
I can’t be assed to check, but it hit the ground closer to English goal line than when it left his hands can we all agree it was forward?
It depends... are knock-ons defined the same way as forward-passes are now?
ie: "forward out of the hands"
If yes - then I can understand the decision.
If not - then I can not.Nope, I'm pretty sure it's still defined as "towards the opposition's dead ball line"
The critical part of the law, as I read it, is whether the player has "lost possession of the ball" (not "lost control"). If a player drops it they haven't necessarily lost possession (otherwise just about every kick from hand would be a knock on). Posession is defined as "a team or individual in control of the ball or who are attempting to bring it under control". So you could argue that LRZ was still attempting to bring the ball under control at least until it hit his leg, in which case no knock-on.
Having said that, I was pretty surprised it was allowed to stand..
@GibbonRib "joined 2 days ago"?
Are ou the username previously known as "GibbonRib"? Welcome back.
You're like an Australian Sherlock Holmes. How did you know gibbonrib was gibbonrib?
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Victor Meldrewreplied to Bones on 2 Mar 2021, 12:32 last edited by Victor Meldrew 2 Mar 2021, 12:33
@bones said in NH International Rugby:
@booboo said in NH International Rugby:
@gibbonrib said in NH International Rugby:
@kruse said in NH International Rugby:
@pakman said in NH International Rugby:
@bones said in NH International Rugby:
@junior it went forward. Or was he standing still?
I can’t be assed to check, but it hit the ground closer to English goal line than when it left his hands can we all agree it was forward?
It depends... are knock-ons defined the same way as forward-passes are now?
ie: "forward out of the hands"
If yes - then I can understand the decision.
If not - then I can not.Nope, I'm pretty sure it's still defined as "towards the opposition's dead ball line"
The critical part of the law, as I read it, is whether the player has "lost possession of the ball" (not "lost control"). If a player drops it they haven't necessarily lost possession (otherwise just about every kick from hand would be a knock on). Posession is defined as "a team or individual in control of the ball or who are attempting to bring it under control". So you could argue that LRZ was still attempting to bring the ball under control at least until it hit his leg, in which case no knock-on.
Having said that, I was pretty surprised it was allowed to stand..
@GibbonRib "joined 2 days ago"?
Are ou the username previously known as "GibbonRib"? Welcome back.
You're like an Australian Sherlock Holmes. How did you know gibbonrib was gibbonrib?
"Capital, Watson! You are coming along nicely."
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@booboo said in NH International Rugby:
@bones said in NH International Rugby:
@sparky said in NH International Rugby:
Another dreadful interview by this horrible person. Shame, I thought the BBC coverage of this game otherwise was faultless.
Sonja McLaughlin? Turd.
Beanie. Meanie. Anti wimnim bully.Auto correct
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@bones said in NH International Rugby:
@booboo said in NH International Rugby:
@gibbonrib said in NH International Rugby:
@kruse said in NH International Rugby:
@pakman said in NH International Rugby:
@bones said in NH International Rugby:
@junior it went forward. Or was he standing still?
I can’t be assed to check, but it hit the ground closer to English goal line than when it left his hands can we all agree it was forward?
It depends... are knock-ons defined the same way as forward-passes are now?
ie: "forward out of the hands"
If yes - then I can understand the decision.
If not - then I can not.Nope, I'm pretty sure it's still defined as "towards the opposition's dead ball line"
The critical part of the law, as I read it, is whether the player has "lost possession of the ball" (not "lost control"). If a player drops it they haven't necessarily lost possession (otherwise just about every kick from hand would be a knock on). Posession is defined as "a team or individual in control of the ball or who are attempting to bring it under control". So you could argue that LRZ was still attempting to bring the ball under control at least until it hit his leg, in which case no knock-on.
Having said that, I was pretty surprised it was allowed to stand..
@GibbonRib "joined 2 days ago"?
Are ou the username previously known as "GibbonRib"? Welcome back.
You're like an Australian Sherlock Holmes. How did you know gibbonrib was gibbonrib?
Who else is going to call themself @GibbonRib
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@gibbonrib said in NH International Rugby:
There's a dodgy pub near where I live, I rarely go there. But about once a year, after a night out when my mates have gone home and I should too, I wander in on the way home for a couple more drinks and to talk some crap. I have pretty much the same relationship with that pub as this forum.
that's beautiful, and i have never been prouder than to have this forum described as a dodgy pub
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@sparky said in NH International Rugby:
I like that. Can't see how anyone can say the first try was bogus after watching that.
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@gibbonrib yeah it certainly was very different than what you thought you saw live
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@gibbonrib that's brilliantly done by Wales when you get to see that "extra" footage.
