Blues v Sharks
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@nzzp said in Blues v Sharks:
@hooroo said in Blues v Sharks:
Thing is you have been hopeless for so long and everyone is still blaming the current coach..... That's hilarious. Yes he is hopeless but he isn't the Blues problem. He was put there by the problem
Yep, this.
IF a coach is bad, no worries. If all coaches are bad, check the board and front office. The administrators of the Blues are shambolic,a nd I have not seen anything to improve my view of that. Our talent scouting, pathways and general competence is horrific.
People blamed Tana, they blamed JK, they blamed Pat Lam, they blamed whoever the fark was there before them - but ultimately the rest of the framework blows. Under central contracting, there is no benefit to being in Auckland. No extra money, loads of extra costs. Why the hell would you live there as a Super player?
A new coach will not fix these issues.
There's no shortage of talent in that squad. Seems that brains and leadership are in chronically short supply though. A halfdecent 10 would also be nice.
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Update on my 5 year old sons PTSD after the massacre he witnessed on Sat: he was playing out a game of rugby with his toys that involved the Blues, and he completed the game by saying: "the Blues lost again. They'll just have to try harder next time".
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@no-quarter Hooray for those red toys! Blue toys will need counselling - it's not their fault.
Get the boy a Richie McCaw poster and a Crusaders' jersey NQ - it's what any responsible parent would do!
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@rancid-schnitzel said in Blues v Sharks:
There's no shortage of talent in that squad. Seems that brains and leadership are in chronically short supply though. A halfdecent 10 would also be nice.
There is no half decent 10. They need to actually learn to just deal with that.
Now what a high school coach would do is play a steady hand at 10 and move all the plays out one or short side (to your ace winger, maybe?). Or play a fullback like DMac.
But the Blues coaches insist on trying to play an ace running 10 because other franchises do. So they take punts on the "next big thing" instead of moving heaven and earth to get a Tom Taylor who was being shafted by his own province and was going to kick goals and not stuff up.
This is one huge advantage of making coaches earn their stripes in lower grades. They get their heads out of the way top quality rugby "should" be played and see the game afresh.
It's not that school teachers make better coaches it's that years of coaching schoolboy rugby opens you up to other ways of doing things. You are forced to make do.
Silly thing is, Auckland had Grant Fox -- the least running 10 in the history of the game -- and smoked opposition with him running the show.
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I can't believe a few of you guys are already writing off Perofeta! Do you realise you're talking about a 21-year-old with only 6 SR games under his belt? Or aren't players allowed to develop and grow anymore and are they supposed to reach SR level before they start playing at SR level? Geez. Give the guy a break!
Some of you Blues fans, and also the Auckland based media, love to blame the 10 for all or most of your troubles. I have said it before, and I'll say it again, if your 10 is not functioning as you want him to - especially if it happens every damn year, whoever is playing in the 10 jersey - then maybe the problem is not (just) the player who's wearing the 10 jersey, but the people who are supposed to coach and train him and/or the players surrounding him on the field. And not just the 9 either.
I've objected to the way West was treated by the media and fans the last few years, and some of you interpreted that as me (with my Hawke's Bay glasses on) sticking up for one of the players of the team I support in the NPC, well, you were wrong. I also object to the way you're now treating Perofeta. Perofeta has all the promise of becoming way more than a "half decent 10". You just need to give him time. Ideally, he would have had the opportunity to learn from a more experienced player. That player was supposed to be Otere Black, who unfortunately got a serious injury. Perofeta has been thrown into the deep end. Mayby you should think about that for a minute.
-- End of rant --
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I find it a bit silly that Perofeta has seemingly been chucked on the 'not up to it' pile after a handful of games. Seriously, what do you expect from a guy who is a couple of games into his Super rugby career? What the Blues need at 10 isn't a guy who is just going to stand deep and fling the ball on to the others every time. They have had that and it didn't work. Perofeta is probably the most promising 10 they have had since Evans and Nacewa.
They also recruited Black to be the first choice while Perofeta developed. Not their fault he got injured before playing a game.I think the overall Blues problem is a combination of factors adding up to a big disfunctional mess.
Tana has made some mistakes eg. Tactics, recruitment, selections. But he has also done some good things eg. Recruiting SBW, Black and Pulu SHOULD have resulted in a decent Super level 9-10-12 combination but multiple injuries have messed that up. Who knows if Tana is a good enough coach to pull them out of the mud. It might be too far gone for him.The senior players need to take a large amount of blame for the pathetic performances too. There are enough guys there with enough experience to build a team around but they are just failing to step up. Parsons, Pulu, Kaino, Pat T, Tupou, Moala and SBW have been around long enough that they shouldn't need a coach to remind them they require a spine.
