Samoa in the shit ... poached like a taupo trout (apparently)
-
@rotated said in Samoa in the shit ... poached like a taupo trout (apparently):
I sure hope they are able to find some money before this transfer fee system England are proposing comes in.
Sounds pretty suspect by all reports - union paying overs for players to stay at board members hotels etc etc - the works. I would be all for a 'death penalty' sanction in the future similar to college athletics where the union could be excluded from international competition and/or World Cups if mismanaged. Yes, you punish the innocent in some instances - but mutiny is a pretty big disincentive for funny business in rugby-passionate countries.
If paying the Head Coach is an issue the NZRU should approach SRU and offer up NZ contracted coaches for a discounted rate. Only have six top tier head coaching spots and obviously one international. Would always nice to be a friendly opening to stash coaches wanting that international experience.
NZRU did pay for Samoa head coach circa 2003 IIRC. Was it John Boe?
-
This is quite an interesting read, by Lee Smith - Oceania Development manager (2001 – 2010) and also a former NZRU development manager
Surprisingly candid.
Don't know why all my google searches to find out info on Samoan rugby funding always comes back with loads of dirt on the Tongan Rugby Union ........ Is there a Samoan employed by Google manipulating the algorithim .....
Funding, once it arrives, maybe used for its intended purpose, but more often than not, it isn’t, it just disappears. When checks are made and funding cannot be accounted for, funding is stopped, but there is still plenty on the list of benefactors to tap into. This is further compromised by the hierarchical society protecting those at the top of the social order especially if it is deemed that the miss-used funding helps the extended family, village, church and community. In these countries there is a superficial democracy. Also be aware that there are informal structures within these societies that go back for hundreds of years and nothing will move without their say so. Organisations such as the IRB have had to put in place systems to ensure accountability. One answer is to put in your own staff, but living in the society, implementing what you want but not what the locals want, can mean that these individuals become isolated and lonely. They can become politically involved to solve the petty corruption, petty by Hanover and Enron standards. This means they take sides. This can be fatal especially if the parent organisation is more sensitive to the opinions of the union establishment than to the job their employee is doing.Some of the bad bits, misappropriation;
Rugby in Tonga reflects what the royalty and aristocracy assume is their right to do unto themselves and to no others. They run their rugby union with this in mind. This has led to growing conflict and IRB dissatisfaction with the union. At the 1995 RWC the Tonga management sold match tickets that were for the players and pocketed the money.More bad bits;
Tonga played Korea in a Rugby World Cup qualifier in Seoul and their next game was a Pan Pacific game against Japan in Tokyo. They went from Seoul to Tokyo and charged the IRB for travel from Seoul to Nuku’alofa to Tokyo pocketing the difference. This was followed by a game in San Francisco against the USA to which they sent 16 players and the union executive and their wives. The union’s development grant was cut in half as a disciplinary measure. We knew we were in trouble when the then CEO resigned only to become Minister of Police. The criteria set out at the time for development funding was flawed as it was based on the assumption that all unions had infrastructure. My fault and they don’t. Recommendations were made to audit, but these were not taken seriously until high-performance funding was made available. The deputy chairman of the IRB visited the union, and at last we had a policy of allowing unions to identify their own needs and to be accountable to them. But even then it has been hard going as, since this time, local autonomy has been used by self-interested groups to undermine any efforts to deliver a high performance programme.yikes;
Appointments It is not always the Tongans who have difficulty. Most of the offshore coaching and managerial talent do a good job, but an indifferent method of selection to these positions can lead to appointments on mate’s rates. The mate’s rates appointment that was most flawed was a New Zealander who was appointed manager for 2003 Rugby World Cup along with the New Zealand coach and entourage. The manager’s credibility was based on family links with Tongan royalty. Prior to the Rugby World Cup, the Japanese had negotiated a tour for the Tongans all expenses paid for, for Rugby World Cup preparation. I was warned about what was happening by Ross Cooper and we met the Japanese CEO Koji Takamasu, who was touring New Zealand with the Japanese “A” team, the Tongan CEO and the manager. The guts of the situation was that preparations for the tour had gone past the point of no return, assisted by the Japanese being people whose word is their bond. The tour was only weeks away and suddenly the Tongans were demanding excessive amounts of training equipment, training gear and apparel. The training gear was to be new at each training venue and from there shipped back to Tonga. In addition, they wanted apparel for each season of the year. The tour was in the summer – fleece tracksuits were not really required. The Japanese were shell shocked, having never struck such a blatant, excessive and dishonourable attitude. The Tonga team manager’s attitude was “take it or leave it”, no compromise. The tour went ahead, but what the manager didn’t realise was that Japanese memories are long. Maybe he didn’t care, he would be long gone.Keep in mind, this article above is from a guy who worked in the region 2001 - 10.
