Crusaders vs B&I Lions
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@Bovidae said in Crusaders vs B&I Lions:
@Nepia Are you wanting Barnes?
No one would complain if Owens was involved but when you exclude refs from the 4 Lions' countries and NZ you are left with France, SA and Aust. The refs chosen were entirely predictable - refer to who officiated in the playoffs at the 2015 RWC.
I would have liked Gardner in one of the tests but that wasn't to be.
In 2005 NZ refs (Walsh, Honiss, Deaker) were used in the non-test games and there was criticism of them from the Lions.
I actually think Barnes would be an improvement over the Frenchies, I don't know if it is the language issue but I find a certain randomness to the way the French referees ref matches. Gardner and Peyper having a test each would be preferable to me, but alas that's not the way they decided to go.
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@Donsteppa said in Crusaders vs B&I Lions:
Still feeling flat about that game. Pre tour I figured that was the best chance of a win outside of the AB's/NZM. After the Blues game I was looking forward to seeing a Super Rugby side cut loose.
At the risk of being a 'hater crawling out of the woodwork', that still feels bloody disappointing from the Crusaders... and it looked like Sam Whitelock felt similarly in his post match interview.
**If there's any plus side, several All Blacks have had any possible slight hint of complacency for the Test series beaten out of them...
This a thousand times.
FWIW I don't think BIL give a flying rats whether they score tries or not - Warburton clearly on record saying he doesn't care if they win tests by a single penalty 3-0. It is plain the Lions are here to win and win only.
Hansen and co better have a decent plan A, B, C,, D & E as I after that dire Crusaders performance I don't want any underdone/injured players taking the field. -
Ha - yeah - bloody ref. And what about that dirty Irish halfback taking out that Scotsman. ANY other game this year and that's an instant red card.
In the words of Fergie McCormick (from last night's grandstand), "Fuck, that's at least as bad as what I did to Sid Nomis! And that carried on for months...."
On another point - that dive through the ruck by Codie Taylor to "score" was a terrible option. If a try is scored in the ruck but no-one sees it scored... I could see the base of both posts crying out at Bryn Hall to have a quick dart and score against them!
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@Chris-B. said in Crusaders vs B&I Lions:
On another point - that dive through the ruck by Codie Taylor to "score" was a terrible option. If a try is scored in the ruck but no-one sees it scored... I could see the base of both posts crying out at Bryn Hall to have a quick dart and score against them!
Half of the people at the ground were screaming the exact same thing Chris, the bloody post was right there.
I've been disappointed with Taylor this year. He's been around for a few years now and pre season I expected him to be a dominant player. He's had the odd good game but is far too inconsistent.
I actually rate funnel ahead of him based on this years form. Was speaking to a mate of bens a couple of weeks ago, apparently he's loving the Robertson fitness regime. Much more running focussed, whereas Blackadder etc were obsessed with bulking him up. He definitely looks fitter than previous years.
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All in All , this game was good for Lions as well as the ABs brains trust I feel,
They get some confidence ,
And We have seen their blueprint , it wont vary too much from that , its what they do best
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@Tregaskis said in Crusaders vs B&I Lions:
@Tim Yes, it's true. It was a dominant defensive display.
Must be. Farrell has worked with England and Ireland. Only welsh players were mentioned as not being familiar with his defensive systems.
Systems? Plural? When did everyone rush forward become a system?
@kiwiinmelb said in Crusaders vs B&I Lions:
All in All , this game was good for Lions as well as the ABs brains trust I feel,
They get some confidence ,
And We have seen their blueprint , it wont vary too much from that , its what they do best
And a number of All Blacks now have a decent understanding of what's required to beat them. And the coaches will have cemented in their mind that at Test level you require wingers who can catch and five-eighths with variable kicking games.
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@antipodean said in Crusaders vs B&I Lions:
And the coaches will have cemented in their mind that at Test level you require wingers who can catch and five-eighths with variable kicking games.
And you need players throughout the team who can make a whole in the middle of an effective tackle line. The Crusaders found that they couldn't take enough people into the rucks to create space out wide. When the Lions have been opened up it has been down the middle of the park, not out wide.
That's why Ardie Savea and Cane are more suited to what we need than Todd, who can't take the ball up in traffic half as effectively as them. We don't need a fetcher, as there will be precious little ball on the ground for him to attack.