I don't know much about what is happening at an organisational level but it sounds like a mess too.
So in conclusion, firing Tana isn't going to be a golden bullet and signing Beauden Barrett isn't going to be a golden bullet it is much more complex than that.
What are Robbie Deans and Mark Hammett doing next season? -
@chris-b said in Blues v Sharks:
@no-quarter Hooray for those red toys! Blue toys will need counselling - it's not their fault.
Get the boy a Richie McCaw poster and a Crusaders' jersey NQ - it's what any responsible parent would do!
cough 29-19 cough
Was thinking more along the lines of a Beauden Barrett poster and a Canes jersey if it comes to that...
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@tim said in Blues v Sharks:
It's remarkable that the NZRU hasn't stepped in long ago to sort out the Blues. They're their biggest and highest income market. Basic business incompetence not to execute in your biggest market.
Looks like the IRB is reading your textbook!
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@no-quarter said in Blues v Sharks:
@chris-b said in Blues v Sharks:
@no-quarter Hooray for those red toys! Blue toys will need counselling - it's not their fault.
Get the boy a Richie McCaw poster and a Crusaders' jersey NQ - it's what any responsible parent would do!
cough 29-19 cough
Was thinking more along the lines of a Beauden Barrett poster and a Canes jersey if it comes to that...
A veerrry short term plan.
The people who made buzzy bees painted them red (not yellow) for a reason - so they'd always be on the same side as the big red firetruck that smashes the fuck out of everything else!
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@chester-draws said in Blues v Sharks:
Now what a high school coach would do is play a steady hand at 10 and move all the plays out one or short side (to your ace winger, maybe?). Or play a fullback like DMac.
But the Blues coaches insist on trying to play an ace running 10 because other franchises do. So they take punts on the "next big thing" instead of moving heaven and earth to get a Tom Taylor who was being shafted by his own province and was going to kick goals and not stuff up.
Silly thing is, Auckland had Grant Fox -- the least running 10 in the history of the game -- and smoked opposition with him running the show.Yeah cos those steady hands at 10 have really worked out well for the Blues in the past (Noakes, Francis etc).....
Perofeta just needs game time (it was only his 2nd ever start for the Blues ffs) - he looked really good once again with his running and passing skills but his decision making and kicking need a lot of work - which is not all that surprising. To label him not up to it at this stage is ridiculous.
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@kiwimurph said in Blues v Sharks:
Perofeta just needs game time (it was only his 2nd ever start for the Blues ffs) - he looked really good once again with his running and passing skills but his decision making and kicking need a lot of work - which is not all that surprising. To label him not up to it at this stage is ridiculous.
He's had two games. How many more do you want to give him? Time to find someone else, preferably still playing 1st XV at school.
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@chester-draws said in Blues v Sharks:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Blues v Sharks:
There's no shortage of talent in that squad. Seems that brains and leadership are in chronically short supply though. A halfdecent 10 would also be nice.
There is no half decent 10. They need to actually learn to just deal with that.
Now what a high school coach would do is play a steady hand at 10 and move all the plays out one or short side (to your ace winger, maybe?). Or play a fullback like DMac.
But the Blues coaches insist on trying to play an ace running 10 because other franchises do. So they take punts on the "next big thing" instead of moving heaven and earth to get a Tom Taylor who was being shafted by his own province and was going to kick goals and not stuff up.
This is one huge advantage of making coaches earn their stripes in lower grades. They get their heads out of the way top quality rugby "should" be played and see the game afresh.
It's not that school teachers make better coaches it's that years of coaching schoolboy rugby opens you up to other ways of doing things. You are forced to make do.
Silly thing is, Auckland had Grant Fox -- the least running 10 in the history of the game -- and smoked opposition with him running the show.
I'm aware there hasn't been a decent 10 which is why I said it would be nice for the Blues to have one. It seems to me theyve had more than a few steady hands at 10.
As mentioned, the biggest problem is a crippling lack of brains and leadership.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in Blues v Sharks:
@chester-draws said in Blues v Sharks:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Blues v Sharks:
There's no shortage of talent in that squad. Seems that brains and leadership are in chronically short supply though. A halfdecent 10 would also be nice.
There is no half decent 10. They need to actually learn to just deal with that.
Now what a high school coach would do is play a steady hand at 10 and move all the plays out one or short side (to your ace winger, maybe?). Or play a fullback like DMac.
