Lions v Crusaders - Super Rugby Final
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@Bones said in Lions v Crusaders - Super Rugby Final:
I really don't know how dumb you'd have to be in today's rugby to not have the slightest inkling when chasing a kick that the opposition may, just maybe, go in the air. Yeah shit I bet Smith was surprised, probably never seen a player do that before huh!
@Crucial, a player doing karate kicks in the middle of the field isn't doing anything wrong until he hits another player that's run into him. But once he does, probably not a wise thing to be doing eh? So why not use his brains and anticipate what is going on...
I think you are deliberately missing the point.
Currently if there is a high ball and you are positioned (or getting into position) to catch, and there is a chaser, you are actually obliged to put yourself into potential danger by jumping or anticipate the other player jumping and get out of the way.
IMO that is plain dumb. Why does the player that takes a risk by going to the air have the rights?Yes, in this occasion everyone knows that dumb ruling applies and he should have jumped himself or got out of the way. I'm not disputing that. I'm simply saying that I find this situation unfair on the player playing the game by the law 'on his feet'.
Is everyone on the ground near where a ball is coming down expected to move away because a chaser may take a flying leap at them? That's what is currently expected and I find that weird as there is no danger at all until that player leaps.
Edit: just to be clear. If the guy on the ground is nowhere near where the ball is coming down he has no rights and shouldn't provide an obstacle for those able to claim he catch.
The timing can be very fine.
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Haven't watched it, won't watch it, but congratulations to Scott Robertson and the whole crusader organisation. It's a remarkable season to play in the NZ conference, only lose once, and then travel to South Africa and win the final. Hell of a year
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@mariner4life said in Lions v Crusaders - Super Rugby Final:
Haven't watched it, won't watch it, but congratulations to Scott Robertson and the whole crusader organisation. It's a remarkable season to play in the NZ conference, only lose once, and then travel to South Africa and win the final. Hell of a year
That's the thing right? They have broken the travel to SA and win a final hoodoo
And at Altitude! Fuck that.
That was just damn tough.
Crotty was outstanding but my hero of the match was Whitelock. Did a McCaw in terms of match durability.
That last 20 mins must have been in a dark dark place. Read too I imagine
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A big part of rugby is about anticipating what the opposition will do, both in attack and defence, and often you mistime or misread what will happen and you suffer the consequences. Often no malice or intent, but your inability to anticipate the situation leaves you in the hands of the officials.
There is a lot of clarification required around dangerous play though, we have seen some really harsh penalties and cards this season for plays that are part of the competition, while some cards have been clear and obvious, and some have been let go.
IMO if Kainos forearm in the Lions test was in super rugby it would have been red and copped him a ban, but the bed had been made the week before with SOB.
I have also always been of the opinion that we need to find a better way to deal with 'accidental' red card offenses, but this opens up another can of worms.
I wonder if there has been more cards at super rugby and international than previously?
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Solid!
Crusaders learned from the Canes' experience. Slowed things down at nearly every opportunity and needed to. They were looking pretty weary at the end of it.
Thought most of our AB "stars" really stood up in that game - Crotty, Read and Whitelock in particular. Goodhue looked fairly close to flawless as well. Todd and Drummond very good. Most of the others made at least one dumb or careless error that could have been crucial - especially if the Lions had stayed at 15 men.
However, SANZAR had tilted the playing field pretty heavily in the Lions favour, so a bit of adversity to tip some advantage back to us was very welcome.
And on that note - Fuck you SANZAR. You had better have a competent panel designing a fair, reduced competition or I may well not bother watching in future. That so-called "competition" was a fucking farce. I reckon it ended up being as tough as the earthquake season for the Crusaders, so a mighty effort to get the job done.
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I'd like to give a heap of credit to the Lions. They were slandered by the NZ media and fanbase because they didn't have to play NZ sides and haven't had to travel in the playoffs, as if they were no-hopers. What they showed against the Canes and in the second half this morning suggests they are legitimately one of the best sides in the comp and would've won their fair share of games against NZ sides had the draw asked them to.
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@Wurzel Yes. It is not their fault that SANZAR served up this shambles of a competition.
