AB Positions up for grabs
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@sammyc said in AB Positions up for grabs:
@crucial said in AB Positions up for grabs:
@tim said in AB Positions up for grabs:
The one you've been waiting for, Blindside Flanker.
With Kaino's career winding down this is a huge season for those wearing the six jersey. His replacements last year were unimpressive to say the least. Neither imposed any presence down the blindside channel on defence, with Fifita's workrate inconsistent, and Squire's non-existent. All Black ruck defence was particularly poor last year, and was exploited twice by Australia. Of the two, Fifita has the most athletic potential, though seems better adapted to power lock play at this stage of his career.
The Contenders:
Jerome Kaino - the greatest of all time, does he have another season left? If well managed he probably has a partial one. Must watch injuries though. Will not play all games, even if his form returns dramatically.
Fifita - excellent athlete learning a difficult position. Reminder that Kaino took several years to grow into the position. So did Luatua. Could be the answer, would help to get more time at six this Super Rugby season.
Squire - good ball carrier, flat-track bully. See his performance against the Crusaders in last year's playoff game. Went missing when up against top notch opposition. Very little physical impact in Brisbane against Australia. Needs a massive improvement in workrate and defensive presence.
Ioane - another outstanding young athlete who is still learning the role. Very strong, hits rucks and gains turnovers, physical defender, excellent ball carrier. Needs to improve decision making and workrate consistency. Will play at eight a lot, but has had his best games at six. Future All Black star. Should be developed for the World Cup. Should benefit from his second season playing XVs exclusively.
Hemopo and Evans are the outsiders. Barrett may get some time there for the ABs.
A potential weakness for the All Blacks.
So @jauzy019 has posted an article from France where Taufua has turned down club contracts in France due to 'Hansen promising to give him a crack'
Even taking that with a pinch of salt it means they have talked to him and given him confidence that he may be in the picture.Bloody good news. Been one of the crusaders best forwards for a number of years. Would provide more impact off the bench than savea.
Like others I wonder about his lack of size, but that’s not an issue at super rugby.
Mainly I’m just stoked he may be at the crusaders for a bit longer
Maybe that's part of the thinking - have him as a jack of all trades bench loosie covering all 3 spots a bit like Masoe was.
Not convinced by his abilty to be an outright starter at any of the 3 loose forward spots for the ABs but could be worth a shot to see if he can have bench impact.
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@sammyc Maybe extended time as back 3 cover for the ABs will see him move to 7 where his size wont hinder his starting chances?
TBH, I think his form last year would have seen him further away from the ABs than in the previous years - or am I mis-remembering last years form?
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@rapido I'd be surprised if we don't see a fair bit of Jordie at fullback for the Hurricanes. He seems to be hoping to get some time in the midfield, but I tend to think his height is more advantageous at fullback than in the midfield.
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@kiwimurph said in AB Positions up for grabs:
@sammyc said in AB Positions up for grabs:
@crucial said in AB Positions up for grabs:
@tim said in AB Positions up for grabs:
The one you've been waiting for, Blindside Flanker.
With Kaino's career winding down this is a huge season for those wearing the six jersey. His replacements last year were unimpressive to say the least. Neither imposed any presence down the blindside channel on defence, with Fifita's workrate inconsistent, and Squire's non-existent. All Black ruck defence was particularly poor last year, and was exploited twice by Australia. Of the two, Fifita has the most athletic potential, though seems better adapted to power lock play at this stage of his career.
The Contenders:
Jerome Kaino - the greatest of all time, does he have another season left? If well managed he probably has a partial one. Must watch injuries though. Will not play all games, even if his form returns dramatically.
Fifita - excellent athlete learning a difficult position. Reminder that Kaino took several years to grow into the position. So did Luatua. Could be the answer, would help to get more time at six this Super Rugby season.
Squire - good ball carrier, flat-track bully. See his performance against the Crusaders in last year's playoff game. Went missing when up against top notch opposition. Very little physical impact in Brisbane against Australia. Needs a massive improvement in workrate and defensive presence.
Ioane - another outstanding young athlete who is still learning the role. Very strong, hits rucks and gains turnovers, physical defender, excellent ball carrier. Needs to improve decision making and workrate consistency. Will play at eight a lot, but has had his best games at six. Future All Black star. Should be developed for the World Cup. Should benefit from his second season playing XVs exclusively.
Hemopo and Evans are the outsiders. Barrett may get some time there for the ABs.
A potential weakness for the All Blacks.
So @jauzy019 has posted an article from France where Taufua has turned down club contracts in France due to 'Hansen promising to give him a crack'
Even taking that with a pinch of salt it means they have talked to him and given him confidence that he may be in the picture.Bloody good news. Been one of the crusaders best forwards for a number of years. Would provide more impact off the bench than savea.
Like others I wonder about his lack of size, but that’s not an issue at super rugby.
Mainly I’m just stoked he may be at the crusaders for a bit longer
Maybe that's part of the thinking - have him as a jack of all trades bench loosie covering all 3 spots a bit like Masoe was.
