AB Positions up for grabs
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As a 6/8, I rate Taufua behind Kaino, Fifita, Ioane, Shields, Whitelock, and Read in NZ. He's basically behind almost all the starting 6/8s in the NZ conference except for the Chiefs guys.
I think if he's been given a word by Hansen, it's probably to play for that third hooker spot....
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@dice said in AB Positions up for grabs:
As a 6/8, I rate Taufua behind Kaino, Fifita, Ioane, Shields, Whitelock, and Read in NZ. He's basically behind almost all the starting 6/8s in the NZ conference except for the Chiefs guys.
I think if he's been given a word by Hansen, it's probably to play for that third hooker spot....
Fifita isn't a 6/8, he's a lock/6.
Whitelock as a 6 is a stretch as well.
Taufua as a hooker would be awesome. Pity he didn't make that call years ago. Plenty of other short loosies have.
I think Ioane beats him out for test rugby, if only due to size. Taufua is a better 8 than Akira though. Akira gets lost playing 8, he needs to be near the breakdown to get involved.
Shields is a pom, Kaino is leaving.....
I do think the selectors are searching for options in a versatile loosie though. My thinking is that a 6/lock is too hard to find for the highest level and they will abandon any search in that direction and just have some agile locks that can fill in (eg SB)
Squire is OK, but not demanding selection.
This year is all about getting the right players in place to create the RWC squad jigsaw. It isn't as simple as best/second best per position. A versatile loosie in the squad can give an option of resting a niggle in a pool game. -
@crucial I know those guys aren't all playing 6 and 8, but the point I was trying to make was that he's behind all of those guys at at least one of those positions.
I know Shields and Kaino are off, but I mentioned them to show where he sits in the NZ conference as either a 6 or an 8. Last year was even worse because you'd have to add Luatua and Leitch to the list.
I use to think African Monkey was playing around when he said Taufua was a flat track bully, but then I started to notice more and more that he'd often disappear against good backrow trios. He's a decent player, but he comes off as a low ceiling Test player to me.
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Taufua is definitely an impact type guy at higher levels rather than a starter IMO.
One of the things I think the selectors are after is the players that will come of the bench and make that hit from nowhere or charge with high energy and get a tiring opposition back-pedalling. Squire can do that but doesn't do it consistently. Fifita is a work in progress and like Ardie is more an athlete than a bruiser.
Time will tell but I do think Taufua is worth a look at to fill a role. -
I guess I must be one of the few who doesn't rate Taufua.
I'm with you. I've seen nothing much that says AB.
I'm not a big fan of the "he'll never let you down" players as ABs. A player at that level needs to bring something positive, that will open other sides or force errors. Hence SBW, for all his flaws, is more use than a player who makes less mistakes but other sides can easily contain.
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Taufua will run into the same problem Ardie has at test level - bigger players. Energy will only get you so far.
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@no-quarter said in AB Positions up for grabs:
Taufua will run into the same problem Ardie has at test level - bigger players. Energy will only get you so far.
That's why the question of what role Taufua would play is important.
According to the stats I looked at Ardie is listed at 100kgs, but Jordan is 108kgs - so significantly bigger. In fact Taufua is the same height and weight as Richie McCaw - which is great if he was a specialist seven.
But he's not - he's specialised at 6 and 8 and there, he'd be giving away 10 cm to Kaino and marginally less to Read. As discussed many times - that's a free lineout jump to someone in the opposition.
However - if he's looked at as a bench option that can potentially cover all the loose forward options, then there might be a role for him. He's played a bit of seven - mainly for Counties, I think. And we can survive for 25 minutes of a test with one less lineout option if he's otherwise the best man for the job.
I like Jordan - good attitude, gives 100 percent and a pretty effective ball carrier. In 2015 he was easily the Crusaders best forward when his team mates were resting up for the RWC.
Worth a shot.
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@chris-b Is Taufua the same height as Richie? He used to be just under 6 feet tall (182cm) and now he's a little over 6 feet 1(1.87)? Maybe he had a late growth spurt and his height wasn't updated until recently?
If he's really 1.87 then his height isn't really a barrier, that's not much shorter than Messam who carved out a decent test career as a 6.
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@nepia That's always something of a question. I see he's listed at 187 cm on both Wiki and the Crusaders websites.
I do think rugby being "a game of inches" matters in the lineout though. If you go with:
Kaino 1.96
Messam 1.9
Taufua 1.87Messam is 6cm less than Kaino, but Taufua is 9cm.
A spring-heeled Messam might be able to disrupt a Kaino, but Jordan's still being towered over.
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@chris-b said in AB Positions up for grabs:
@nepia That's always something of a question. I see he's listed at 187 cm on both Wiki and the Crusaders websites.
I do think rugby being "a game of inches" matters in the lineout though. If you go with:
Kaino 1.96
Messam 1.9
Taufua 1.87Messam is 6cm less than Kaino, but Taufua is 9cm.
A spring-heeled Messam might be able to disrupt a Kaino, but Jordan's still being towered over.
I guess it matters less in the lineout if we have other targets but with him there we reduce our options.
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@nepia Yeah - though when I think back to the days of our lineout throwers (Anton, Kev) being rubbish it was when we had Williams and Jack as primary lineout targets and Richie, Jerry and Rodders all being a bit short.
Shift to having Kaino and Read in the mix (and Retallick and Whitelock as tall locks) and suddenly the lineout's a weapon and one that I'd be reluctant to compromise much.
At least if he's paired with Read, we'd still have three good targets.
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@bovidae said in AB Positions up for grabs:
Kaino isn't used that much as a lineout target for the ABs. Read, Whitelock and BBBR (in order).
I'd also take these heights with a huge grain of salt as many aren't as tall as listed in the player stats.
but Kaino's height and power makes him a weapon as a lifter. A shorter lifter is equally as useless as a shorter jumper.
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@mariner4life said in AB Positions up for grabs:
but Kaino's height and power makes him a weapon as a lifter. A shorter lifter is equally as useless as a shorter jumper.
Sure, also helps when the props are tall too. Think back to Hayman, and Crockett now.
Shorter loosies are often good at the front of the lineout.
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They should do a tail of the tape for each player before matches then we wouldn't be arguing. It wouldn't be as boring as most pre match shows and might spur on tubby forwards and fat fluffybunny backs like Basteraud and Andy Goode to get in test match shape.
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Hamish Bidwell has full on genious brain:
Bidwell: I really like Ardie Savea at No 8. With Sam Cane and Matt Todd so adept at seven, it might be worth Savea considering a shift. Physically he's not the biggest, but he does things a lot of your traditional No.8s can't.
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Does Bidwell watch rugby?
