Springboks v England - Test #2
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@mariner4life said in Springboks v England - Test #2:
I don't know why, but the terms "starters" and "finishers" really annoys me for some reason
Starters not so much. But finishers us a bit wanky
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@mariner4life mate you should see what was on TV this morning, not supposed to call old people Elderly...oh shit, if I cant call them elderly, can I call them old people too?
People that are not young...starters and finishers is the least of your worry bro!
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@booboo said in Springboks v England - Test #2:
@mariner4life said in Springboks v England - Test #2:
I don't know why, but the terms "starters" and "finishers" really annoys me for some reason
Starters not so much. But finishers us a bit wanky
But not as wanky as "Happy Enders".
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@mariner4life said in Springboks v England - Test #2:
I don't know why, but the terms "starters" and "finishers" really annoys me for some reason
In the mid 70s Liverpool FC had a player called David Fairclough.
He made his debut in 1975 and as the season progressed, Fairclough scored seven crucial goals in just 14 appearances to land Liverpool the League championship. Nine of these appearances were as substitute.
He was and is still affectionately known as 'Super Sub'
Barring injury to BB, I can see DMac having this career.
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@taniwharugby said in Springboks v England - Test #2:
@victor-meldrew well if he breaks his duck by upsetting the AB's later this year no one will care
Well, I do have my suspicions about the England win in 2012. Bit of an outlier performance by the ABs which kept Lancaster in the role until RWC2015.... (insert Conspiracy Theory emoticon here...).
But seriously, the real issue with English rugby is the lack of structure for player development. We can laugh at the fact that a player who couldn't make the AB's walks into the England test team but its a pretty damning indictment of English rugby. And there seems bugger-all discussion of that here in the UK - more about what a wonderful player Shields is.
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@mariner4life said in Springboks v England - Test #2:
I don't know why, but the terms "starters" and "finishers" really annoys me for some reason
100% yes!
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@cgrant said in Springboks v England - Test #2:
They should have select Curwin Bosch on the bench instead of Gelant as he can cover 10 and 15, and he is a very good goal kicker as well.
Good point cgrant. Bosch would definitely have been better cover. And one can argue he brings as much x-factor as Gelant.
Look, it may all work out well anyway... but it does feel like tempting fate a bit too much for my liking.
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@mariner4life said in Springboks v England - Test #2:
I don't know why, but the terms "starters" and "finishers" really annoys me for some reason
agreed.
It just feels all modern-age-new-theory-bullshitty to me. -
@mikethesnow said in Springboks v England - Test #2:
@mariner4life said in Springboks v England - Test #2:
I don't know why, but the terms "starters" and "finishers" really annoys me for some reason
In the mid 70s Liverpool FC had a player called David Fairclough.
He made his debut in 1975 and as the season progressed, Fairclough scored seven crucial goals in just 14 appearances to land Liverpool the League championship. Nine of these appearances were as substitute.
He was and is still affectionately known as 'Super Sub'
Barring injury to BB, I can see DMac having this career.
BB basically had that career until his transformation in the Wales serious in 2016.
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@victor-meldrew said in Springboks v England - Test #2:
@taniwharugby said in Springboks v England - Test #2:
@victor-meldrew well if he breaks his duck by upsetting the AB's later this year no one will care
Well, I do have my suspicions about the England win in 2012. Bit of an outlier performance by the ABs which kept Lancaster in the role until RWC2015.... (insert Conspiracy Theory emoticon here...).
But seriously, the real issue with English rugby is the lack of structure for player development. We can laugh at the fact that a player who couldn't make the AB's walks into the England test team but its a pretty damning indictment of English rugby. And there seems bugger-all discussion of that here in the UK - more about what a wonderful player Shields is.
I think the damning indictment in this issue is really Eddie picking Shields. We have plenty of pretty damn good 6s, Robshaw being one, Wilson (on the bench) another. We really don't need Shields but Eddie...
