All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2
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@mooshld said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
To be fair side entry has been very poorly reffed for most of this year.
But sir which gate....
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@Catogrande said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
Well, I've taken the time to cool of a little and to reconsider my level of foreboding, forcing myself not to comment on the Lions selection until I'd given it some cold hard thought. Sadly my levels of foreboding have only receded a little, but at least I won't be in full rant mode when discussing the squad.
First off the selection looks like it is a knee-jerk reaction to Plan A not working. Knee-jerk reactions are seldom very good ones and especially so if you really do not have a Plan B to back up with and certainly haven't given any thought to implementation of one all tour. (Some would say the whole coaching career).
The biggest sea-change is the two playmaker idea. In itself not a bad idea but the devil is in the detail. Firstly none of the 10s on tour have played particularly well and you can't say that any are on any real form. Secondly all the tour starting teams have gone down the 10 playmaker with a big lump outside - anytime this has not been the case has been because an injury has forced this on the coaches. Additionally Teo defended well in his channel and broke the line as much as anyone. It just smacks of desperate measures and this worries me against a team as good as NZ.
From 13 outwards all is as good as it could be given injuries and form. The backs on the bench are 2/3rds correct but the inclusion of Nowell is an odd one and I think with North injured, that this time I would have gone with Halfpenny instead of Nowell.
The forwards, the forwards. Where it all starts and ends. Front row, starting and bench is fine by me, but both second row and back row again show heaps of confused thinking. Kruis goes from the one nailed on second row to out of the squad altogether on the back of one so-so performance. O'Mahoney goes from test captain to the invisible man on the back of a pretty good performance. AWJ keeps his staring place after a(nother) poor showing and Warburton seemingly has to be fitted in. Don't get me worng Warburton played well when he came on and he does offer something different to O'Mahoney, but where is the balance?
What really shits me is that I have to get up early on Saturday to watch all this unfold. Is 8.30am too early for a beer? Not usually when rugby is on the menu but this time I think I will be hosing it down to numb the pain.
I've also taken time to mull ths selection over.
There's a reason why the USA Basketball team does so well in international competition. They're the best practioners combined, playing against mostly inferior opposition.
The Lions v NZ is the polar opposite of that.
The Lions is great for the Home Nations because world class players in shit teams get a chance to play with world class players against world class players.
And every decade or so individuals and the team flourish, win a series, and become immortalised.
England could well have beaten NZ last week. And on current form over a three match series, you'd expect them to win at least one match.
The same can't be said of the Lions.
I have a real sense that not even the best 23 players in the touring squad, let alone the Home Nations have been selected for the 2nd Test. And even if a player is the best in his position, his form is well below his capability.
As Wales found out last Summer, brutally in the 2nd and 3rd Tests, you can't hope to beat NZ anywhere in the world unless you have your best 23 players at your disposal, and all 23 players give their individual and collective best.
I can see this series going the way of 2005, with Barrett emphatically inheriting Carter's crown.
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@jegga said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
Not good news .
Shame
That's a cracking shot for any era, but especially the film days of the 70s
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@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
could well be wrong , but im guessing gats may have waited to see the ab team before confirming his starting side ,
once he saw the relatively inexperienced (combination wise )back 3 named , he leaned towards this 10 12 combo to pepper them with kicks.
if they started with bb and dagg in the back 3 he may have started teo .......just a hunch
If we do that we're
Why the fuck would I want a caravan that's got no fockin wheels
You like dägs?
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@MiketheSnow You're not hungover on gin are you mate? You sound very depressed (and depressing).
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@Catogrande said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@MiketheSnow You're not hungover on gin are you mate? You sound very depressed (and depressing).
Ha ha, that's why I drink it - no hangover.
No, realism has set in.
Gatland making the same mistakes he's made for Wales.
Primarily the non-selection of players who offer something different from the norm.
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@MiketheSnow I think that is a massive strength with these AB coaches, J Savea & Fekitoa gone. Jordie and Laumape given a chance. I wrote before the team was selected that I was worried they'd just pick the tried and true which I thought was a bit too boring. I mean who in their right mind would drop a player with the strike rate of Savea? Proved me wrong and I'm picking Naholo and Laumape to be inspired picks tomorrow.
