WALES JUNE TOUR: SA IN DC, ARGENTINA
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This was the promoter's response ot the article above:
https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/43905176Organisers of Wales' June Test against South Africa in Washington DC have quashed reports it is in doubt.
Reports had said the fixture could be called off amid financial and ticket sales problems.
Mark Lambourne, a board member for match organisers Rugby International Marketing (RIM) said: "For the elimination of any doubt, the fixture was since officially sanctioned."
He also said ticket sales are "over 12,000" with more than a month to go.
Lambourne added: "Published USA Rugby minutes from last month transcribe the fact that a healthy debate was had about the game, with directors entirely within their rights to discuss the benefits for USA Rugby.
He says preparations for the fixture "are going ahead at full pace".
"We are all very much looking forward to welcoming Wales and the Springboks to Washington DC on 2 June," said Lambourne.
When English Premiership clubs Saracens and Newcastle met in Philadelphia in September, 2017, they played in front of 6,271 in an 18,500 capacity venue.
However, the Ireland's historic won over New Zealand at Chicago's Soldier Field in November, 2016 was a sell-out 60,000.
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The promoters (RIM).
Harlequins will be hit hard if Rugby International Marketing goes bust
EXCLUSIVE BY WILL KELLEHER: Over the last three financial years Quins have made a combined operating loss of £7.6million – with £4.8m lost in 2017 alone. They invested £1.4m into RIM.
Harlequins are braced for a major financial impact if the American company staging the Wales-South Africa match in Washington DC this June goes bust.
Sportsmail understands Rugby International Marketing (RIM) — the commercial arm of USA Rugby tasked with staging Test matches which has both the RFU and Quins as minority shareholders — is at real risk of going bankrupt in the coming weeks.
If they do the London club will be hit hardest. Over the last three financial years Quins have made a combined operating loss of £7.6million – with £4.8m lost in 2017 alone.
They invested £1.4m into RIM and their online streaming service, The Rugby Channel, in 2016.
If the company was to sink Quins would lose the lot making the financial situation at the Stoop even more treacherous.
In that scenario the RFU's £1.4m investment would go up in smoke too – but Twickenham is far more robust than Quins and would recover with ease.
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http://www.rugbytoday.com/elite/rim-disaster-confirmed-all-you-need-know
RIM looking like a disaster for the USARU.
“RIM, as an ongoing concern, has no ability to successfully sustain itself as a business,” the report read. It also confirmed that The Rugby Channel, one of RIM’s properties, will either be sold or shut down, potentially by way of structured bankruptcy. Currently, FloSports is in negotiations to buy The Rugby Channel. If it doesn’t, expect The Rugby Channel to close its doors.
The statement parcels RIM’s assets into three different silos – The Rugby Channel, events and the Rugby World Cup Sevens. Like The Rugby Channel, the events business is not doing well.
“RIM has continued to experience challenges with its events business and has not met its targets on sponsorship revenue,” read the statement. “Poor decisions on locations and aggressive budgets have created numerous issues that the company is having to address to insure present obligations are met and is working extremely hard to insure these events are as successful as possible.”
Looming largest on RIM’s to-do list is staging a successful Sevens World Cup. Before that’s complete, though, the event side of the shop will host a test between Wales and South Africa at a likely barren RFK Stadium in Washington, D.C.
This game is reportedly in danger of not going off, though the union has issued a statement confirming its inevitability. Ticket sales are scarce and the venture looks like a sure loser, but RIM is contractually bound to pay three-quarters-of-a-million dollars each to both South Africa and Wales even if the balls are never inflated, so it’s likely more expensive to cancel the game than have it at this point.
The statement did paint a relatively optimistic picture for the World Cup Sevens, though there is work being done to shore up the event financially.
“There is the potential for this event to break even if current plans are executed and projections are met,” it says. “This will take a lot of work between now and the event.”
Presale for single-day tickets began Wednesday. Payne, in his new role as CEO of Rugby Americas, has been tasked with making the World Cup as big a success as possible.
It’s not without risk, though. USA Rugby owns RIM, and RIM is the legal guarantor of the World Cup Sevens, meaning should the event lose money, RIM is on the hook for it. But RIM is poor, so in the event RIM can’t cover losses, USA Rugby is trying to secure additional financial assistance from event partners to cover the gap.
If RIM were just an independent business in danger of shuttering its doors, it would be newsworthy. But given RIM is majority owned by USA Rugby, there is a real financial risk for the national governing body, making the potential impact far reaching.
