WALES JUNE TOUR: SA IN DC, ARGENTINA
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Forgot I started this thread.
Wrong location entirely.
Should at least have been at one of the Major League Rugby venues.
Glendale, Colorado; Kansas City; Houston, Dallas and Austin; New Orleans, Seattle, Minneapolis and Salt Lake City
Or Chicago, NYC or Toronto
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Posted this in the June International thread earlier
OK the positives first
We won. First away win against SA. So congratulations to the 23
Ellis Jenkins has got the right stuff. So too Tomos Williams.
And hopefully we can put the 'North in the centre experiment' to bed once and for all
As soon as Parkes came on we had shape both in defence and attack. I was critical of putting an old fella into Test rugby. Happy to be proven wrongNow the negatives
C4 rubbish coverage
Ref very average
The last thing this crowd should have been subjected to was extra time
Both teams playing shit, shit tactics with shit, shit skill levels
Anscombe fuck off. Patchell has to start against the Argies.
One of the worst test matches I'vd watchedBut we won
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@salacious-crumb said in WALES JUNE TOUR: SA IN DC, ARGENTINA:
Springboks v Wales a flop at the turnstiles
Cape Town - Those who panned the idea of scheduling the out-of-Test-window clash between the Springboks and Wales in Washington DC on Saturday were left feeling justified after fan attendance figures were confirmed.
With rugby worldwide struggling for support in the stands - and on TV - as a litany of cost and refereeing issues, among others, blight the game, it became clear from well before kick-off that the latest sojourn into US territory was a disaster waiting to happen.
Springbok coach Rassie Erasmus, taking charge of his first Test after replacing Allister Coetzee earlier this year, was even on record as saying the one-off clash was "all about the money".
Instead, we got shadow XVs, a game that barely registered in the sporting consciousness of the US public and a half-empty stadium filled mainly by ex-pats.
According to reports, World Rugby had to pitch in with a financial rescue package to bail out the organisers of the match after it failed to hit the break-even target of 27,000 spectators through the turnstiles.
The official attendance was 21 357, according to the Wales Online website - less than HALF the stadium's 45 596 capacity.
Quite what SA Rugby's share of the revenue will be, remains to be seen.
Despite a dramatic finale, the first half in particular was one of the worst played in recent memory - by the Springboks in particular - and was dominated by poor handling and a mind-numbing amount of reset scrums, as Wales recorded their third consecutive win over South Africa 22-20.
Talking the game to a new audience should be applauded, but there was an unsatisfactory feel to the whole occasion.
https://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Springboks/springboks-v-wales-a-flop-at-the-turnstiles-20180603
Wales and SAF get $750k each, it was a fixed fee.
I actually think 21k crowd is not too bad in the circumstances. The circumstances being that RIM arranged the match )without much lead in) but then ran out of money to promote it.
Still a debacle though.
Not sure on the repercussions to USARU on the impending banckruptcynof RIM beyond them not making profitable dividends to pay out for event hosting such as this.
As in will USARU get their 'rights' that they invested in RIM back, if so when?
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Classic comment on the WalesOnline web site:
“The last time rugby this poor was on C4, Ross from 'Friends' was trying to impress his English girlfriend.”
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What I never understood about this game was who was playing and where.
SA vs Wales in Washington DC? Gettnig 20k to this was a pretty good achievment given that:
- USA wasn't playing
- Neither SA or Wales are the world champs / highest ranked team
- DC itself is not actually that large
- Neither coach played a full strength team
Don't know too much about Welsh expats (am sure there are a few), but there certainly are loads of jaapies there. Although a lot would have been turned off by the team that was sent.
Even if I lived in DC, I doubt I would have bothered going.
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@mikethesnow said in WALES JUNE TOUR: SA IN DC, ARGENTINA:
Classic comment on the WalesOnline web site:
“The last time rugby this poor was on C4, Ross from 'Friends' was trying to impress his English girlfriend.”
Question for you Mike. Gatland has come out about his disappointment that the Premiership Clubs did not release their players for this match and it does seem a bit petty to me, seeing as it is at the end of the club season, but then you also have to ask what are Wales doing organising the match outside the International window - why?
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@majorrage said in WALES JUNE TOUR: SA IN DC, ARGENTINA:
What I never understood about this game was who was playing and where.
SA vs Wales in Washington DC? Gettnig 20k to this was a pretty good achievment given that:
- USA wasn't playing
- Neither SA or Wales are the world champs / highest ranked team
- DC itself is not actually that large
- Neither coach played a full strength team
Don't know too much about Welsh expats (am sure there are a few), but there certainly are loads of jaapies there. Although a lot would have been turned off by the team that was sent.
Even if I lived in DC, I doubt I would have bothered going.
Historically a lot of Welsh in neighbouring state Pennsylvania, but a stronger contingent in other areas of the US, and Canada.