It's relevant from a culture POV.
Is background as to why, I suppose, the IRB is putting governance criteria these days in their grants. -
@rapido Yes, The one I was referring to was the Bob Tuckey affair but as you can see it was a number of years ago and I could not recall the names of the people involved other than they (a faction involved in Tongan rugby) ousted the IRB appointee. But you can see from your searches plenty of instances or utterly gross corruption and it has existed for a fair while. I still hear talk about times when "bolters" were selected in teams so it was not just financial aspects that were under a cloud but also team composition. The latter is probably not so prevalent nowadays, or at least not in the national XVs team but some of the 7s teams do see some "newly discovered talents" on the team list.
One wonders how much longer Sir Gordon Teitjens will remain given the rotating door that the Samoa 7s coaching position seems to have become, often at the behest of the Samoa Rugby CEO and its Board. -
@rapido said in Samoa in the shit ... poached like a taupo trout (apparently):
In the late lamented revenue sharing thread. I estimated that Samoa get NZD$1.7m a year from IRB in direct funding
So on average, a union like Samoa diretly receive £3.4m form the IRB over 4 years. Which is about $7m NZD, plus have about £1.6m of their costs covered via IRB competionsSo Samoa average NZD $1.75m a year in IRB funding.
And benefit from by NZD $0.4m a year by having costs covered when the participate in IRB funded tournaments (HSBC 7s, PNC, Oceania U20s, U20 world cup/trophy, RWC qualifying, Their A team participated in an IRB tournament in Montevideo).
There is an IRB funded bricks on the ground rugby academy in Apia.
Then when Samoa tour they have their in-country costs covered.
Their players are full time professionals in foreign leagues.There is absolutely no reason for them to be losing money and going bankrupt. Follow the money.
Their costs are:
- 15s coach & 7's
- 7's players salaries
- administrators
- local amateur rugby
There is an issue, but it isn't (or shouldn't be bakruptcy)
The issues should be- fair revenue sharing for Tier 2 nations with no domestic revenue source
- governance of PI unions (which is actually being addressed)
This. As the uso Mimic suggested we all know about the corruption but what can anyone do. Tuilaepa Sailele Malielegaoi is completely in control of the situation. He is a gangster and the untouchable type. He steals in full view and laughs at you when he gets caught.
Mo Schwalger brought this to everyones attention a few years back and he said it was heading this way. To the point there would potentially be no SRU. It makes me sad as the older I get the more I feel rooted to Samoa.
-
Sumo's take
Scotty Stevenson: Samoan Rugby Union disrespects the players and the game
The Samoan Rugby Union needs a hand up, not a hand out. It also needs a complete administrative overhaul.
-
@rapido said in Samoa in the shit ... poached like a taupo trout (apparently):
@rotated said in Samoa in the shit ... poached like a taupo trout (apparently):
I sure hope they are able to find some money before this transfer fee system England are proposing comes in.
Sounds pretty suspect by all reports - union paying overs for players to stay at board members hotels etc etc - the works. I would be all for a 'death penalty' sanction in the future similar to college athletics where the union could be excluded from international competition and/or World Cups if mismanaged. Yes, you punish the innocent in some instances - but mutiny is a pretty big disincentive for funny business in rugby-passionate countries.
If paying the Head Coach is an issue the NZRU should approach SRU and offer up NZ contracted coaches for a discounted rate. Only have six top tier head coaching spots and obviously one international. Would always nice to be a friendly opening to stash coaches wanting that international experience.
NZRU did pay for Samoa head coach circa 2003 IIRC. Was it John Boe?
Good memory. Yeah more of that. Imagine being able to say to Rennie he can helm an NPC team and have Samoa in June/Nov - best of both worlds type scenario.
Super Rugby + Internationals would be too much, if the Hammer can't manage it no one can.
-
Revenue sharing, at this point int time at any rate, is not the answer to Samoa's problems says Pichot. It seems that the RFU are now not only funding the costs of Samoa's time in the country (as are the Scots) but also good will gesture of £75K. It would be interesting to know just how much those costs are.