“The immediate concern to USA Rugby’s business model is the risk of RIM failing to pay all or substantially all of its remaining 2018 licensing payments to USA Rugby,” the statement says.
RIM is scheduled to make payments to USA Rugby in June, September and December totaling more than $1 million. Whatever RIM can’t come up with, USA Rugby is left without. Next year, RIM is supposed to pay USA Rugby more than $1 million more. That, too, would appear to be in jeopardy.
...................How did we get here?
The origin story of RIM, created with the intention of raising outside capital to generate profitable returns for USA Rugby and other shareholders over and above what the union could do itself ………..
In October, 2015, the board discussed the first sale of RIM equity to England’s RFU for $2 million. RIM would also sell equity to UK-based Chime Sports Management, the Harlequins and a handful of wealthy individuals. All told, USA Rugby sold 25-percent of RIM for $7.5 million.
.......................Then-USA-Rugby-CEO Nigel Melville was supposed to leave his post and lead RIM, but he took a job with the RFU. Sternberg, who was originally brought on as a consultant, was trumpeted as the interim CEO in May of 2016. Payne was hired as USA Rugby’s chief executive two months later.
The failure of The Rugby Channel can’t be overstated. It was RIM’s only year-round business, and it was launched just in time to compete directly with over-the-top subscription offerings from media giants NBC and ESPN. It never stood a chance, and because it ate up so much of RIM’s start-up cash without ever kicking much back, neither did RIM. That USA Rugby’s and RIM’s leadership didn’t see this iceberg coming and abort much sooner is one of their biggest missteps.
Buried deep in the board minutes from November 2015 is mention of an offer from IMG, the sports and entertainment behemoth, for majority ownership of The Rugby Channel and 10-percent stake in RIM as a whole. IMG was to bring ESPN to the table as a potential broadcast partner. RIM rejected it. Without knowing the exact numbers at play, it stands to reason current RIM decision makers might love nothing more than to go back in time and snatch that deal out of IMG’s hand, as IMG’s once-trumpeted partnership with USA Rugby for the college space bore no fruit and ESPN became a direct competitor in the rugby streaming space.
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Christ on a bike
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Springboks v Wales a flop at the turnstiles
Cape Town - Those who panned the idea of scheduling the out-of-Test-window clash between the Springboks and Wales in Washington DC on Saturday were left feeling justified after fan attendance figures were confirmed.
With rugby worldwide struggling for support in the stands - and on TV - as a litany of cost and refereeing issues, among others, blight the game, it became clear from well before kick-off that the latest sojourn into US territory was a disaster waiting to happen.
Springbok coach Rassie Erasmus, taking charge of his first Test after replacing Allister Coetzee earlier this year, was even on record as saying the one-off clash was "all about the money".
Instead, we got shadow XVs, a game that barely registered in the sporting consciousness of the US public and a half-empty stadium filled mainly by ex-pats.
According to reports, World Rugby had to pitch in with a financial rescue package to bail out the organisers of the match after it failed to hit the break-even target of 27,000 spectators through the turnstiles.
The official attendance was 21 357, according to the Wales Online website - less than HALF the stadium's 45 596 capacity.
Quite what SA Rugby's share of the revenue will be, remains to be seen.
Despite a dramatic finale, the first half in particular was one of the worst played in recent memory - by the Springboks in particular - and was dominated by poor handling and a mind-numbing amount of reset scrums, as Wales recorded their third consecutive win over South Africa 22-20.
Talking the game to a new audience should be applauded, but there was an unsatisfactory feel to the whole occasion.
https://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Springboks/springboks-v-wales-a-flop-at-the-turnstiles-20180603
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Forgot I started this thread.
Wrong location entirely.
Should at least have been at one of the Major League Rugby venues.
Glendale, Colorado; Kansas City; Houston, Dallas and Austin; New Orleans, Seattle, Minneapolis and Salt Lake City
Or Chicago, NYC or Toronto
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Posted this in the June International thread earlier
OK the positives first
We won. First away win against SA. So congratulations to the 23
Ellis Jenkins has got the right stuff. So too Tomos Williams.
And hopefully we can put the 'North in the centre experiment' to bed once and for all
As soon as Parkes came on we had shape both in defence and attack. I was critical of putting an old fella into Test rugby. Happy to be proven wrongNow the negatives
C4 rubbish coverage
Ref very average
The last thing this crowd should have been subjected to was extra time
Both teams playing shit, shit tactics with shit, shit skill levels
Anscombe fuck off. Patchell has to start against the Argies.