Now if he had been a 7 your view would hold more water IMO.
I would also suggest that there has been plenty of discussion around his selection. Now it's happened the media are all in love with him but previously there was a lot of argument and counter argument in the press. There is still a lot of dissatisfaction being aired on message boards, HYS etc. This is a selection that has been very divisive.
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@catogrande from what I've read, there are four people happy with the selection. Shields, Jones and Shield's parents.
One thing England is not short of is players with Shield's skill set.
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@antipodean said in Springboks v England - Test #2:
@catogrande from what I've read, there are four people happy with the selection. Shields, Jones and Shield's parents.
One thing England is not short of is players with Shield's skill set.
You sort of get the feeling that he's been selected because he's a Kiwi that qualifies for England rather than yeah, we need him 'cos the alternatives are dogshit.
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@catogrande said in Springboks v England - Test #2:
@antipodean said in Springboks v England - Test #2:
@catogrande from what I've read, there are four people happy with the selection. Shields, Jones and Shield's parents.
One thing England is not short of is players with Shield's skill set.
You sort of get the feeling that he's been selected because he's a Kiwi that qualifies for England rather than yeah, we need him 'cos the alternatives are dogshit.
Perhaps trying to import some of that "no dickheads" culture?
If Eddie knows that he can't keep Robshaw around too much longer, he might be trying to fill that gap (decent guy who gives his all, and can be a role model), rather than any on-field gap?
I don't really believe that... it seems like too much of an "anti-conspiracy theory", but it sounds nice. -
@stargazer said in Springboks v England - Test #2:
The Springbok team to face England in Bloemfontein (in order of name and surname, franchise/club, caps and points):
15 Willie le Roux (Wasps, England, 42, 55 - 11t)
14 S’busiso Nkosi (Cell C Sharks, 1, 10 - 2t)
13 Lukhanyo Am (Cell C Sharks, 2, 0)
12 Damian de Allende (DHL Stormers, 29, 15 - 3t)
11 Aphiwe Dyantyi (Emirates Lions, 1, 5 - 1t)
10 Handré Pollard (Vodacom Bulls, 27, 235 - 3t, 41c, 43p, 3d)
9 Faf de Klerk (Sale Sharks, England, 12, 5 -1t)
8 Duane Vermeulen (Unattached, 40, 10 - 2t)
7 Pieter-Steph du Toit (DHL Stormers, 34, 20 - 4t)
6 Siya Kolisi (DHL Stormers, 29, 20 - 4t) - captain
5 Franco Mostert (Emirates Lions, 19, 5 - 1t)
4 RG Snyman (Vodacom Bulls, 1, 0)
3 Frans Malherbe (DHL Stormers, 17, 0)
2 Bongi Mbonambi (DHL Stormers, 15, 5 - 1t)
1 Tendai Mtawarira (Cell C Sharks, 99, 10 - 2t)Replacements:
16 Akker van der Merwe (Cell C Sharks, 2, 0)
17 Steven Kitshoff (DHL Stormers, 25, 5 - 1t)
18 Thomas du Toit (Cell C Sharks, 2, 0)
19 Jean-Luc du Preez (Cell C Sharks, 11, 10 - 2t)
20 Sikhumbuzo Notshe (DHL Stormers, 2, 0)
21 Ivan van Zyl (Vodacom Bulls, 2, 0)
22 Jesse Kriel (Vodacom Bulls, 30, 40 - 8t)
23 Warrick Gelant (Vodacom Bulls, 3, 5 – 1t)Not really liking this team.
Tighthead - Wilco Louw's performance has fallen of a cliff since the start of the season and probably needs a rest, but Malherbe looked REALLY out of shape in the one outing off the bench that he had for the stormers this season. With Oosthuizen and Nyakane out injured and Thomas Du Toit still learning his trade I am not sure what the alternative is, but it is concern.
Three locks starting - I am not sure about PS du Toit at blindside, I really thought he would become Juan Smith's replacement there, but I was wrong and if frankly think Mostert would be better in straight swap.