And why SBW is a key player.
I don't think Julian Savea will enjoy the Lions, unless they are stupid and mark him with a little player -- he'll get turned by the kicks and will be unable to steamroll his way out of trouble. I'd favour Naholo.
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@Chester-Draws said in Crusaders vs B&I Lions:
I'd favour Naholo.
If there is an award for 'most likely to jump into contact, and look blankly at the ref while being carded', then Naholo's your man. Beating the Lions in the Tests will need high intensity, largely error free football. I prefer even Fat Jules in that situation
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I find the bemusement at the scrum officiating understandable, but I find the bemusement at the reffing of the offside line bemusing.
I took a few years off watching rugby totally in 2013, 14. I started watching again early 2015 to get up to speed fro the RWC. While I had been away the offside line had crept forward 1 to 1 1/2 metres.
Because what happens now is teams are about a metre offside, the ref warns one of them to get back so they move back half a metre. But they're actually still half a metre offside, but it gets let go.
The offside line is pushed especially outrageously in the early minutes of the game as the players work out the marker.
Last night; French ref without warning or any communication would penalise Crusaders when they were a metre offside. Then again when they repeated. The result was the Crusaders then spent the rest of the match very safely onside by about a foot behind the last foot.
It was beautiful. Brilliantly effective and how the game should be reffed.
The Lions never outrageously tested the offside line early like the saders, never got spooked and tangled in their own mess like the saders did, and spent the match roughly level with the back foot.
No complaints from me, but I'm not a fan. I guess I should add the modern offside line to the grind my gears thread.
But as an nz fan, who watches mostly 90% nz rugby, I recognise by god we usually 'game' the
modem communicating ref's offside line to perfection. -
@Chester-Draws said in Crusaders vs B&I Lions:
@antipodean said in Crusaders vs B&I Lions:
I don't think Julian Savea will enjoy the Lions, unless they are stupid and mark him with a little player -- he'll get turned by the kicks and will be unable to steamroll his way out of trouble. I'd favour Naholo.
I'd probably favor Ioane and Dagg right now, but Ioane and Naholo would be OK as long as they assemble the bomb squad at training all week. Naholo and Dagg with Ioane off the bench also works, and Ioane could be lethal fresh at the 60 minute mark. My guess is that right now, he has the 23 jersey - especially with Crotty injured.
If they play Savea, which I expect them too, his role has to be to get involved off Barrett's shoulder, and create some doubt in the defense.If he can work hard coming off his wing (same for Naholo btw) by applying pressure in midfield, then the opportunities to stretch them might happen. The Saders just never really broke them down going forward around the ruck (Mo'unga, Havili) and when they did break them down didn't have the pace to make them pay (really Mo'unga, can't outrun a 6??).
As you correctly put it, the way is through them - but also over them, either with long skip passes (i.e., Blues) or chip kicks/kick passes (come on Barrett). They defended the kick pass well though, so - I an't believe I'm saying this - I think a significant effort on short chip kicks, and looking for inside passes (also) is required. Contestable kicks are crucial, and right now they might have the best exponent of that with Murray.
My feeling is that our packs will cancel each other out, enough at least for the ABs to have opportunities. Goal kicking concerns me, because I feel like the Lions will score about 15 - 20 points off penalties and will get at least one maul try or similar. We usually have poor discipline at the start of the year, so I'm sure they'll get enough chances for that many points - and more, of course if they can break us down. Usually anything less than 20 points is not enough to beat the ABs - but three missed kicks can turn 21 points into 15. In which case, well, I hope someone is kicking well, because I don't see how to put Jordie on the bench - he doesn't command either a starting or 23 spot yet to me.
It's pretty clear that the Lions have a strong defense, but if the ABs can break them down and get to 25 -30 points, I'm confident that we'll win 95% of the time.
I'm interested in how we best do that. . If they kick away possession poorly (i.e., Blues) rather than well (i.e., Crusaders) then our back three will have opportunities, but if not - we'll need SBW to play a similar game as he put in for the Blues - work hard and straighten the attack, be the bail out option, and take the one or two opportunities that present themselves. Much will depend on whether Barrett runs or has enough ball runners in the midfield. Watching that game last night, I though it looked like a perfect opportunity for a Cruden/SBW show - so I hope he is ready to come off the bench and vary things up late in the match.
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