One of the worst test matches I'vd watchedBut we won
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@salacious-crumb said in WALES JUNE TOUR: SA IN DC, ARGENTINA:
Springboks v Wales a flop at the turnstiles
Cape Town - Those who panned the idea of scheduling the out-of-Test-window clash between the Springboks and Wales in Washington DC on Saturday were left feeling justified after fan attendance figures were confirmed.
With rugby worldwide struggling for support in the stands - and on TV - as a litany of cost and refereeing issues, among others, blight the game, it became clear from well before kick-off that the latest sojourn into US territory was a disaster waiting to happen.
Springbok coach Rassie Erasmus, taking charge of his first Test after replacing Allister Coetzee earlier this year, was even on record as saying the one-off clash was "all about the money".
Instead, we got shadow XVs, a game that barely registered in the sporting consciousness of the US public and a half-empty stadium filled mainly by ex-pats.
According to reports, World Rugby had to pitch in with a financial rescue package to bail out the organisers of the match after it failed to hit the break-even target of 27,000 spectators through the turnstiles.
The official attendance was 21 357, according to the Wales Online website - less than HALF the stadium's 45 596 capacity.
Quite what SA Rugby's share of the revenue will be, remains to be seen.
Despite a dramatic finale, the first half in particular was one of the worst played in recent memory - by the Springboks in particular - and was dominated by poor handling and a mind-numbing amount of reset scrums, as Wales recorded their third consecutive win over South Africa 22-20.
Talking the game to a new audience should be applauded, but there was an unsatisfactory feel to the whole occasion.
https://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Springboks/springboks-v-wales-a-flop-at-the-turnstiles-20180603
Wales and SAF get $750k each, it was a fixed fee.
I actually think 21k crowd is not too bad in the circumstances. The circumstances being that RIM arranged the match )without much lead in) but then ran out of money to promote it.
Still a debacle though.
Not sure on the repercussions to USARU on the impending banckruptcynof RIM beyond them not making profitable dividends to pay out for event hosting such as this.
As in will USARU get their 'rights' that they invested in RIM back, if so when?
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Classic comment on the WalesOnline web site:
“The last time rugby this poor was on C4, Ross from 'Friends' was trying to impress his English girlfriend.”
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What I never understood about this game was who was playing and where.
SA vs Wales in Washington DC? Gettnig 20k to this was a pretty good achievment given that:
- USA wasn't playing
- Neither SA or Wales are the world champs / highest ranked team
- DC itself is not actually that large
- Neither coach played a full strength team
Don't know too much about Welsh expats (am sure there are a few), but there certainly are loads of jaapies there. Although a lot would have been turned off by the team that was sent.
Even if I lived in DC, I doubt I would have bothered going.
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@mikethesnow said in WALES JUNE TOUR: SA IN DC, ARGENTINA:
Classic comment on the WalesOnline web site:
“The last time rugby this poor was on C4, Ross from 'Friends' was trying to impress his English girlfriend.”
Question for you Mike. Gatland has come out about his disappointment that the Premiership Clubs did not release their players for this match and it does seem a bit petty to me, seeing as it is at the end of the club season, but then you also have to ask what are Wales doing organising the match outside the International window - why?
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@majorrage said in WALES JUNE TOUR: SA IN DC, ARGENTINA:
What I never understood about this game was who was playing and where.
SA vs Wales in Washington DC? Gettnig 20k to this was a pretty good achievment given that:
- USA wasn't playing
- Neither SA or Wales are the world champs / highest ranked team
- DC itself is not actually that large
- Neither coach played a full strength team
Don't know too much about Welsh expats (am sure there are a few), but there certainly are loads of jaapies there. Although a lot would have been turned off by the team that was sent.
Even if I lived in DC, I doubt I would have bothered going.
Historically a lot of Welsh in neighbouring state Pennsylvania, but a stronger contingent in other areas of the US, and Canada.
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@majorrage said in WALES JUNE TOUR: SA IN DC, ARGENTINA:
What I never understood about this game was who was playing and where.
SA vs Wales in Washington DC? Gettnig 20k to this was a pretty good achievment given that:
- USA wasn't playing
- Neither SA or Wales are the world champs / highest ranked team
- DC itself is not actually that large
- Neither coach played a full strength team
Don't know too much about Welsh expats (am sure there are a few), but there certainly are loads of jaapies there. Although a lot would have been turned off by the team that was sent.
Even if I lived in DC, I doubt I would have bothered going.
Think this is the problem.
My cousin has lived in Chicago for close to 30 years and comes home at least once each season to watch Wales play.
But didn't go to D.C.
And time & money weren't factors.