-
Its not just in rugby that there are strange goings on behind the scenes where sports officials in Samoa are concerned. Here is a brief part of the saga where a sprinter good enough to trial for the USA Olympic team but who elected to elected to represent Samoa got treated when he did a Mahonri Schwalger. He called the officials to task and they demanded he apologise for questioning their honesty and integrity
-
This is worth a read ... world rugby clarifying their position on all Samoas claims
Latest News | World Rugby
The latest World Rugby news, including about the World Rankings, Tournaments, Player Welfare and the Laws of the Game
-
Thanks, good clear press relear from irb.
As I had thought.
'Bankruptcy' correctly reported by most with the single quotes.
Part of their funding withheld due to poor governance. In this case agree to funding head coach position as long as it follows an independent panel.
Not funded if panel ignored and job goes to man from the right church / family / etc etc
SRU made their choice.
-
“We are bankrupt,” he told the Samoa Observer in his office. “In other words we are insolvent. It means the Union cannot continue to pay off our debts with the banks. We also need money to pay the players so they can continue to play.” At the time, the admission took most people by surprise, especially coming from the Chairman who had up until that point repeatedly downplayed the Union’s financial woes. That aside, the timing could not have been better. You see the admission was made a day before a nationwide Radiothon organised by the Union, apparently to pay for the Manu Samoa players insurance and the salary of Head Coach, Fuimaono Titimaea Tafua. -
Who's got the worst union in World Rugby? Part 1 - Samoa
But to those with experience on the ground in Samoa, the story is one more of corruption and mismanagement
in ^ that article, is a link to this article; http://sobserver.ws/en/25_06_2017/local/21496/An-open-letter-to-the-Chairman-of-the-Samoa-Rugby-Union.htm<i>
Now this is an article about hopeless administration, lack of care of kids in your charge, and passing the buck. But my attention was caught by references to the state of the High Performance Unit. (a bricks and mortar IRB investment)
He was staying at the High Performance Unit so we were happy with that. However, that was short lived…we soon found out there was no hot water and no kitchen facilities and the basics like toilet paper was not provided and there were no toilet seats. Not all the boys stayed at HPU only the boys who had no family to stay with.The construction of the Samoa Rugby Union's (SRU) High Performance Facility is ... The IRB has contributed over GBP £1million to the project ....In February this year, the IRB’s head of Development and Performance, Mark Egan told local media, “For 2010, The IRB pours in £1.6million pounds (T$4.9 million) between all the grants. £200,000 for the development grant, the £400,000 for high performance operations grant that funds the academy and HP programmes; and for actual construction just over a £1million directly to the Samoan Rugby Union.” -
Sport: Samoa awarded seat on World Rugby Council
Samoa has been awarded a seat on the World Rugby Council after successfully meeting the criteria set by World Rugby.
Samoa finally get their shit in some order.
E.g. get a seat on the council now that their Financial reports meet World Rugby criteria.
-
-
@stargazer said in Samoa in the shit ... poached like a taupo trout (apparently):
@rapido Still mixing politics and rugby though. The Samoan PM will take that seat on the WR Council. It's great they're on the Council now, but they'll also need to keep their shit together in the future.
As long as they vote how we tell them too then it's all good.
Tonga and Fiji should be getting a vote as well.
-
From: https://www.rugbyworld.com/in-the-mag/pacific-islands-rugby-special-report-93780/2
Tonga:
Governance has long been an issue in the Pacific and the political involvement – the leaders of Fiji and Samoa also head the rugby unions for example – adds a layer of complexity other teams avoid.
Tonga coach and former Wallaby No 8 Toutai Kefu believes his union do not have the right people in power to take the game forward. “One of our biggest issues is governance. We just seem to be involving people who are incompetent. I’m not talking about everyone but there are people in positions of power who don’t have the experience to govern.
“Everything I do is about increasing our chances of winning, but I think one of their main agendas is to give local players an opportunity to play for ‘Ikale Tahi, which in turn allows them to get a visa to go overseas. I believe you have to earn the ‘Ikale Tahi jersey. I don’t want to waste it as a development vehicle.
“We’re faring okay on the field but off it we need people to secure home Tests and better games, an administration to secure other forms of funding other than World Rugby investment. We’re ending up with people who’ve got there through nepotism and corruption.”
Constant changes in the top positions mean it’s hard to make significant advancements, particularly when people want to make their mark. Tonga team manager Inoke Afeaki says: “Everyone wants to come and build a castle, but rather than build on what they’ve got, they knock it down and start again.”
Kefu and Afeaki would like World Rugby to be more stringent in how the Tonga Rugby Union appoint people to high-level positions, providing a detailed remit of what attributes someone needs to fulfil a role, but the governing body must tread a fine line. They can’t be too dictatorial as they want these unions to make strides themselves, to provide stability off the field and sustain progress.