Even then I would have my reservations about the tactic as it means that at least two of the big men will have to play the 80 which isn't ideal.
But at least it means we finish with two fresh loose forwards... well not really. Given where this team is at you would ideally have Vermeulen and Kolisi playing the full eighty so one of the bench loosies is basically relegated to being injury cover.
No flyhalf/goalkicking cover on the bench - So Pollard is slated to play the entire game on Saturday with no injury cover. Should Pollard go down injured, Le Roux will move to flyhalf (he's never done that at pro level to my knowledge) and De Klerk will take over the kicking (he's never done that at pro level to my knowledge).
But Pollard won't get injured... except his injury record is actually terrible having missed basically all of 2016 and 2017 with injury. But he is all better now... except that he was under an injury cloud this week with a bum shoulder.
The worst case scenario is for Pollard to take a knock, but if the game is close Rassie might not want to take him off meaning we risk losing him again for the season.
What this selection also means is that Erasmus can't really sub either De Klerk (with Van Zyl) or Le Roux (with Gelant) so the backline reserves are also only there as injury cover.
Except for Jesse Kriel - I don't have faith in him to produce a consistent high quality performance and in no way does his inclusion justify the risk we are taking here.
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@billy-webb said in Springboks v England - Test #2:
@cgrant said in Springboks v England - Test #2:
They should have select Curwin Bosch on the bench instead of Gelant as he can cover 10 and 15, and he is a very good goal kicker as well.
Good point cgrant. Bosch would definitely have been better cover. And one can argue he brings as much x-factor as Gelant.
Look, it may all work out well anyway... but it does feel like tempting fate a bit too much for my liking.
That's a hard no for me -
1- Bosch has been varying between meh and terrible, especially in defence. And he doesn't kick for the Sharks anyway.
If you feel you need to drop Jantjes (and I wouldn't, though I am in the minority on that count), then it makes more sense to select Robert Du Preez. He is an excellent goal kicker and covers 12 in a pinch.
2- Gelant has been brilliant for the Bulls this (and last) season. I would say that he has been the best SA back in the super 15 this season and is superior fullback in every sense to Bosch with the possible exception of goal-kicking.
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I've never understood Malherbe (I've never seen him dominate a scrum and he isn't any more likely to after a second serious neck injury. Plus now he's lazy.)
Or Kriel (defensive liability, attacking black hole.)
Or Gelant (defensive liability, weak positional play, poor kicker - he's like a worse version of '97 era Percy.)
I feel like I must be watching different players than the coaches, journos and public.
And I don't understand this bench.
How I hope they all prove me wrong tomorrow.
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@sidbarret said in Springboks v England - Test #2:
No flyhalf/goalkicking cover on the bench - So Pollard is slated to play the entire game on Saturday with no injury cover. Should Pollard go down injured, Le Roux will move to flyhalf (he's never done that at pro level to my knowledge) and De Klerk will take over the kicking (he's never done that at pro level to my knowledge).
De Klerk kicked for Sale. Few games I watched he kicked well.
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@kruse said in Springboks v England - Test #2:
@catogrande said in Springboks v England - Test #2:
@antipodean said in Springboks v England - Test #2:
@catogrande from what I've read, there are four people happy with the selection. Shields, Jones and Shield's parents.
One thing England is not short of is players with Shield's skill set.
You sort of get the feeling that he's been selected because he's a Kiwi that qualifies for England rather than yeah, we need him 'cos the alternatives are dogshit.
Perhaps trying to import some of that "no dickheads" culture?
If Eddie knows that he can't keep Robshaw around too much longer, he might be trying to fill that gap (decent guy who gives his all, and can be a role model), rather than any on-field gap?
I don't really believe that... it seems like too much of an "anti-conspiracy theory", but it sounds nice.Either that or Jones is a shit coach.
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@sidbarret question about your locks: where are Estebeth and de Jager?
