All Blacks v France Test #1
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@gt12 said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
Yep, that’s true, but I guess the question becomes whether another 10 coming on can control the game as Barrett can?
I’d have said probably until this game, where I thought Barrett had one of his better nights being a proper, drive it around 10, while still being dangerous as a rugby player. If he plays like that, I think Mo’unga is aways away - Cruden to Carter, to continue the metaphor.
The danger happens if Barrett becomes injured - of course - but if they persist with Jordie and give him Dagg like 1st receiver carries, he should still be there when Dmac comes on - and won’t be subbed. The question is whether the two of them together could get us past England, Ireland, Sth Africa, France, Aus?
If it’s part of the coaches’ plan, I bet we see Beauden subbed this year for them to test it.
I suppose the obvious question is whether or not BB, having played 50 at 10, could provide impact moving back to 15, where he has been lethal. Would like to see this get a run.
If it works it opens up quite a few possibilities, Mo'unga on bench being one. If not, there is judgement of whether DMac's dubiousness at 10 is a risk worth taking for his impact off the bench at 15. To be weighed gainst the steadier option.
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@gt12 I think you are pretty much right.
I think they'd see Beauden as someone who is only going to be subbed if injured. So if you plonk Mo'unga on the bench - a guy who's a specialist first five - then he's unlikely to take the field (except in a BB emergency) and hence "a wasted resource".
Small element of rolling the dice, but DMac will know that he doesn't have to make as much play for the ABs as what he does for the Chiefs (in the same way Mo'unga will know re. the Crusaders).
In reality, we're probably better off regardless than in 2011 when the Beaver ran onto the field in the Final!
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@Chris-B I agree. My biggest gripe with this team was DMac on the bench, but I am really pleased for him - his best outing in black to date and did everything you could ask for in terms of impact. Certainly proved me wrong.
Also, given the way the ABs like to up the ante in the 2nd 40, I can see why they'd prefer both Beauden and DMac on the field, rather than Mo'unga at 10 and Beauden at 15.
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@no-quarter said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@Nepia can't say I agree with you re: Jordie. Thought he was all class, particularly under the high ball and also injecting himself into the line. BFA had an error riddled game and IMO it looks like his age is finally starting to catch up with him. He does still offer a lot, but I am starting to wonder if the next WC may be a bridge too far.
Actually, you were the main poster I was thinking about after reading the thread
. Personally, I just don't see what you see (competent but not outstanding), plus I think you're harshly underrating BFA, he was class once the ball started getting to him in the 2nd half and that's one of the issues with him on the wing, he's not involved enough. -
@Nepia I'm touched you were thinking of me
I probably am being harsh on BFA as he's set the standard so high, but I definitely see a bit of a decline in his game. He's nowhere near the error free player he once was - E.G. he was very poor under the high ball in this test so I was glad to have Jordie taking them on defense. I think Jordie is pretty much a lock for the 15 jersey in big games.
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I would still prefer BFA as the starting fullback at this point in time.
I'm also puzzled that Jordie has more MOTM votes than Beauden.
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@bovidae said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
I would still prefer BFA as the starting fullback at this point in time.
I'm also puzzled that Jordie has more MOTM votes than Beauden.
Probably some cross fertilisation - people voting for a Barrett.
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@antipodean be easier to set up a poll if we just put up 'a Barrett' and 'a Whitelock'....
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@mikethesnow So you enjoy every 5 minutes the TMO going 'check check foul play 25 phases ago a player got tackled and there are grass stains on his shorts I think you need to review'. 5 minutes later ref 'I think we can play on. Thats really added to the game has it.'
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@bones said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
Just want to say, a big no to having a wing/fullback cover centre (if starting at wing/fullback that is).
We currently don't have the other option which is a midfielder that can play well on the wing. (eg Kahui). Seta is trying to create himself as one but can only do so when one of Crotty or Goodhue are injured. They are pretty rare and anyway the current international game requires a winger to have a skillset a bit different to what we got away with with Kahui.
The other option we have with a midfield injury is playing two first receivers and BB shifting out one space.
I don't see it is a problem anyway. Plenty on here keep telling us the JB can play anywhere on the field at test standard.
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@wreck-diver said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@mikethesnow So you enjoy every 5 minutes the TMO going 'check check foul play 25 phases ago a player got tackled and there are grass stains on his shorts I think you need to review'. 5 minutes later ref 'I think we can play on. Thats really added to the game has it.'