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@majorrage said in WALES JUNE TOUR: SA IN DC, ARGENTINA:
What I never understood about this game was who was playing and where.
SA vs Wales in Washington DC? Gettnig 20k to this was a pretty good achievment given that:
- USA wasn't playing
- Neither SA or Wales are the world champs / highest ranked team
- DC itself is not actually that large
- Neither coach played a full strength team
Don't know too much about Welsh expats (am sure there are a few), but there certainly are loads of jaapies there. Although a lot would have been turned off by the team that was sent.
Even if I lived in DC, I doubt I would have bothered going.
Think this is the problem.
My cousin has lived in Chicago for close to 30 years and comes home at least once each season to watch Wales play.
But didn't go to D.C.
And time & money weren't factors.
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@majorrage said in WALES JUNE TOUR: SA IN DC, ARGENTINA:
- DC itself is not actually that large
I imagine DC was chosen because of the relatively large expat SA community in nearby Maryland/Virginia and/or it is one of the only cities in the US they can fly direct back to SA.
Outside of the home team, NZ, Ireland and possibly England (hasn't been tested) I don't think the quality of opposition really moves the needle. In Toronto which has had a steady diet of Tier 1/2 nations each year did approx 12k for both Fiji vs Japan and Canada vs Italy. NZ Maori pulled 22k, Ireland vs Canada pulled 20k.
Like you said all things considered I think 20k is a bloody good achievement.
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@catogrande said in WALES JUNE TOUR: SA IN DC, ARGENTINA:
@mikethesnow said in WALES JUNE TOUR: SA IN DC, ARGENTINA:
Classic comment on the WalesOnline web site:
“The last time rugby this poor was on C4, Ross from 'Friends' was trying to impress his English girlfriend.”
Question for you Mike. Gatland has come out about his disappointment that the Premiership Clubs did not release their players for this match and it does seem a bit petty to me, seeing as it is at the end of the club season, but then you also have to ask what are Wales doing organising the match outside the International window - why?
Not sure tbh
Historically Gatland / WRU have scheduled tests outside the International Window during the NH Autumn.
Could Argentina and Wales sustain a 3 test series? Doubtful
So aside from a test v Canada or the US that leaves Wales with only two matches this NH Summer.
Was it part of Major League Rugby's strategy to raise the profile of the game in the US? If so, failed on so many counts.
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DC is a dive. And if 20,000 is a good achievement, then wtf were they doing scheduling it in a stadium that holds more than twice that number? It was more than half-empty ffs.
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@mikethesnow said in WALES JUNE TOUR: SA IN DC, ARGENTINA:
@majorrage said in WALES JUNE TOUR: SA IN DC, ARGENTINA:
What I never understood about this game was who was playing and where.
SA vs Wales in Washington DC? Gettnig 20k to this was a pretty good achievment given that:
- USA wasn't playing
- Neither SA or Wales are the world champs / highest ranked team
- DC itself is not actually that large
- Neither coach played a full strength team
Don't know too much about Welsh expats (am sure there are a few), but there certainly are loads of jaapies there. Although a lot would have been turned off by the team that was sent.
Even if I lived in DC, I doubt I would have bothered going.
Historically a lot of Welsh in neighbouring state Pennsylvania, but a stronger contingent in other areas of the US, and Canada.
A decade ago I saw England B and Ireland play test matches in a cornfield outside Toronto (Markham) with 10,000 spectators and would not have been surprised that Welsh rugby supporters outnumbered Poms and Paddies at each. With a much better venue now available in Toronto, I have no doubts whatsoever a Wales v. Boks test match would have filled all 25,000 seats. 25/25 always looks better than 20/45. Philadelpha is a mercurial sports city, but I suspect they would have drawn far better than DC.
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@salacious-crumb said in WALES JUNE TOUR: SA IN DC, ARGENTINA:
A decade ago I saw England B and Ireland play test matches in a cornfield outside Toronto (Markham) with 10,000 spectators and would not have been surprised that Welsh rugby supporters outnumbered Poms and Paddies at each. With a much better venue now available in Toronto, I have no doubts whatsoever a Wales v. Boks test match would have filled all 25,000 seats. 25/25 always looks better than 20/45. Philadelpha is a mercurial sports city, but I suspect they would have drawn far better than DC.
BMO recently upgraded to 30k which would be a stretch. Aside from the NZ Maori & Ireland vs Canada games there it's been a struggle to get anything over 10k without double and triple headers. Even the Canada/USA WC qualifier in Hamilton drew 13k.
Absolutely no chance that Wales vs South Africa gets 20k in Toronto at this time of year IMO. Newcastle vs Saracens played outside Philly earlier in the season and did ~7k, maybe an international fixture draws similar to DC? The lack of a central mid sized stadium in places like NYC, San Francisco or Philly make it tricky to play these fixtures without embarrassingly empty stadiums.