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@Rembrandt said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@MiketheSnow I think that is a massive strength with these AB coaches, J Savea & Fekitoa gone. Jordie and Laumape given a chance. I wrote before the team was selected that I was worried they'd just pick the tried and true which I thought was a bit too boring. I mean who in their right mind would drop a player with the strike rate of Savea? Proved me wrong and I'm picking Naholo and Laumape to be inspired picks tomorrow.
Absolutely. Constantly evolving versus consolidating.
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@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Rembrandt said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@MiketheSnow I think that is a massive strength with these AB coaches, J Savea & Fekitoa gone. Jordie and Laumape given a chance. I wrote before the team was selected that I was worried they'd just pick the tried and true which I thought was a bit too boring. I mean who in their right mind would drop a player with the strike rate of Savea? Proved me wrong and I'm picking Naholo and Laumape to be inspired picks tomorrow.
Absolutely. Constantly evolving versus consolidating.
Agreed this is what you see with all the very good teams. no standing still. Often you see new blokes come in more because of a lack of form with the incumbent rather than making a case themselves or even more often sticking with the tried and tested even when they're off form or past it. Consolidation is I think a generous term.
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@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
could well be wrong , but im guessing gats may have waited to see the ab team before confirming his starting side ,
once he saw the relatively inexperienced (combination wise )back 3 named , he leaned towards this 10 12 combo to pepper them with kicks.
if they started with bb and dagg in the back 3 he may have started teo .......just a hunch
That's pretty much what I thought, as well.
Weather forecast says, cold, wet and Wellington - kick it high and hard and see what happens. To be honest, that's what I'd do, if I were the Lions coach.
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@Chris-B. said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
could well be wrong , but im guessing gats may have waited to see the ab team before confirming his starting side ,
once he saw the relatively inexperienced (combination wise )back 3 named , he leaned towards this 10 12 combo to pepper them with kicks.
if they started with bb and dagg in the back 3 he may have started teo .......just a hunch
That's pretty much what I thought, as well.
Weather forecast says, cold, wet and Wellington - kick it high and hard and see what happens. To be honest, that's what I'd do, if I were the Lions coach.
I was surprised with the forecast that Hanson went with two wings not known for their kicking game when he usually prefers an 11 and a 15 a and 15b . I agree if Gatland is going to keep the series alive this is his best option for doing that.
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At least BB has experience kicking in the Caketin.
Always seems to be that you ignore the wind as it swirls like a bitch and will usually move the ball one way and then the other on the way to the posts.
Need to be conservative when kicking for touch too. It isn't unknown for a good kick to be blown back in by a random gust.
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Former Wales captain and BBC Pundit Gwyn Jones
Gwyn Jones: A Lions loss would end Gatland's spell at world rugby's summit
The former Wales captain and top TV pundit argues Gatland would be left 'treading water in Wales' unless the Lions beat New Zealand
One of the comments from a reader
WelshOzi
"Great article from Gwyn Jones. Gatland's woeful, disgraceful record against the southern hemisphere countries, 33 losses out of 36 proves that crash, bang, wallop, kick aka Warrenball does not work at the top level. It worked against lesser opposition in the 6 nations for a while but a large part of this is that England have been below par until Eddy Jones took over and Wales relied on a dominant scrum to get penalties for Halfpenny to kick - once the scrum laws changed in 2013 and Adam Jones's influence declined Gatland and Wales have been on a slippery slope. The guy has zero innovation and is as detrimentaly stubborn as a mule and is backed up by an atrocious attack coach and adiabolical forwards coach. Mass clearout is the only way forward" -
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
Former Wales captain and BBC Pundit Gwyn Jones
The former Wales captain and top TV pundit argues Gatland would be left 'treading water in Wales' unless the Lions beat New Zealand
One of the comments from a reader
WelshOzi
"Great article from Gwyn Jones. Gatland's woeful, disgraceful record against the southern hemisphere countries, 33 losses out of 36 proves that crash, bang, wallop, kick aka Warrenball does not work at the top level. It worked against lesser opposition in the 6 nations for a while but a large part of this is that England have been below par until Eddy Jones took over and Wales relied on a dominant scrum to get penalties for Halfpenny to kick - once the scrum laws changed in 2013 and Adam Jones's influence declined Gatland and Wales have been on a slippery slope. The guy has zero innovation and is as detrimentaly stubborn as a mule and is backed up by an atrocious attack coach and adiabolical forwards coach. Mass clearout is the only way forward"Ouch!