Not convinced by his abilty to be an outright starter at any of the 3 loose forward spots for the ABs but could be worth a shot to see if he can have bench impact.
I thought Dixon might become that player, but Taufua looks a much better bet, s this is good news.
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@gt12 said in AB Positions up for grabs:
@kiwimurph said in AB Positions up for grabs:
@sammyc said in AB Positions up for grabs:
@crucial said in AB Positions up for grabs:
@tim said in AB Positions up for grabs:
The one you've been waiting for, Blindside Flanker.
With Kaino's career winding down this is a huge season for those wearing the six jersey. His replacements last year were unimpressive to say the least. Neither imposed any presence down the blindside channel on defence, with Fifita's workrate inconsistent, and Squire's non-existent. All Black ruck defence was particularly poor last year, and was exploited twice by Australia. Of the two, Fifita has the most athletic potential, though seems better adapted to power lock play at this stage of his career.
The Contenders:
Jerome Kaino - the greatest of all time, does he have another season left? If well managed he probably has a partial one. Must watch injuries though. Will not play all games, even if his form returns dramatically.
Fifita - excellent athlete learning a difficult position. Reminder that Kaino took several years to grow into the position. So did Luatua. Could be the answer, would help to get more time at six this Super Rugby season.
Squire - good ball carrier, flat-track bully. See his performance against the Crusaders in last year's playoff game. Went missing when up against top notch opposition. Very little physical impact in Brisbane against Australia. Needs a massive improvement in workrate and defensive presence.
Ioane - another outstanding young athlete who is still learning the role. Very strong, hits rucks and gains turnovers, physical defender, excellent ball carrier. Needs to improve decision making and workrate consistency. Will play at eight a lot, but has had his best games at six. Future All Black star. Should be developed for the World Cup. Should benefit from his second season playing XVs exclusively.
Hemopo and Evans are the outsiders. Barrett may get some time there for the ABs.
A potential weakness for the All Blacks.
So @jauzy019 has posted an article from France where Taufua has turned down club contracts in France due to 'Hansen promising to give him a crack'
Even taking that with a pinch of salt it means they have talked to him and given him confidence that he may be in the picture.Bloody good news. Been one of the crusaders best forwards for a number of years. Would provide more impact off the bench than savea.
Like others I wonder about his lack of size, but that’s not an issue at super rugby.
Mainly I’m just stoked he may be at the crusaders for a bit longer
Maybe that's part of the thinking - have him as a jack of all trades bench loosie covering all 3 spots a bit like Masoe was.
Not convinced by his abilty to be an outright starter at any of the 3 loose forward spots for the ABs but could be worth a shot to see if he can have bench impact.
I thought Dixon might become that player, but Taufua looks a much better bet, s this is good news.
I guess I must be one of the few who doesn't rate Taufua.
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@mimic said in AB Positions up for grabs:
@gt12 said in AB Positions up for grabs:
@kiwimurph said in AB Positions up for grabs:
@sammyc said in AB Positions up for grabs:
@crucial said in AB Positions up for grabs:
@tim said in AB Positions up for grabs:
The one you've been waiting for, Blindside Flanker.
With Kaino's career winding down this is a huge season for those wearing the six jersey. His replacements last year were unimpressive to say the least. Neither imposed any presence down the blindside channel on defence, with Fifita's workrate inconsistent, and Squire's non-existent. All Black ruck defence was particularly poor last year, and was exploited twice by Australia. Of the two, Fifita has the most athletic potential, though seems better adapted to power lock play at this stage of his career.
The Contenders:
Jerome Kaino - the greatest of all time, does he have another season left? If well managed he probably has a partial one. Must watch injuries though. Will not play all games, even if his form returns dramatically.
Fifita - excellent athlete learning a difficult position. Reminder that Kaino took several years to grow into the position. So did Luatua. Could be the answer, would help to get more time at six this Super Rugby season.
Squire - good ball carrier, flat-track bully. See his performance against the Crusaders in last year's playoff game. Went missing when up against top notch opposition. Very little physical impact in Brisbane against Australia. Needs a massive improvement in workrate and defensive presence.
Ioane - another outstanding young athlete who is still learning the role. Very strong, hits rucks and gains turnovers, physical defender, excellent ball carrier. Needs to improve decision making and workrate consistency. Will play at eight a lot, but has had his best games at six. Future All Black star. Should be developed for the World Cup. Should benefit from his second season playing XVs exclusively.
Hemopo and Evans are the outsiders. Barrett may get some time there for the ABs.
A potential weakness for the All Blacks.
So @jauzy019 has posted an article from France where Taufua has turned down club contracts in France due to 'Hansen promising to give him a crack'
Even taking that with a pinch of salt it means they have talked to him and given him confidence that he may be in the picture.Bloody good news. Been one of the crusaders best forwards for a number of years. Would provide more impact off the bench than savea.
Like others I wonder about his lack of size, but that’s not an issue at super rugby.
Mainly I’m just stoked he may be at the crusaders for a bit longer
Maybe that's part of the thinking - have him as a jack of all trades bench loosie covering all 3 spots a bit like Masoe was.