Not sure I buy blaming Itoje for the Sheedy break though...
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@bones said in NH International Rugby:
@gibbonrib that's brilliantly done by Wales when you get to see that "extra" footage.
Not sure I buy blaming Itoje for the Sheedy break though...
Yeah, really smart play. Just a shame the TV coverage didn't properly show out, and went for the outrage angle instead
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@gibbonrib that fucking Sonja McLaughlin at it again
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Karma's a bitch Owen
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@gibbonrib said in NH International Rugby:
@sparky said in NH International Rugby:
I like that. Can't see how anyone can say the first try was bogus after watching that.
Bravo Wales.
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@gibbonrib said in NH International Rugby:
@sparky said in NH International Rugby:
I like that. Can't see how anyone can say the first try was bogus after watching that.
Something of a different perspective but still a shit show. Did England have enough time to get the message across? Of course. Did some of their guys fan out? Yes. Did the ref tell England that time was going back on? No. Did he tell Biggar that time was going on? Yes. Did he check that England were ready for time going back on? No.
Though I will concede that the last point is not a required action but it is one that is generally accepted.
However, time to move on. Neither of the two disputed tries were ultimately the reason we lost. Dumb and indisciplined play from us. Intelligent play from the Taffs. A deserved win (and come to that a deserved loss).
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@catogrande said in NH International Rugby:
Did the ref tell England that time was going back on
Errr...he blew his whistle and signalled time on?
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@mikethesnow did the ref signal time on?
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@bones said in NH International Rugby:
@mikethesnow did the ref signal time on?
Nope.
That's what makes it even more glorious.
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@bones said in NH International Rugby:
@catogrande said in NH International Rugby:
Did the ref tell England that time was going back on
Errr...he blew his whistle and signalled time on?
Errr... Biggar asked when time is back on, Ref said time is on to Biggar. Did not check if England were ready. Blew his whistle and then called "Time is on" when the ball was in flight.
Anyone can pick a hole here or there in the timeline but taken in whole it was a dreadful piece of refereeing and one that you'd all be spewing about if your team were on the arse end of it
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Why on earth would the ref check if England are ready? He should check that they have had enough time to be ready, and he should call time on so both teams can hear, but the team that gave away the penalty don't get to decide when they're ready to play again.
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@catogrande England were meandering back into place and had definitely finished talking. It's not for the ref to tell them to hurry up and get in place.
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@gibbonrib said in NH International Rugby:
Why on earth would the ref check if England are ready?
Because he has specifically told their captain to go and talk to them
He should check that they have had enough time to be ready, and he should call time on so both teams can hear,
Which he didn't do. He told Biggar time on, whistled and then called time on in general when Biggar's kick was already in flight.
but the team that gave away the penalty don't get to decide when they're ready to play again.>
Agreed but that is not in argument
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@bones said in NH International Rugby:
@catogrande England were meandering back into place and had definitely finished talking. It's not for the ref to tell them to hurry up and get in place.
Agreed but neither of those points are in argument. England were lackadaisical without doubt. However the ref tells you to talk to your team, he then tells you time is on which he didn't do in anyway near a correct manner.
You do know he's come out and admitted to making a mistake here right?
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@catogrande said in NH International Rugby:
@bones said in NH International Rugby:
@catogrande England were meandering back into place and had definitely finished talking. It's not for the ref to tell them to hurry up and get in place.
Agreed but neither of those points are in argument. England were lackadaisical without doubt. However the ref tells you to talk to your team, he then tells you time is on which he didn't do in anyway near a correct manner.
You do know he's come out and admitted to making a mistake here right?
It's pretty damn near to a correct manner. England fucked up and thought a shot at goal was being taken, so fucked around after they'd finished chatting and decided to have a drink/walk. The ref can clearly see that so calls time on as the chat is over. If he's told you to go talk to your team and you've finished, you should expect time to be called back on.
The left side defence has the right idea.
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@bones Mate, I think we'll have to agree to disagree as we are constantly arguing different points, in true Fern tradition I might add.
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@catogrande said in NH International Rugby:
@bones said in NH International Rugby:
@catogrande England were meandering back into place and had definitely finished talking. It's not for the ref to tell them to hurry up and get in place.
Agreed but neither of those points are in argument. England were lackadaisical without doubt. However the ref tells you to talk to your team, he then tells you time is on which he didn't do in anyway near a correct manner.
You do know he's come out and admitted to making a mistake here right?
No I don't. I know that Jutge has given a rather rambling, unofficial statement suggesting that he said he'd made some errors, but nothing specific and nothing from Gauzere.