No worries about the NZ press getting stuck in when you have your home press referring to you as the Teresa May of coaching
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Murray Kinsella's pre-game analysis (even if he did get it all wrong last week)
Click the link if you want to see all the gifs and diagrams
Analysis: The key areas for the Lions if they are to win in Wellington
We’ve looked at the areas where Warren Gatland’s side need to be better against the All Blacks.
Text only here:
Analysis: The key areas for the Lions if they are to win in Wellington
We’ve looked at the areas where Warren Gatland’s side need to be better against the All Blacks.
Murray Kinsella reports from Wellington
THE BUILD-UP has been dominated by more bitching, controversy and clowning around but we are finally on the eve of the Lions’ second Test and what promises to be one of the great rugby games [KO 8.35am Irish time tomorrow, Sky Sports].
We’ve taken a look at some of the key areas for the Lions if they are to pull off a shock and level the series heading into the final Test in Auckland.
Get a breakdown grip
One of the absolute priorities for the Lions is slowing down the pace of the All Blacks’ attack and that will come through targeting the breakdown.
In the first Test, the All Blacks were consistently able to get what they term ‘lighting-quick ball,’ which refers to rucks lasting less than three seconds.
We’ve analysed how the speed of that ball meant the Lions’ defence struggled to get set in good positions to make dominant tackles, and therefore saw them give up more and more gainline as the phases ticked by.
Sam Warburton has been picked by Gatland to lead the breakdown battle and it is certainly an area in which he excels.We get an example in the second half of the first Test above, with Warburton clamping over the ball and greatly slowing down the All Blacks’ ruck, giving his team-mates valuable time to get set in defence.
Even when Warburton isn’t the man directly over the ball looking for the turnover himself, he is highly influential around the breakdown.
Below, we see an example in the game against the Provincial Barbarians as Rory Best wins a clean turnover.While it’s Best who steals the ball, note Warburton’s actions.
He clamps himself around the Ireland hooker, anchoring Best as he fishes for the ball.Best’s right knee actually goes to ground here and it should really be a penalty the other way for that reason, but Warburton’s aid helps the Ulsterman to get back to his feet instantly and he finishes the job.
Warburton regularly produces these kind of breakdown assists and he is a real pest around the tackle, as we see below.Again, it’s Best who wins the turnover but note the actions of Warburton.
The tackle is made on his inside and as he is retreating, he runs across the tackle and gets a subtle block in on one of the arriving Barbarians players, just closing off his access to the breakdown for long enough to give Best a shot.It’s clever stuff from Warburton and we can see that Johnny Sexton does the same thing over on the other side of the tackle, meaning Best has time to get back to his feet and pilfer the ball.
With the Lions zoning in on the breakdown tomorrow, Warburton will be a key figure but it might be that his subtle work allows others, like Sean O’Brien, to make the glory steals.
Find the grass
One thing the Lions struggled for in the first Test was good field position. That was partly due to their handling errors when they got into the All Blacks’ half, but it was also a reflection of their kicking game.
Conor Murray launched the kind of contestable box kicks we had anticipated and the Lions had real success over Ben Smith in the first half, so we can certainly expect to see them test fullback Israel Dagg and wings Rieko Ioane and Waisake Naholo in that manner.
However, they are also likely to look for grass with their kicking game, sending the ball deeper into All Blacks’ backfield.Owen Farrell does as much in the instance above, early in the first Test. While the All Blacks are able to get back and Israel Dagg then produces a big touchfinder, the Lions get the ball again with a lineout near the halfway line.
It’s an economical way of gaining territory, but the Lions didn’t pursue these tactics much again in that first Test.
With Johnny Sexton at out-half and Owen Farrell shifting to inside centre, we can expect more of this type of kicking from the Lions.Sexton is a particularly good tactical kicker, as we see in the example above against the Maori All Blacks, so he is sure to be a vital figure.
While Naholo and Ioane are both devastating attacking players, they are not as comfortable when the ball is kicked in behind them. The Lions will have to be as wary of loose kicking against the Kiwis’ counter-attacking quality as ever, but they are likely to test Naholo and Ioane by turning them.
With the weather set to be wet and windy tomorrow, expect lots of kicking. The Lions ended up kicking only 19 times in the first Test, down on their tour average of 25, but that figure should rise in Wellington.
Make some hits
For Andy Farrell’s defence, this is about as basic as it gets. They will need to bring fierce aggression into the tackle and regularly produce the kind of hits that were lacking in the first Test.