But the Blues coaches insist on trying to play an ace running 10 because other franchises do. So they take punts on the "next big thing" instead of moving heaven and earth to get a Tom Taylor who was being shafted by his own province and was going to kick goals and not stuff up.
This is one huge advantage of making coaches earn their stripes in lower grades. They get their heads out of the way top quality rugby "should" be played and see the game afresh.
It's not that school teachers make better coaches it's that years of coaching schoolboy rugby opens you up to other ways of doing things. You are forced to make do.
Silly thing is, Auckland had Grant Fox -- the least running 10 in the history of the game -- and smoked opposition with him running the show.
I'm aware there hasn't been a decent 10 which is why I said it would be nice for the Blues to have one. It seems to me theyve had more than a few steady hands at 10.
As mentioned, the biggest problem is a crippling lack of brains and leadership.
Particularly at five-eighth...
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Actually, I thought Francis went OK. Better than the current crop. They could have built with him.
But you misunderstand anyway. It's not that they have to play those guys. They need to change what they expect them to do. You can't play Francis and expect him to be Carlos Spencer.
But they looked at him after season, didn't see the Carlos magic, so ditched him. People saw Francis, went "plodder", and he was gone because NZ coaches and fans refuse to accept that not every first five has to be a genius.
And so it will go on, until either they get lucky and some kid survives playing with a team designed to smash any confidence in a first five, or they get a coach that moves on and stops trying to always find the next Carlos.
The Blues have been "rebuilding" for a decade. They need to stop it, because it isn't working, and just work with what they have.
However Tana has to go. He's apparently incapable of thinking that way. So all the chopping and changing gets worse rather than better.
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@antipodean I would think a Waratahs fans would be a bit more quiet on this thread. If you want to talk about resources and under-achievement...
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@mariner4life said in Blues v Sharks:
@antipodean I would think a Waratahs fans would be a bit more quiet on this thread. If you want to talk about resources and under-achievement...
I could point to the newly formed Brumbies stealing all our future Wallabies. Then having to support the ARU and the useless, slow witted northern neighbours through the expansion of Australian rugby.
Quite frankly it's a wonder we've done as well as we have.
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@antipodean said in Blues v Sharks:
@mariner4life said in Blues v Sharks:
@antipodean I would think a Waratahs fans would be a bit more quiet on this thread. If you want to talk about resources and under-achievement...
I could point to the newly formed Brumbies stealing all our future Wallabies. Then having to support the ARU and the useless, slow witted northern neighbours through the expansion of Australian rugby.
Quite frankly it's a wonder we've done as well as we have.
are you running Warner's PR? Because that's the worst attempt at a sob story i have ever heard.
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@mariner4life said in Blues v Sharks:
@antipodean said in Blues v Sharks:
@mariner4life said in Blues v Sharks:
@antipodean I would think a Waratahs fans would be a bit more quiet on this thread. If you want to talk about resources and under-achievement...
I could point to the newly formed Brumbies stealing all our future Wallabies. Then having to support the ARU and the useless, slow witted northern neighbours through the expansion of Australian rugby.
Quite frankly it's a wonder we've done as well as we have.
are you running Warner's PR? Because that's the worst attempt at a sob story i have ever heard.
I'd start with a slow panning shot of a rusting, quiet Concord Oval bathed in early sunlight mist. Que voice over of crippling debt and interspersed footage of legends stolen not just by other clubs, but league. Add to that an enveloping darkness from across the pond to scare the kids...
Painting Warner as a erudite genius driven to succeed for the greater glory of all Australians and misguided role model for his children, defender of the virtue and honour of his childhood sweetheart would be a piece of piss.
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@chester-draws Perofeta plays 1 bad game and all of a sudden the Blues want every 10 to be Carlos? I don't buy it. The Blues brought in Gatland and Black this year who both play nothing like Carlos or have been asked to play like Carlos.
They weren't expecting Francis to be Carlos - Francis to me was much better suited to 12 rather than 10 and left to take up an opportunity to play for England - I don't think staying in NZ was an option for Francis when that chance became available.
The issue with West was that he couldn't control a game from 10 - his field punting especially was weak and for the most part he didn't have anyone to take the pressure off in this regard - I'm not really sure what this has to do with Carlos - West is best suited to a bench impact role (which he excelled at last season for the Blues) as the game generally has opened up and he is able to use his running game more. See the one game West started for the Canes this season at 10 - a very poor performance.
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@antipodean don't forget the eroding of the importance of the Shute Shield, just to get the blazers* really frothing.
*actually, from what i can see, the uniform of the average 'tahs supporter is jeans, brown leather shoes, a checked shirt, sports coat and scarf.
