Rugby rules (or lack there of) that grind your gears?
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@Damo said in Rugby rules (or lack there of) that grind your gears?:
Another one, now that I think of it:
The law for when a lineout is deemed formed (and hence a QT is no longer available). Currently the law is that once there is 2 players from each team on the line of touch then the lineout is formed. This is silly because it means that the team with the throw can delay putting players into the lineout indefinitely and thus preserve the right to take a quick throw for a long time; often longer than I think the lawmakers would have intended. Technically there is a Free Kick offence for delaying to form a lineout but I've never seen it used in 20 years of watching rugby.
A simple fix would be to say that the lineout is formed once 2 players from the non-throwing team are in position. Maybe make it 3 players just to keep the quick throws coming.
In practice though the ref will call lineout as formed if one team is waiting and formed.
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@Crucial said in Rugby rules (or lack there of) that grind your gears?:
@Damo said in Rugby rules (or lack there of) that grind your gears?:
Another one, now that I think of it:
The law for when a lineout is deemed formed (and hence a QT is no longer available). Currently the law is that once there is 2 players from each team on the line of touch then the lineout is formed. This is silly because it means that the team with the throw can delay putting players into the lineout indefinitely and thus preserve the right to take a quick throw for a long time; often longer than I think the lawmakers would have intended. Technically there is a Free Kick offence for delaying to form a lineout but I've never seen it used in 20 years of watching rugby.
A simple fix would be to say that the lineout is formed once 2 players from the non-throwing team are in position. Maybe make it 3 players just to keep the quick throws coming.
In practice though the ref will call lineout as formed if one team is waiting and formed.
Sometimes, but not always.
In any case the ref that does this is acting outside of law. If that is the practice then they should codify it. Otherwise we are just relying on ref's good judgement to ignore the laws when they deem it appropriate
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@Damo said in Rugby rules (or lack there of) that grind your gears?:
@Crucial said in Rugby rules (or lack there of) that grind your gears?:
@Damo said in Rugby rules (or lack there of) that grind your gears?:
Another one, now that I think of it:
The law for when a lineout is deemed formed (and hence a QT is no longer available). Currently the law is that once there is 2 players from each team on the line of touch then the lineout is formed. This is silly because it means that the team with the throw can delay putting players into the lineout indefinitely and thus preserve the right to take a quick throw for a long time; often longer than I think the lawmakers would have intended. Technically there is a Free Kick offence for delaying to form a lineout but I've never seen it used in 20 years of watching rugby.
A simple fix would be to say that the lineout is formed once 2 players from the non-throwing team are in position. Maybe make it 3 players just to keep the quick throws coming.
In practice though the ref will call lineout as formed if one team is waiting and formed.
Sometimes, but not always.
In any case the ref that does this is acting outside of law. If that is the practice then they should codify it. Otherwise we are just relying on ref's good judgement to ignore the laws when they deem it appropriate
I agree. I was talking about the instance mentioned where one team is deliberately standing off and it is obvious. Pretty rare to see a ref let them still take a QTI in that situation.
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England v Wales U20s last night. 7 Welsh subs run on to the field in the 48th minute to help celebrate a push over try.
With one of these subs also getting involved in a push and shove with an England prop.
Pathetic.
No sanction for this sort of unsporting behaviour. Yet if you get pinned (often deliberately ) and don't roll away quick enough you will be penalised and risk 3 points or a kick to a line out and resulting undefendable driving maul.
Although credit where it is due. After humiliating the English pack at least there wasn't any head patting. Just screaming in his face and pushing him in the chest. I like the classy, sporting way the game is heading.
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For me scrums should be an attempt to win the ball. I cannot stand it when teams have successfully healed the ball then sit on it waiting for a collapse and they win a penalty.
It rewards the most negative play. Boring to watch for most people, especially if they try if three or four times.
I don't mind pushing the other side back, so pushover tries are OK, just when it sits stationary just milking the penalty. They should be told to use it.
Also, if a lineout is taken down and the defenders drive the lineout back, then the attackers should have used their first "stationary" if they want to drive it. How does it go from one direction to the other without being stationary in between?
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@Chester-Draws said in Rugby rules (or lack there of) that grind your gears?:
For me scrums should be an attempt to win the ball. I cannot stand it when teams have successfully healed the ball then sit on it waiting for a collapse and they win a penalty.
It rewards the most negative play. Boring to watch for most people, especially if they try if three or four times.
I don't mind pushing the other side back, so pushover tries are OK, just when it sits stationary just milking the penalty. They should be told to use it.
Also, if a lineout is taken down and the defenders drive the lineout back, then the attackers should have used their first "stationary" if they want to drive it. How does it go from one direction to the other without being stationary in between?
Have you not watched much rugby recently? The only way you get to delay getting the ball out now is by holding it at the second row. If you aren't moving forward and the ball is at the 8s feet you get told to use it.
The improvement would be that if you held it in the middle of the scrum or didn't/couldn't hook it then the ball turns over (like a maul) -
The rule I have never quite understood is the 'deliberate throw into touch'. The idea being that the only way to legally put the ball into touch (or dead in goal) is with your foot, or other part of your body.
This doesn't make much sense to me. As long as you are passing/batting the ball backwards, I can't see how this negatively effects the game in any way.
