All Blacks v France Test #2
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The worst part of this whole reffing debacle is that it absolutely sends the wrong (and contradictory) message about protecting players against head/neck injuries, and that the interpretation of the law has become even more confusing than it already was. It's wrong and inconvenient at test level, but even worse at club level.
World Rugby has issued "Interpretation of the laws" statements before - including videos and graphics etc - and should do this asap with regard to, particularly, contesting for the ball in the air.
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Statement of clarification: challenges in the air
World Rugby would like to reconfirm the guidelines employed by match officials and the judicial process relating to challenges in the air, following public and media commentary during the June tests.
The guidelines, which have been operational since 2016, deal with when two players are challenging for a ball in the air and are designed to give clarity and alignment regarding the red card threshold. These guidelines are:
If a player is not in a realistic position to gather the ball, there is contact and their opponent lands on their back or side – Yellow card
If a player is not in a realistic position to gather the ball, there is reckless or deliberate foul play and the player lands in a dangerous position – Red card
A player having eyes on the ball is not by itself a mitigating factor when the match officials are determining whether potential foul play has been committed. The primary considerations is whether both players were in a realistic position to regather the ball.
In respect of the red card issued to Benjamin Fall during the New Zealand versus France match on June 16, the match official team followed the guideline correctly and made a decision based on the available camera angles.
Only during the subsequent review by an independent judicial panel, when additional camera angles were made available, was it determined that Benjamin Fall was knocked off balance immediately prior to the challenge and therefore the red card was dismissed.
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@stargazer except the judiciary has access to angles the TMO doesnt.
Maybe similar to hawkeye technology, where they run through and if ALB isnt on the field, Fall catches the ball, runs 60m and scores under the posts?
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@taniwharugby The judiciairy doesn't do its work during the game. What I meant is that the same situation will still have the same result in future games: a red card being given (using the same process/tick list correctly used by Gardner and Ayoub) if it's not obvious from the camera angles available to the TMO that something happened that could mitigate the decision. In last weekend's game, that would also have happened if Ayoub had been able to conclude from the available footage that there was a mitigating factor.
(I still have doubts that that footage exists btw. I simply do not believe that the brief contact with ALB made Fall lose sufficient balance to influence his run and jump for the ball.)
Btw, that kind of technology (if it existed/was available) could never predict how high Fall would have jumped and whether he would have caught the ball if ALB hadn't been on the field. After all, his dynamic/interaction with BB could have been different. It could maybe predict where he would have been without the interference and angles/body positions that would have been possible before his jump.
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Great explanation. Some magical camera angle us peasants don't have access to shows it was all just an accident, nothing to see here, move along. Incompetent idiots.
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@stargazer said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@tim Good to know that basically nothing has changed since last weekend. Hope the media (esp those of the NH), which generally either lacks intelligence or pretends it lacks intelligence, understands it, too.
[tin foil hat]
Don't be so naive. The NH media has really ramped things up, and you want to know why? Because Gosper, Pichot and co, LISTEN TO THEM. They write unbelievably one-eyed biased bullshit, and will continuously attack attack attack at points which are not really relevant to the context of what happened in the game, to divert away from anything which could be written as positive. And, "co-incidentally" enough, it's always NZ, or if not NZ, at least the SH, which is in the bad.
It's fucking bullshit and frankly, for all that is written about NZ, rule leniency etc being a "blight in the game", it's the cancerous journo's who really are the blight on the game. Here's a short list I've compiled:
Luke Pearce, the English ref. Apparently in test one, he was "let down by his TMO peers", or "leaned by the pro AB crowd", or "succumbed to the world rugby sponsored view that the AB's play to different rules".
Paul Williams, the NZ ref for Ireland - Aus "a disgrace to the game" - this was tweeted DIRECTLY at Gosper. Wanna know why? Because he didn't give Ireland a yellow card for continual Aussie transgressions. Maybe a point, but a DISGRACE? Especially after a week of continual media hum drum about the "unfair yellow" (where the poor young outstanding english ref was let down by everybody around who wasn't english) ruining the game in NZ.
Gardner - "should have certainly taken ALB's run into account", "a red card for ALB shouldn't have been out of the question given his part in it" ... this isn't from rabid one eyed fans, this is from JOURNALISTS ... who are sending messages to Gosper!! Seriously, here's the fucking video:
ALB did JACK SHIT. His eyes were on the fucking ball too, it doesn't even look like he touched him, let alone ran from 50 yards away to directly push poor skinny Fall into Barrett to milk the red card. The world rugby media release here is COLOSSAL BULLSHIT, written purely to appease the same NH media they infuritated with their COLOSSAL BULLSHIT media release from a week earlier about Ofa.
And you want to hear the ultimate shit in the face ? During the England - Tunisia football match, Harry Kane was tackled in the penalty box, rugby style .. One Walrus wrote ... "Some of the high tackling on Harry Kane in the Tunisian box would have even got an All Black carded. Lord Harry I should say"
Not a big deal really, for the pompous alanis morrisette style irony fellow, but you know who liked it?
His BFF Brett Gosper.
[/tin foil hat]
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Best rant in ages. Virtual pint
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@majorrage fucking cheating ALB was offside after Barrett DELIBERATELY knocked it on! PROOF the cheating bloody New Zealanders are FAVOURED!
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@majorrage Brett Gosper is looking to implement the AB law. Whereby the AB's have to start all games with just 13 players because we will commit 2 red card offences but the ref the got a bag full of green backs to look the other way prior to the game. By the way it was Aura that delivered the money.
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@wreck-diver Not quite the point I'm making. I'm not quite that level of tin foil. I believe two things.
- World Rugby issued a statement about Ofa because of pressure applied by journo's across Europe.
- World Rugby rescinded the red card against Fall because of the outcry on the back of their Ofa release that he wasn't punished suggesting AB's favoritism.
The first one is not the wrong thing to do, however the second is. I cannot fathom any other reason for the second given their stance on players in the air over the last 12-18 months.
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@majorrage I was being sarcastic
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@wreck-diver Yeah I know.
Just took the opportunity to state that behind my rant, there is actually a real point I'm trying to make!
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@majorrage similar to how Jeromes hit in the 3rd Lion test shoulda been red but they had to let it slide withO'Brien getting nothing the week before.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@majorrage similar to how Jeromes hit in the 3rd Lion test shoulda been red but they had to let it slide with O'Brien getting nothing the week before.
I thought it was shoulder on shoulder?