Not convinced by his abilty to be an outright starter at any of the 3 loose forward spots for the ABs but could be worth a shot to see if he can have bench impact.
I thought Dixon might become that player, but Taufua looks a much better bet, s this is good news.
I guess I must be one of the few who doesn't rate Taufua.
I rate him as a Super player, and I'm prepared to trust the selectors if they think he can play that role - it's be nice if we had someone who can do that Masoe role in a WC squad.
I wouldn't select him for the ABs right now though, if that was implied. Looks like he'll get a chance though - if that French paper is to be believed...
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As a 6/8, I rate Taufua behind Kaino, Fifita, Ioane, Shields, Whitelock, and Read in NZ. He's basically behind almost all the starting 6/8s in the NZ conference except for the Chiefs guys.
I think if he's been given a word by Hansen, it's probably to play for that third hooker spot....
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@dice said in AB Positions up for grabs:
As a 6/8, I rate Taufua behind Kaino, Fifita, Ioane, Shields, Whitelock, and Read in NZ. He's basically behind almost all the starting 6/8s in the NZ conference except for the Chiefs guys.
I think if he's been given a word by Hansen, it's probably to play for that third hooker spot....
Fifita isn't a 6/8, he's a lock/6.
Whitelock as a 6 is a stretch as well.
Taufua as a hooker would be awesome. Pity he didn't make that call years ago. Plenty of other short loosies have.
I think Ioane beats him out for test rugby, if only due to size. Taufua is a better 8 than Akira though. Akira gets lost playing 8, he needs to be near the breakdown to get involved.
Shields is a pom, Kaino is leaving.....
I do think the selectors are searching for options in a versatile loosie though. My thinking is that a 6/lock is too hard to find for the highest level and they will abandon any search in that direction and just have some agile locks that can fill in (eg SB)
Squire is OK, but not demanding selection.
This year is all about getting the right players in place to create the RWC squad jigsaw. It isn't as simple as best/second best per position. A versatile loosie in the squad can give an option of resting a niggle in a pool game. -
@crucial I know those guys aren't all playing 6 and 8, but the point I was trying to make was that he's behind all of those guys at at least one of those positions.
I know Shields and Kaino are off, but I mentioned them to show where he sits in the NZ conference as either a 6 or an 8. Last year was even worse because you'd have to add Luatua and Leitch to the list.
I use to think African Monkey was playing around when he said Taufua was a flat track bully, but then I started to notice more and more that he'd often disappear against good backrow trios. He's a decent player, but he comes off as a low ceiling Test player to me.
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Taufua is definitely an impact type guy at higher levels rather than a starter IMO.
One of the things I think the selectors are after is the players that will come of the bench and make that hit from nowhere or charge with high energy and get a tiring opposition back-pedalling. Squire can do that but doesn't do it consistently. Fifita is a work in progress and like Ardie is more an athlete than a bruiser.
Time will tell but I do think Taufua is worth a look at to fill a role. -
I guess I must be one of the few who doesn't rate Taufua.
I'm with you. I've seen nothing much that says AB.
I'm not a big fan of the "he'll never let you down" players as ABs. A player at that level needs to bring something positive, that will open other sides or force errors. Hence SBW, for all his flaws, is more use than a player who makes less mistakes but other sides can easily contain.
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Taufua will run into the same problem Ardie has at test level - bigger players. Energy will only get you so far.
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@no-quarter said in AB Positions up for grabs:
Taufua will run into the same problem Ardie has at test level - bigger players. Energy will only get you so far.
That's why the question of what role Taufua would play is important.
According to the stats I looked at Ardie is listed at 100kgs, but Jordan is 108kgs - so significantly bigger. In fact Taufua is the same height and weight as Richie McCaw - which is great if he was a specialist seven.
But he's not - he's specialised at 6 and 8 and there, he'd be giving away 10 cm to Kaino and marginally less to Read. As discussed many times - that's a free lineout jump to someone in the opposition.
However - if he's looked at as a bench option that can potentially cover all the loose forward options, then there might be a role for him. He's played a bit of seven - mainly for Counties, I think. And we can survive for 25 minutes of a test with one less lineout option if he's otherwise the best man for the job.
I like Jordan - good attitude, gives 100 percent and a pretty effective ball carrier. In 2015 he was easily the Crusaders best forward when his team mates were resting up for the RWC.
Worth a shot.
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@chris-b Is Taufua the same height as Richie? He used to be just under 6 feet tall (182cm) and now he's a little over 6 feet 1(1.87)? Maybe he had a late growth spurt and his height wasn't updated until recently?
If he's really 1.87 then his height isn't really a barrier, that's not much shorter than Messam who carved out a decent test career as a 6.
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@nepia That's always something of a question. I see he's listed at 187 cm on both Wiki and the Crusaders websites.
I do think rugby being "a game of inches" matters in the lineout though. If you go with:
Kaino 1.96
Messam 1.9
Taufua 1.87Messam is 6cm less than Kaino, but Taufua is 9cm.
A spring-heeled Messam might be able to disrupt a Kaino, but Jordan's still being towered over.