You see it a bit when a grubber goes into the in-goal, and someone bats it dead and is duly penalised for it. Legally speaking the best play is for them to slide in, soccer-style, and kick the ball dead. Which to me is pretty dangerous.
I think every law should eliminate acts that negatively effect the game, and I just can't see how throwing/passing/batting the ball out does at all.
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@barbarian said in Rugby rules (or lack there of) that grind your gears?:
I think every law should eliminate acts that negatively effect the game, and I just can't see how throwing/passing/batting the ball out does at all.
Throwing the ball away prevents a contest.
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@antipodean said in Rugby rules (or lack there of) that grind your gears?:
@barbarian said in Rugby rules (or lack there of) that grind your gears?:
I think every law should eliminate acts that negatively effect the game, and I just can't see how throwing/passing/batting the ball out does at all.
Throwing the ball away prevents a contest.
So does kicking the ball away
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@Hooroo said in Rugby rules (or lack there of) that grind your gears?:
@antipodean said in Rugby rules (or lack there of) that grind your gears?:
@barbarian said in Rugby rules (or lack there of) that grind your gears?:
I think every law should eliminate acts that negatively effect the game, and I just can't see how throwing/passing/batting the ball out does at all.
Throwing the ball away prevents a contest.
So does kicking the ball away
Kicking the ball is done for territory.
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@Hooroo said in Rugby rules (or lack there of) that grind your gears?:
Thowing the ball is to give it to another player. It's just an action.
Not when you're deliberately throwing it out.
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@antipodean said in Rugby rules (or lack there of) that grind your gears?:
@Hooroo said in Rugby rules (or lack there of) that grind your gears?:
Thowing the ball is to give it to another player. It's just an action.
Not when you're deliberately throwing it out.
I would question why you can kick ball intentionally dead (behind) then. That's not for territory.
There is no value in kicking a ball out behing and throwing it out in terms of contest or territory
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Exactly Hooroo. There is a way to legally prevent a contest, and that's by kicking the ball.
Though I do see Antipodean's point. It's negative play. But short of introducing a 'deliberate' rule like AFL, there is still an inconsistency between throwing and kicking in the laws. Which doesn't make much sense to me.
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I've no doubt the disparity has come about as a result of the historical development of the game; kicking -> carrying -> passing.
What I don't like is the subjective nature of "deliberate". The same reason it infuriates me to see people getting away with "failed intercepts". I've cheated enough over decades to know genuine intercepts are normally taken.
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@Crucial said in Rugby rules (or lack there of) that grind your gears?:
@Chester-Draws said in Rugby rules (or lack there of) that grind your gears?:
For me scrums should be an attempt to win the ball. I cannot stand it when teams have successfully healed the ball then sit on it waiting for a collapse and they win a penalty.
It rewards the most negative play. Boring to watch for most people, especially if they try if three or four times.
I don't mind pushing the other side back, so pushover tries are OK, just when it sits stationary just milking the penalty. They should be told to use it.
Also, if a lineout is taken down and the defenders drive the lineout back, then the attackers should have used their first "stationary" if they want to drive it. How does it go from one direction to the other without being stationary in between?
Have you not watched much rugby recently? The only way you get to delay getting the ball out now is by holding it at the second row. If you aren't moving forward and the ball is at the 8s feet you get told to use it.
The improvement would be that if you held it in the middle of the scrum or didn't/couldn't hook it then the ball turns over (like a maul)Well, I suppose it depends what you mean by "much". By most people's standards, yes, lots. By the the Fern's standards, about normal (I sometimes watch Super games not involving NZ teams, I'm that sad).
Teams frequently hold the ball in the scrum longer than they need to, hoping for a penalty. Late in the recent Crusaders-Highlanders match IIRC, though I have deleted it so I can't check, the Crusaders did it. And got the penalty too, which is why teams do it.
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@Chester-Draws said in Rugby rules (or lack there of) that grind your gears?:
@Crucial said in Rugby rules (or lack there of) that grind your gears?:
@Chester-Draws said in Rugby rules (or lack there of) that grind your gears?:
For me scrums should be an attempt to win the ball. I cannot stand it when teams have successfully healed the ball then sit on it waiting for a collapse and they win a penalty.
It rewards the most negative play. Boring to watch for most people, especially if they try if three or four times.
I don't mind pushing the other side back, so pushover tries are OK, just when it sits stationary just milking the penalty. They should be told to use it.
Also, if a lineout is taken down and the defenders drive the lineout back, then the attackers should have used their first "stationary" if they want to drive it. How does it go from one direction to the other without being stationary in between?
Have you not watched much rugby recently? The only way you get to delay getting the ball out now is by holding it at the second row. If you aren't moving forward and the ball is at the 8s feet you get told to use it.
The improvement would be that if you held it in the middle of the scrum or didn't/couldn't hook it then the ball turns over (like a maul)Well, I suppose it depends what you mean by "much". By most people's standards, yes, lots. By the the Fern's standards, about normal (I sometimes watch Super games not involving NZ teams, I'm that sad).
Teams frequently hold the ball in the scrum longer than they need to, hoping for a penalty. Late in the recent Crusaders-Highlanders match IIRC, though I have deleted it so I can't check, the Crusaders did it. And got the penalty too, which is why teams do it.
Current interpretation is to mirror the ruck call which is a 'use it' once available.
Yes, some teams will try and push right to the edge of that. -
