Formula 1
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There's no doubt he's a tremendous talent but in my mind he can't be considered the GOAT. To do that requires drives that are seared into the memory as career defining drives. Like Senna at Donnington in 93, Schumacher's 96 drive in the Spanish grand prix.
Hamilton has benefited from a clearly dominant car, stability in regulations and lack of competitive co-drivers. The modern season also has mores races in the calendar.
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@antipodean said in Formula 1:
There's no doubt he's a tremendous talent but in my mind he can't be considered the GOAT. To do that requires drives that are seared into the memory as career defining drives. Like Senna at Donnington in 93, Schumacher's 96 drive in the Spanish grand prix.
Hamilton has benefited from a clearly dominant car, stability in regulations and lack of competitive co-drivers. The modern season also has mores races in the calendar.
Yeah, agree. I mean he's clearly one of the best ever drivers, and i'd argue his Silverstone in the wet is his career defining drive, but it just feels like he's had such a leg up with his car. I mean, Nico Rosberg won a world championship in it = solid, excellent driver, but not a world champion.
If you think what Schumacher did for Ferrari and then what Prost / Senna did for McLaren, it takes them all to the next level. Then you compare what happened to Vettel after he left Red Bull, it just feels like Hamilton is more Vettel than one of the others.
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When Hamilton moved to Mercedes, he was slated for it. It was a new a unproved team, his work with the team is part of the reason they are so dominant. He also has had Champion team mates, I think three times, and beaten them convincingly every time he was with them in the same car. He's pretty fucking rocking. I think it is hard to get those seared in performances with modern cars being so technical, but he is a winning machine. And winning is what counts in pro sport. I think because he is a gob shite, people don't give him his due as a driver. And at least he isn't as dull as paint drying Nigel!
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In terms of multiple world titles it is always the better car that is the factor. Even going back as far as Fangio, he swapped seats halfway though one season to get into a better car.
Currently Mercedes has the better car undoubtedly (though Red Bull are getting closer), but Hamilton has out qualified, out raced and outwitted his team mates, has suffered more than his fair share of team errors (this year) and reliability issues and is still far and away the dominant driver of his generation. He has done this without resorting to running his opponents off the track or benefitting from team orders. His ability to pull out THE lap in qualifying has been amazing, his ability in the wet is again up there with the best as is his sheer speed and racing ability. Moreover he won a world championship in 2008 in not the best car (Ferrari won the constructors title) and he is (I think), the only driver to have one in every season that he has competed).
Is he the best driver ever? Probably not, but his record makes him the GOAT for me.
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@Machpants said in Formula 1:
When Hamilton moved to Mercedes, he was slated for it. It was a new a unproved team, his work with the team is part of the reason they are so dominant. He also has had Champion team mates, I think three times, and beaten them convincingly every time he was with them in the same car. He's pretty fucking rocking. I think it is hard to get those seared in performances with modern cars being so technical, but he is a winning machine. And winning is what counts in pro sport. I think because he is a gob shite, people don't give him his due as a driver. And at least he isn't as dull as paint drying Nigel!
This is the shit that pisses me off about Hamilton fan boys - so much of the above is simply not true.
He has two WC partners and he dominated neither. Fernando Alonso, in 2007, they finished the season equal on points, with Fernando finishing above him on 10 of 18 races. At the end of the season, Alonso quit McLaren because they team clearly favoured Lewis (probably rightly so, given he was a Brit and had been with hem for years).
2008 - credit where it's due, as all the hard work paid off. Beat Kovalienen convincingly (who wasn't a world champion)
2010 / 2011 he had Button, who had pretty much so been a journeyman his entire racing career apart from the one with Brawn in a truly dominant car. He finished above him 2010, Button above him in 2011 - where is this convincingly claim of yours again?
Then he joins Mercedes, which has a pretty decent start, not amazing but decent. And the turbo rule changes come in and boom and he's on the next level. It would be churlish to suggest he didn't play a part in this - of course he did. Him & Rosberg dominated the next few years, with Hamilton certainly the superior driver, but the car playing a huge role in it. Hell, Rosberg even won a WC then promptly retired.
Since then, he's had Bottas as a clear number 2.
He's undoubtedly one of the greatest, but for me, he's not the greatest. You are spot on though about will to win, he has that in spades.
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@Machpants never seen anything like it, the instant explosion was so Hollywood.
Since we knew he was ok, watching the footage from Kvyat's car was pretty funny. Grosjean goes flying across his nose and off into the barrier and you just catch the explosion out the side. Then Kvyat"s head flicking to and fro as he's frantically checking his mirrors.
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@MajorRage said in Formula 1:
So George Russell, a Williams driver whose achieved nothing in F1, has Hamilton’s seat this weekend.
And promptly sets the fastest time in P1.
Not a great look for Bottas.
Puts things in perspective at MB.
Everyone said Russell was quick and deserved something better than the Williams.
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@antipodean said in Formula 1:
@MajorRage said in Formula 1:
So George Russell, a Williams driver whose achieved nothing in F1, has Hamilton’s seat this weekend.
And promptly sets the fastest time in P1.
Not a great look for Bottas.
Puts things in perspective at MB.
Everyone said Russell was quick and deserved something better than the Williams.
Goes to show, as good as a driver can be, they are only one part of the package and if you don't have speed you don't have speed
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Well Bottas squeaked pole with Russell second. This race is going to be interesting. What price Hamilton and Russell at Mercedes next year?
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Just switched over in time to see a team of engineers and mechanics (or whatever) chatting away in the background behind the presenter who's midway through a segue and one of the guys in the background takes a massive nutshot at one of the others. Brilliant.