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@salacious-crumb said in WALES JUNE TOUR: SA IN DC, ARGENTINA:
DC is a dive. And if 20,000 is a good achievement, then wtf were they doing scheduling it in a stadium that holds more than twice that number? It was more than half-empty ffs.
people write optimistic business cases, and wave around big appearance fees. Because, y'know, we're all 'worth it'. A test match without front line players, held in America, that's clearly for money -- we could have learned something from Rugby League and the debacle that will unfold for them shortly.
Losing money may cause this to be re-thunk
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It's already being re-thunk. Voluntary or involuntarily.
The discussion of the disaster of RIM is all on the first page of this thread.
In particular this post:
http://www.thesilverfern.com/topic/2316/wales-june-tour-sa-in-dc-argentina/14?page=1#Which contains this link: http://www.rugbytoday.com/elite/rim-disaster-confirmed-all-you-need-know
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The reason I think the 21k crowd outcome is not bad considering the circumstances:
- The last throw of a dieing company who then didn't have the funds to promote the game.
- There was a huge college national 7s tournament an hour away at the same time sucking away plenty of local enthusiasts.
I'd say they've met the 21k figure pretty much through expats and maybe some local enthusiasts with no links to the college game. Reaching 21k at least stops some of the bleeding, they needed 28k to break even (stadium costs plus $1.5m fee split between SAF and Wales)
They didn't have the money to promote and attract local curious non-rugby fans. They also didn't really give themselves much time to do this even if they had the money to promote.
Also, unlike the 2 successful All Blacks visits to Chicago, I don't think either of these teams had sponsors with major USA presence. I'd say Adidas in particular would have had plenty of experience in getting publicity in Chicago for holding an event.
Ireland are playing Italy in Chicago in November this year. It will be interesting to see how that goes. I think it will do OK as the Irish and Italia diasporas will turn up. But I would say Italy will have trouble getting their best players as it will be out of window. I assume the best Italian players don't play for the 2 Italian Pro14 teams, but play in France and England?
Also re: Italy in Chicago in November. I don't know what RIMs impending banckruptcy will mean. As far as I understand they have the rights for test match hosting in the USA. Although I'm sure the major shareholder of RIM (the USARU) will want it to go ahead as this should actually make them some dosh.
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@nzzp said in WALES JUNE TOUR: SA IN DC, ARGENTINA:
@salacious-crumb said in WALES JUNE TOUR: SA IN DC, ARGENTINA:
DC is a dive. And if 20,000 is a good achievement, then wtf were they doing scheduling it in a stadium that holds more than twice that number? It was more than half-empty ffs.
people write optimistic business cases, and wave around big appearance fees. Because, y'know, we're all 'worth it'. A test match without front line players, held in America, that's clearly for money -- we could have learned something from Rugby League and the debacle that will unfold for them shortly.
Losing money may cause this to be re-thunk
I honestly don’t think rugby supporters could care less about “big names” missing. This is rugby, where the team is much-much bigger than the “stars,.” I’ll reiterate, as somebody who has had to travel to DC for work too many times, that people don’t like to travel there, exemplified by hotel concierges who tell you to never go out alone during the day, and insist that walking anywhere at night — even in a group — is a really bad idea. I found out the hard way they’s ain’t bullshittin’. Dangerous ghettos as bad as anything in Baltimore or Detroit are only blocks away from the White House and Capitol Building. Lost count of the number of times strangers drove by, winding their windows down and calling me “pork chops,” and I don’t have any body fat on me. You get in, get out, and don’t stick around.
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@rapido said in WALES JUNE TOUR: SA IN DC, ARGENTINA:
Also, unlike the 2 successful All Blacks visits to Chicago, I don't think either of these teams had sponsors with major USA presence. I'd say Adidas in particular would have had plenty of experience in getting publicity in Chicago for holding an event.
Wales kit sponsor is Under Armour
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Welsh 23 named for 1st Test against Argentina this Saturday
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/44377886
Amos the only back retained from the SA win
Adams - Aviva Premiership's top try scorer - gets his debut.
Gatland true to his word and mixing things up in the pack
Davies in for Jenkins at 7
Argies favourites but as long as Wales kick well and go through the phases, who knows?
Wales XV:
Hallam Amos; Josh Adams, Scott Williams, Hadleigh Parkes, George North; Rhys Patchell, Gareth Davies
Wyn Jones, Elliot Dee, Dillon Lewis, Adam Beard, Cory Hill (capt), Seb Davies, James Davies, Ross MoriartyReplacements:
Ryan Elias, Rob Evans, Tomas Francis, Josh Turnbull, Aaron Wainwright
Aled Davies, Gareth Anscombe, Owen Watkin.Argentina: tbc
Referee: Andrew Brace (Ireland).
Assistant referees: Jaco Peyper (South Africa), Mathieu Raynal (France).
TMO: Marius Jonker (South Africa)