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@catogrande said in NH International Rugby:
@gibbonrib said in NH International Rugby:
Why on earth would the ref check if England are ready?
Because he has specifically told their captain to go and talk to them
He should check that they have had enough time to be ready, and he should call time on so both teams can hear,
Which he didn't do. He told Biggar time on, whistled and then called time on in general when Biggar's kick was already in flight.
but the team that gave away the penalty don't get to decide when they're ready to play again.>
Agreed but that is not in argument
If you're saying that the ref has to wait until the infringing side are ready then you're saying that the infringing side get to decide when he can restart by going as slow as they like.
He gave them plenty of time, a few of them used it, the rest faffed around and cost their team 7 points.
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@catogrande said in NH International Rugby:
@gibbonrib said in NH International Rugby:
@sparky said in NH International Rugby:
I like that. Can't see how anyone can say the first try was bogus after watching that.
Something of a different perspective but still a shit show. Did England have enough time to get the message across? Of course. Did some of their guys fan out? Yes. Did the ref tell England that time was going back on? No. Did he tell Biggar that time was going on? Yes. Did he check that England were ready for time going back on? No.
Farrell had stopped speaking to his players. Ten seconds later the ref blew his whistle and said time on. May had jogged to his wing. The Welsh water carriers were moving from the field of play. Watson and Ford were incredibly slow cover the wing. The kick was to perfection exposing their tardiness. Seeing all the angles, nowt wrong with that try and what the ref did.
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I reckon all these retired English players moaning about it on TV have been spending too much time watching their kids playing under 8s with referee-coaches.
"Anthony. Anthony! Pay attention. You're the wing yeah, you should should standing over there near the line. Bit further...little bit more...that's it, well done. No, you need to turn around, face towards the boy with ball so you can see. That's right. OK, everyone ready now? Great, let's play! Time on"
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@gibbonrib said in NH International Rugby:
@catogrande said in NH International Rugby:
@bones said in NH International Rugby:
@catogrande England were meandering back into place and had definitely finished talking. It's not for the ref to tell them to hurry up and get in place.
Agreed but neither of those points are in argument. England were lackadaisical without doubt. However the ref tells you to talk to your team, he then tells you time is on which he didn't do in anyway near a correct manner.
You do know he's come out and admitted to making a mistake here right?
No I don't. I know that Jutge has given a rather rambling, unofficial statement suggesting that he said he'd made some errors, but nothing specific and nothing from Gauzere.
Less rambling and more quite direct.The actual quote:
Joël Jutge, World Rugby’s Head of Match Officials, says Pascal Gauzere has acknowledged to him that he got both contentious first-half incidents wrong in Saturday’s Six Nations clash between Wales and England.
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@gibbonrib said in NH International Rugby:
@catogrande said in NH International Rugby:
@gibbonrib said in NH International Rugby:
Why on earth would the ref check if England are ready?
Because he has specifically told their captain to go and talk to them
He should check that they have had enough time to be ready, and he should call time on so both teams can hear,
Which he didn't do. He told Biggar time on, whistled and then called time on in general when Biggar's kick was already in flight.
but the team that gave away the penalty don't get to decide when they're ready to play again.>
Agreed but that is not in argument
If you're saying that the ref has to wait until the infringing side are ready then you're saying that the infringing side get to decide when he can restart by going as slow as they like.
Actually I have specifically said, that I haven't said that. If that makes sense?
He gave them plenty of time, a few of them used it, the rest faffed around and cost their team 7 points.>
That is not the point in contention.
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@sparky said in NH International Rugby:
@catogrande said in NH International Rugby:
@gibbonrib said in NH International Rugby:
@sparky said in NH International Rugby:
I like that. Can't see how anyone can say the first try was bogus after watching that.
Something of a different perspective but still a shit show. Did England have enough time to get the message across? Of course. Did some of their guys fan out? Yes. Did the ref tell England that time was going back on? No. Did he tell Biggar that time was going on? Yes. Did he check that England were ready for time going back on? No.
Farrell had stopped speaking to his players. Ten seconds later the ref blew his whistle and said time on. May had jogged to his wing. The Welsh water carriers were moving from the field of play. Watson and Ford were incredibly slow cover the wing. The kick was to perfection exposing their tardiness. Seeing all the angles, nowt wrong with that try and what the ref did.
Nope. That's just wrong. He said time on to Bigger. Blew this whistle, Biggar took the kick and he then said "time iron" with the ball already in play. Have another look at the video.
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@gibbonrib said in NH International Rugby:
I reckon all these retired English players moaning about it on TV have been spending too much time watching their kids playing under 8s with referee-coaches.
... At last you've acknowledged that Sam Warburton is actually English.