I find it hard to rank the Lions because they haven't really been fairly tested over the season. Not surprising that they've finished both games over the top of the Canes and Crusaders - not just due to the altitude, but because they've also had a far less grueling season. Lots of easy games where they'll have had plenty of opportunity to rest their players (including the international window).
All that said, they are clearly one of the best teams in the competition - as they showed last year when they were in the SA conference that played the harder schedule.
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to answer my own question, I found stats on cards (this just said sinbin, didnt clarify red/yellow) given for 2015/2016/2017 Super seasons (accoridng to Sanzarrugby.com)
Reds were top this year with 13, and the year total was 143
Reds were top in 2015 with 10, and the annual total was 94
Chiefs were top in 2014 with 13, annual total was 91According to another rugbystatbunker.com, in the same period, for Reds cards we had:
13 in 2017
6 in 2016
10 in 2015 -
Awesome result. Great for the Crusaders to add another title to their impressive title. Especially travelling to SA to do it.
Don't know how the Lions managed to get scrums reset whenever they collapsed it but the Crusaders got pinged at the slightest hint of doing something wrong. Ref was pretty good overall though. Had no choice on the red card. I agree the red card situation needs to be reviewed but this one wasn't marginal in any way. He wasn't even contesting and Havili landed on his head/neck.
I would like them to introduce an orange card where the player takes no further part but after 15-20min he can be replaced. Reds should be for eye gouging, kicking, kneeing, biting, punching, deliberate foul play etc. Not for tackles that have gone wrong. However that is a seperate discussion because this game thread shouldn't turn into a debate about cards.
Ps. Lots of people talking sbout this format being finished. As far as i know the "new" format still involves conferences, guarenteed home finals but with over half of the teams making the finals. I guess it eliminates the situation where a SA team goes all year not playing NZ or OZ teams which is a step in the right direction but still not ideal.
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So fucking good, rivals 1998 for my favourite season ever. I think there's been 5 or 6 games this season I've rated amongst the best ever wins.
Perfect gameplan.... rolling maul defence was outstanding (apparently we haven't conceded a maul try all year). the defense in general shows the biggest difference from last year, we actually care and play with passion.
So bloody happy... will be at the airport to welcome the lads and the trophy home
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Just watched it now.
Respect to the Crusaders and their rookie coach who I thought was a strange selection at the time. They've been awesome this season and clearly the best team in the comp.
I'm really in awe of what the Crusaders have achieved in Super rugby and I say that as a rusted on fan boy. The respite provided during the Blackadder era appears to be over.
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Personally I really missed the endless side to side but never forward back play of the Blackadder era. It freed me of my addiction to sleeping tablets. Also I thought Fonatia was a big absence this season, Goodhue and Crotty just papered over the gaping wound that was the loss of Kieron's guile and especially speed.
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@Billy-Tell haven't we got Aaron Mauger to thank for pioneering the sideways shit? I guess you can always watch the Highlanders next year...
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@Crazy-Horse said in Lions v Crusaders - Super Rugby Final:
@Billy-Tell haven't we got Aaron Mauger to thank for pioneering the sideways shit? I guess you can always watch the Highlanders next year...
Mauger ran sideways himself, he didn't pass it sideways.
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Ive just seen the game
Somethings got to be done about poor reffing. Poor decisions are destroying rugby. And as a big rugby fan its putting me off the game. The yellow last week was ridiculous. But a mistake with yellow is only for 10 minutes. A mistake with a red can be for a lot longer
In my view if anyone should have got the red card it was Havili. His jump was reckless. He basically jumped into the head of the Lions player. He had nil chance of taking the ball without connecting with the upper body of the player he jumped into = reckless play. But the same clown who gave a yellow last week gave the red this week. Likely because he knew he made a mistake last week and didn't want to be accused of SA bias this week (the reason why neutral refs shoudl always be appointed)
But this has now become fairly consistent. Refs giving debatable decisions. We just need to accept this and reduce the impact of these debatable decisions. My view is now to scrub yellow card and replace penalties with a 4 pointer (yellow card type offense where it will be in the center of the field). The rest will be only 2 points. And keep red card but make it the player leaves the field and doesn't return but he can be replaced after 10 minutes. And the team is penalized 4 points without the kick. Or something like this. Poor or inconsistent reffing is ruining games. Just accept this will continue to happen (refs are human) and try to lessen the impact