Samoa:
Vincent Fepuleai, chief executive of the Samoa Rugby Union (SRU), knows it needs to be a two-way relationship. The SRU are working on changes to their constitution – a process all three unions are going through – which will see their board include more independent figures. The aim is to meet criteria set out by World Rugby, who want to bring the islands’ administration structures in line with other unions, making them more democratic and transparent.
Should the SRU’s changes be passed at the September AGM and World Rugby agree they have ticked the relevant boxes, they can then be proposed for a seat on the Council. At present, Fiji, Samoa and Tonga’s interests are represented by Oceania Rugby.
“I’d like to see us being able to voice our issues at Council meetings,” says Fepuleai. “We’re not sitting on our bums waiting for handouts, we’re working very hard to meet every obligation set for us. We want to work with World Rugby and make changes happen.”
Read more at https://www.rugbyworld.com/in-the-mag/pacific-islands-rugby-special-report-93780/2#8H4Q5Bgp4giyvFQK.99more at https://www.rugbyworld.com/in-the-mag/pacific-islands-rugby-special-report-93780/2#8H4Q5Bgp4giyvFQK.99
Some very candid comments by Kefu and Afeaki.
-
-
@nepia said in Samoa in the shit ... poached like a taupo trout (apparently):
@rapido Damn, that is really candid. Sheesh, imagine if Hansen started lobbing grenades at NZR in that manner.
How about this for candid .... It's from an article 3 months ago though, about late player payments. Judging by this I'd think Tonga are still a way off getting a seat at the board.
(I was doing a google search to see if Tonga have named their November squad yet).
Sport: Tonga players finally paid for June tests, CEO MIA
The Tonga rugby squad have finally been paid for their efforts in the June test window, after a number of players had hit out at the lack of support from the country's Rugby Union.
The Tonga rugby squad have finally been paid for their efforts in the June test window, after a number of players had hit out at the lack of support from the country's Rugby Union.
Bath flyer Cooper Vuna tweeted after the 'Ikale Tahi beat Fiji a week and a half ago that the players were still waiting for CEO Fe'ao Vunipola to pay the team and congratulate them on their achievements.
Injured Leicester Tigers fullback Telusa Veainu also commented that "Some things just don't change. Give the players what they deserve."
'Ikale Tahi coach Toutai Kefu said funding remained an ongoing problem for the Tonga Rugby Union, which is almost entirely reliant on World Rugby.
"Because of our incompetence in terms of our governance/administration we lack that power to pursue other forms of funding and even organisation of test matches during the November window and sponsorship and all that type of stuff so we're basically 99.9 percent funded by World Rugby," he acknowledged.
Toutai Kefu said the 'Ikale Tahi team manager, former test captain Inoke Afeaki, has assured him the players were finally paid last week.
"It's one of the things that creeps up every campaign. We always try and get the players paid in the first week of the tour and the last week of the tour.
"Now, because of for some reason or another, the government is responsible for those payments and they've always contributed to the player payments... it's either been held up or just a slow process, for one reason or another, but in the end it always seems to get paid."
Kefu said TRU Chief Executive Fe'ao Vunipola is a hard man to track down and the former test front rower has not visited the team or attended any of the 'Ikale Tahi's recent matches.
"I haven't spoken to him for over 18 months. He doesn't even come to any of the games, there's no well-wishes," he said.
"Even when we were in Tonga last year - apparently he was in Tonga but he didn't even come and see the team."
"He splits his time between UK and Tonga though I think he spends more time actually in the UK but we actually don't know when he actually is in Tonga," admitted the former Wallabies number eight.
"He turns up pretty much at his will. I don't know what he actually does because we've been running the 'Ikale Tahi parallel to the Union for the last two/three years, we've been trying to deal with governments and trying to deal with World Rugby on our own."
Toutai Kefu said a request for additional funding from World Rugby was approved in December, which allowed them to expand staff and player numbers for the June window and have a week-long camp in Auckland before tests against Georgia, Samoa and Fiji.
Tonga's victories over Manu Samoa and the Flying Fijians, which followed a one-point defeat the Lelos, helped them climb to 12th place in the latest World Rugby rankings.
Unlike Samoa for the last decade, Tonga are actually punching well above their weight at a playing level, and at a player development level are producing good home-grown and/or scholarship players.
Yet their union is disfunctional. Well gone to the coaches, players, and thank the genes of their ancestors for being able to rise above the administrative rabble (but probably only temporarily if not sorted).
Defiant athlete refuses to apologise