As we discussed earlier in the week, there was far too much passive tackling from the Lions around the fringes of the rucks, where the All Blacks got major gains.
Shoring up that area of their defence has been the key focus for Farrell this week, so expect to see players working incredibly hard to fill those tight spaces early, communicate and come forward aggressively.
Itoje
Maro Itoje’s presence in the starting XV will be a boost defensively, with the England lock being an excellent tackler.
Even thought he came off the bench last week, he was one of the few players to make dominant tackles – as we see above.
Expect to see the Saracens man leading the way as the Lions look for these momentum-swinging moments of contact.
Barrett’s influence
While the first Test head injury for Ben Smith was obviously damaging and concerning, and means his series is over, the All Blacks had a pretty decent replacement fullback in Beauden Barrett.
That said, it did deprive them of the best out-half in the world for a large part of the game and that has to be viewed as a let-off for the Lions – even if Aaron Cruden is all class.
Back at out-half for the second Test, we can expect to see more of Barrett’s attacking arsenal, particularly with the Lions likely to be narrower in defence as they seek to address their issues around the fringes.
BB
The Lions had expected more attacking kicks like the one above from Barrett in the first Test, but it wasn’t a tactic the All Blacks pursued greatly.
Anthony Watson superbly diffuses the danger in the instance above, calling the mark after an excellent leap and catch, and the Lions’ back three will be anticipating a lot more kicks of this kind from Barrett in the second Test.
Naholo is particularly excellent at timing his runs onto cross-field kick passes, grubbers and chips and he will be looking to get on the end of Barrett’s creative skills.
Brace the maul
The Lions have major pride to restore at scrum time after being shunted backwards by the All Blacks in the build-up to Ioane’s first try last weekend, but as important is getting their maul firing.
As we discussed previously, there was a costly five-metre maul failing for Gatland’s men early in the second half when they had the All Blacks under pressure, and it was generally an area of disappointment for the tourists.
Sack
The All Blacks had success with their sacking of the Lions at lineout time, as we see in the example above, with Kieran Read and Sam Whitelock tackling Alun Wyn Jones to the ground as he lands from his jump.
The Lions did have issues with the refereeing of this area, arguing that the maul had already been formed in several instances. With Jerome Garces taking over from Jaco Peyper as referee for the second Test, they will be hoping for a more favourable interpretation.
But the Lions absolutely must get their maul motoring at Westpac Stadium, where it could be a major weapon against the Kiwis.
Keep countering
Gatland’s side produced one of the all-time great Lions tries in the first Test and it was indicative of the success they had on counter attack.
With Liam Williams, Elliot Daly and Watson in the back three again, we should expect the Lions to pursue this ambitious mindset in the second Test.
LW
Williams makes a good decision to counter here, clocking that a possible kick would be in danger of a blockdown and also acknowledging that the fast-advancing Read is isolated.
Read
The footwork is outstanding and suddenly Williams understands his opportunity as he backs himself to get outside Cruden.
The Lions fullback intelligently transfers the ball over to his left hand so he can fend Cruden.
Fend
Williams also benefits from the clever work of Ben Te’o ahead of him, with the inside centre retreating and getting in a block on Sonny Bill Williams as the All Blacks midfielder attempts to turn in and tackle.
Te'o
Once in behind, the Lions are ruthless in a way that has eluded them too often on this tour.
SOB
The support play and work-rate from Jonathan Davies, Daly and O’Brien is sensational here and this is the templated for the Lions coming into the second Test.
If they are to pull this second Test victory off, they simply must take every chance they create.
Verdict
With the All Blacks set to be a more cohesive unit in their third Test of the year, this task simply looks too great for the Lions.
While they should be notably more aggressive in contact and will hope to have greater set-piece success, the All Blacks are capable of making decisions and executing on them accurately at a far greater speed than the Lions have shown they can react.
Even with the weather set to be poor, Steve Hansen’s side are sure to score tries and for that reason we’re suggesting a New Zealand win on a scoreline of 28-15. -
@Crucial said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
Murray Kinsella's pre-game analysis
Analysis: The key area
sfor the Lions if they are to win in WellingtonWe’ve looked at the area
swhere Warren Gatland’s side need to be better against the All Blacks.Scoreboard.
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@ACT-Crusader not sure I've seen enough of Tipuric to say whether he's got more breakdown mongrel than Warburton.
Itoje on the other hand is going to be a right menace in 4 years time when he gets his man strength.
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