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@majorrage said in WALES JUNE TOUR: SA IN DC, ARGENTINA:
- DC itself is not actually that large
I imagine DC was chosen because of the relatively large expat SA community in nearby Maryland/Virginia and/or it is one of the only cities in the US they can fly direct back to SA.
Outside of the home team, NZ, Ireland and possibly England (hasn't been tested) I don't think the quality of opposition really moves the needle. In Toronto which has had a steady diet of Tier 1/2 nations each year did approx 12k for both Fiji vs Japan and Canada vs Italy. NZ Maori pulled 22k, Ireland vs Canada pulled 20k.
Like you said all things considered I think 20k is a bloody good achievement.
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@catogrande said in WALES JUNE TOUR: SA IN DC, ARGENTINA:
@mikethesnow said in WALES JUNE TOUR: SA IN DC, ARGENTINA:
Classic comment on the WalesOnline web site:
“The last time rugby this poor was on C4, Ross from 'Friends' was trying to impress his English girlfriend.”
Question for you Mike. Gatland has come out about his disappointment that the Premiership Clubs did not release their players for this match and it does seem a bit petty to me, seeing as it is at the end of the club season, but then you also have to ask what are Wales doing organising the match outside the International window - why?
Not sure tbh
Historically Gatland / WRU have scheduled tests outside the International Window during the NH Autumn.
Could Argentina and Wales sustain a 3 test series? Doubtful
So aside from a test v Canada or the US that leaves Wales with only two matches this NH Summer.
Was it part of Major League Rugby's strategy to raise the profile of the game in the US? If so, failed on so many counts.
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DC is a dive. And if 20,000 is a good achievement, then wtf were they doing scheduling it in a stadium that holds more than twice that number? It was more than half-empty ffs.
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@mikethesnow said in WALES JUNE TOUR: SA IN DC, ARGENTINA:
@majorrage said in WALES JUNE TOUR: SA IN DC, ARGENTINA:
What I never understood about this game was who was playing and where.
SA vs Wales in Washington DC? Gettnig 20k to this was a pretty good achievment given that:
- USA wasn't playing
- Neither SA or Wales are the world champs / highest ranked team
- DC itself is not actually that large
- Neither coach played a full strength team
Don't know too much about Welsh expats (am sure there are a few), but there certainly are loads of jaapies there. Although a lot would have been turned off by the team that was sent.
Even if I lived in DC, I doubt I would have bothered going.
Historically a lot of Welsh in neighbouring state Pennsylvania, but a stronger contingent in other areas of the US, and Canada.
A decade ago I saw England B and Ireland play test matches in a cornfield outside Toronto (Markham) with 10,000 spectators and would not have been surprised that Welsh rugby supporters outnumbered Poms and Paddies at each. With a much better venue now available in Toronto, I have no doubts whatsoever a Wales v. Boks test match would have filled all 25,000 seats. 25/25 always looks better than 20/45. Philadelpha is a mercurial sports city, but I suspect they would have drawn far better than DC.
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@salacious-crumb said in WALES JUNE TOUR: SA IN DC, ARGENTINA:
A decade ago I saw England B and Ireland play test matches in a cornfield outside Toronto (Markham) with 10,000 spectators and would not have been surprised that Welsh rugby supporters outnumbered Poms and Paddies at each. With a much better venue now available in Toronto, I have no doubts whatsoever a Wales v. Boks test match would have filled all 25,000 seats. 25/25 always looks better than 20/45. Philadelpha is a mercurial sports city, but I suspect they would have drawn far better than DC.
BMO recently upgraded to 30k which would be a stretch. Aside from the NZ Maori & Ireland vs Canada games there it's been a struggle to get anything over 10k without double and triple headers. Even the Canada/USA WC qualifier in Hamilton drew 13k.
Absolutely no chance that Wales vs South Africa gets 20k in Toronto at this time of year IMO. Newcastle vs Saracens played outside Philly earlier in the season and did ~7k, maybe an international fixture draws similar to DC? The lack of a central mid sized stadium in places like NYC, San Francisco or Philly make it tricky to play these fixtures without embarrassingly empty stadiums.
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@salacious-crumb said in WALES JUNE TOUR: SA IN DC, ARGENTINA:
DC is a dive. And if 20,000 is a good achievement, then wtf were they doing scheduling it in a stadium that holds more than twice that number? It was more than half-empty ffs.
people write optimistic business cases, and wave around big appearance fees. Because, y'know, we're all 'worth it'. A test match without front line players, held in America, that's clearly for money -- we could have learned something from Rugby League and the debacle that will unfold for them shortly.
Losing money may cause this to be re-thunk