Not particularly. Unless it's that type of game and then unfortunately the TMO needs to be used.
In Saturday's incident the ref got it wrong in real time. Then got it wrong for a second time by not asking the TMO.
Potentially (and in this instance actually) pivotal moments/decisions need a second look.
Can't see how anyone can see it differently tbh
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@crucial said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@bones said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
Just want to say, a big no to having a wing/fullback cover centre (if starting at wing/fullback that is).
We currently don't have the other option which is a midfielder that can play well on the wing. (eg Kahui). Seta is trying to create himself as one but can only do so when one of Crotty or Goodhue are injured. They are pretty rare and anyway the current international game requires a winger to have a skillset a bit different to what we got away with with Kahui.
The other option we have with a midfield injury is playing two first receivers and BB shifting out one space.
I don't see it is a problem anyway. Plenty on here keep telling us the JB can play anywhere on the field at test standard.
Yup, he looks like a giraffe, so should be able to play like a giraffe.
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@crucial said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@bones said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
Just want to say, a big no to having a wing/fullback cover centre (if starting at wing/fullback that is).
We currently don't have the other option which is a midfielder that can play well on the wing. (eg Kahui). Seta is trying to create himself as one but can only do so when one of Crotty or Goodhue are injured. They are pretty rare and anyway the current international game requires a winger to have a skillset a bit different to what we got away with with Kahui.
The other option we have with a midfield injury is playing two first receivers and BB shifting out one space.
I don't see it is a problem anyway. Plenty on here keep telling us the JB can play anywhere on the field at test standard.
Nah, he's no good at tighthead.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@crucial said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@bones said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
Just want to say, a big no to having a wing/fullback cover centre (if starting at wing/fullback that is).
We currently don't have the other option which is a midfielder that can play well on the wing. (eg Kahui). Seta is trying to create himself as one but can only do so when one of Crotty or Goodhue are injured. They are pretty rare and anyway the current international game requires a winger to have a skillset a bit different to what we got away with with Kahui.
The other option we have with a midfield injury is playing two first receivers and BB shifting out one space.
I don't see it is a problem anyway. Plenty on here keep telling us the JB can play anywhere on the field at test standard.
Nah, he's no good at tighthead.
Only because he hasn't been tried there.
I did have a chuckle when the Barrett's were lined up for the anthem and there was a fullback taller than a lock.
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@crucial said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
We currently don't have the other option which is a midfielder that can play well on the wing. (eg Kahui). Seta is trying to create himself as one but can only do so when one of Crotty or Goodhue are injured. They are pretty rare and anyway the current international game requires a winger to have a skillset a bit different to what we got away with with Kahui.
We do actually have a winger/midfielder in Rieko, although you can debate how effective he is currently in the midfield.
ALB could also play on the wing in a backline reshuffle, he made his debut there for the Chiefs. I noted that one of the reasons Hansen and Foster gave for liking DMac as a utility back is that he covers wing too. He ended up there a few times last year.
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@bovidae said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
@crucial said in All Blacks v France Test #1:
We currently don't have the other option which is a midfielder that can play well on the wing. (eg Kahui). Seta is trying to create himself as one but can only do so when one of Crotty or Goodhue are injured. They are pretty rare and anyway the current international game requires a winger to have a skillset a bit different to what we got away with with Kahui.
We do actually have a winger/midfielder in Rieko, although you can debate how effective he is currently in the midfield.
ALB could also play on the wing in a backline reshuffle, he made his debut there for the Chiefs. I noted that one of the reasons Hansen and Foster gave for liking DMac as a utility back is that he covers wing too. He ended up there a few times last year.
We have a winger/midfielder with BFA as well (for bench purposes). It was more the experienced midfielder that can play as a starting test wing that I was thinking about (eg Kahui)
The selectors are taking an approach of the bench being there as a weapon to up the ante and add some dynamics that can take advantage of tiring opposition rather than planning for injuries. Hence the desire to inject DMac at 15. Put him on the bench and you then look for midfield and halfback impact.
It's a good strategy as long as you don't get too many injuries. A fresh halfback ups the speed of the game, the 80 minute first-five has already got the feel of where opportunities to attack are and you have a midfield broadsword and fullback rapier to take advantage.
I still think SBW nowdays suits the starting 12 better than the finishing one. ALB and Goddhue may even miss a RWC selection due to lack of room. I believe the thinking lies toward SBW/Crotty with Laumape on bench.