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So... there wasn't actually a deal?
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@catogrande said in NH International Rugby:
@gibbonrib said in NH International Rugby:
@catogrande said in NH International Rugby:
@gibbonrib said in NH International Rugby:
Why on earth would the ref check if England are ready?
Because he has specifically told their captain to go and talk to them
He should check that they have had enough time to be ready, and he should call time on so both teams can hear,
Which he didn't do. He told Biggar time on, whistled and then called time on in general when Biggar's kick was already in flight.
but the team that gave away the penalty don't get to decide when they're ready to play again.>
Agreed but that is not in argument
If you're saying that the ref has to wait until the infringing side are ready then you're saying that the infringing side get to decide when he can restart by going as slow as they like.
Actually I have specifically said, that I haven't said that. If that makes sense?
You did say they don't get to decide. But you also said the ref has to wait until they're ready, which is basically the same thing.
Common sense says give them enough time to get ready - which he clearly did - and then restart.
It seems that the most the ref can be accused of doing wrong is saying "time on" too quietly. I don't know much about wing play, but I really think what went wrong had a little bit more to do with Watson being 30 metres out of position than Gauzere speaking too softly
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@catogrande said in NH International Rugby:
@gibbonrib said in NH International Rugby:
I reckon all these retired English players moaning about it on TV have been spending too much time watching their kids playing under 8s with referee-coaches.
... At last you've acknowledged that Sam Warburton is actually English.
He said "I'd be livid if I was Owen Farrell", but that's just a fundamental truth. You could hardly be Owen Farrell if you weren't. Its like saying "I'd swim a lot if I was a fish"
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@catogrande said in NH International Rugby:
@sparky said in NH International Rugby:
@catogrande said in NH International Rugby:
@gibbonrib said in NH International Rugby:
@sparky said in NH International Rugby:
I like that. Can't see how anyone can say the first try was bogus after watching that.
Something of a different perspective but still a shit show. Did England have enough time to get the message across? Of course. Did some of their guys fan out? Yes. Did the ref tell England that time was going back on? No. Did he tell Biggar that time was going on? Yes. Did he check that England were ready for time going back on? No.
Farrell had stopped speaking to his players. Ten seconds later the ref blew his whistle and said time on. May had jogged to his wing. The Welsh water carriers were moving from the field of play. Watson and Ford were incredibly slow cover the wing. The kick was to perfection exposing their tardiness. Seeing all the angles, nowt wrong with that try and what the ref did.
Nope. That's just wrong. He said time on to Bigger. Blew this whistle, Biggar took the kick and he then said "time iron" with the ball already in play. Have another look at the video.
I have seen the video, thank you. Time is on when the ref blows his whistle. Elliot Daly was already on the other wing by that point. The ref doesn't have to wait for all the defending team to get back in position when the attacking team awarded a penalty want to play. The game goes at the speed of the ref's whistle.
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@sparky said in NH International Rugby:
@catogrande said in NH International Rugby:
@sparky said in NH International Rugby:
@catogrande said in NH International Rugby:
@gibbonrib said in NH International Rugby:
@sparky said in NH International Rugby:
I like that. Can't see how anyone can say the first try was bogus after watching that.
Something of a different perspective but still a shit show. Did England have enough time to get the message across? Of course. Did some of their guys fan out? Yes. Did the ref tell England that time was going back on? No. Did he tell Biggar that time was going on? Yes. Did he check that England were ready for time going back on? No.
Farrell had stopped speaking to his players. Ten seconds later the ref blew his whistle and said time on. May had jogged to his wing. The Welsh water carriers were moving from the field of play. Watson and Ford were incredibly slow cover the wing. The kick was to perfection exposing their tardiness. Seeing all the angles, nowt wrong with that try and what the ref did.
Nope. That's just wrong. He said time on to Bigger. Blew this whistle, Biggar took the kick and he then said "time iron" with the ball already in play. Have another look at the video.
I have seen the video, thank you. Time is on when the ref blows his whistle. Elliot Daly was already on the other wing by that point. The ref doesn't have to wait for all the defending team to get back in position when the attacking team awarded a penalty want to play. The game goes at the speed of the ref's whistle.
Yeah I assumed that you'd seen the video, hence me saying have another look. Once you have, if you care to that is, answer whether what I'd said is correct, that he
- Said time is on to Biggar.
- He then blew his whistle.
- He then said in general time is on when the ball was already in flight.
For what it's worth I can see most of your points of view and agree to one degree or another with some. But taken as a whole that decision was just plain wrong. Ask yourself if your team was on the receiving end of that decision whether or not you'd be fuming. No ifs and buts, would you be fuming?
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