Rugby rules (or lack there of) that grind your gears?
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@jegga said in Rugby rules (or lack there of) that grind your gears?:
Refs that let the halfback effectively roll the ball under the hookers feet but call a line out not straight when it's heading a gnats pube in the direction of the team throwing in.
This would require a bigger change than just a straight feed though. Current scrums can't physically hook a straight feed.
I'd be ok with a total re-assessment of scrums, though.
As I find the choice of; concede penalty or risk paralysis to be disgusting.
Sort out scrums, and the perverse incentives - which now require 3 specialists and 3 specialists subs for safety reasons.
Bring it back that a reserve hooker can safely prop when required - with the worse consequence being a tighthead. Not penalty or paralysis.
It's just a restart. We've turned a contested posesion restart into a technical penalty generating / avoiding phase. With consequences far outweighing the offence (by the offender) . Nothing makes my blood boil more that a watching a 'good' modern scrum where both teams are giving it there all until one finally breaks and gets penalised. With the 'winner' making no attempt to get the ball out. So cynical. Worse than cynical, it's borderline malicious.
Think of the ripple down flow of this change:
- to amateur teams that can't scrape enough front rowers together to form a team.
- to entrepreneurs in Texas pondering a Major League Rugby franchise, wondering whether a 23 man sport with 6 specialist front towers is just too damning expensive
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@Nepia said in Rugby rules (or lack there of) that grind your gears?:
@booboo said in Rugby rules (or lack there of) that grind your gears?:
@Nepia said in Rugby rules (or lack there of) that grind your gears?:
@booboo Re-read my post again, I didn't say anything about removing the maul, just the removal of the arbitrary start after it has been stopped. I don't think you need the re-start for your reasoning. If the mauls going well it's going to barrel down field sucking in those defenders anyway without this stop start bullshit. The worst ones are when the attacking teams go backwards, stop, restart and power back up the field. That's just wrong.
No I read it. I just disagree. I think one chance to restart is the correct balance.
A go backwards reset then go forwards scenario should be the one chance. I don't think that's always ruled that way though.
I disagree with your disagreeance. Why should a team be allowed to restart once the ball has stopped moving? I find it silly.
That's fine. We'll agree to disagree safe in the knowledge you are wrong
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One other change that I'd like to see is that when time is up (ie hooter has gone) and a team is held up over the line, the game should restart with a 5m attacking scrum rather than time being called. When the ball goes over the line the tackler doesn't have to release and everyone piles on so it's a bit of a free for all.
I think the game/half should not end with a team who has taken the ball over the goal line and failed to force it.
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@booboo said in Rugby rules (or lack there of) that grind your gears?:
@Nepia said in Rugby rules (or lack there of) that grind your gears?:
@booboo said in Rugby rules (or lack there of) that grind your gears?:
@Nepia said in Rugby rules (or lack there of) that grind your gears?:
@booboo Re-read my post again, I didn't say anything about removing the maul, just the removal of the arbitrary start after it has been stopped. I don't think you need the re-start for your reasoning. If the mauls going well it's going to barrel down field sucking in those defenders anyway without this stop start bullshit. The worst ones are when the attacking teams go backwards, stop, restart and power back up the field. That's just wrong.
No I read it. I just disagree. I think one chance to restart is the correct balance.
A go backwards reset then go forwards scenario should be the one chance. I don't think that's always ruled that way though.
I disagree with your disagreeance. Why should a team be allowed to restart once the ball has stopped moving? I find it silly.
That's fine. We'll agree to disagree safe in the knowledge you are wrong
Hmmm, what's that term all the internet warriors on here like to trot out? Something about Dunning-Kruger ....
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I don't know if it breaks a rule but it ought to; what really grinds my gears are reserves running into the in-goal to celebrate a try scored by their team mate.
... you're not part of the game. If you're warming-up then retreat behind the dead ball line and don't come into contact with those who are legitimately playing the game.
Sooner of later there is going to be a post-try scuffle (there seems to be a few of these recently) which involves a reserve and the ref will resort to carding a guy who's not officially part of the game.
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@Nepia said in Rugby rules (or lack there of) that grind your gears?:
@booboo said in Rugby rules (or lack there of) that grind your gears?:
@Nepia said in Rugby rules (or lack there of) that grind your gears?:
@booboo said in Rugby rules (or lack there of) that grind your gears?:
@Nepia said in Rugby rules (or lack there of) that grind your gears?:
@booboo Re-read my post again, I didn't say anything about removing the maul, just the removal of the arbitrary start after it has been stopped. I don't think you need the re-start for your reasoning. If the mauls going well it's going to barrel down field sucking in those defenders anyway without this stop start bullshit. The worst ones are when the attacking teams go backwards, stop, restart and power back up the field. That's just wrong.
No I read it. I just disagree. I think one chance to restart is the correct balance.
A go backwards reset then go forwards scenario should be the one chance. I don't think that's always ruled that way though.
I disagree with your disagreeance. Why should a team be allowed to restart once the ball has stopped moving? I find it silly.
That's fine. We'll agree to disagree safe in the knowledge you are wrong
Hmmm, what's that term all the internet warriors on here like to trot out? Something about Dunning-Kruger ....
Dunning ... is that something to do with self defeating drop kicks ...
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Another one, now that I think of it:
The law for when a lineout is deemed formed (and hence a QT is no longer available). Currently the law is that once there is 2 players from each team on the line of touch then the lineout is formed. This is silly because it means that the team with the throw can delay putting players into the lineout indefinitely and thus preserve the right to take a quick throw for a long time; often longer than I think the lawmakers would have intended. Technically there is a Free Kick offence for delaying to form a lineout but I've never seen it used in 20 years of watching rugby.
A simple fix would be to say that the lineout is formed once 2 players from the non-throwing team are in position. Maybe make it 3 players just to keep the quick throws coming.
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@Damo said in Rugby rules (or lack there of) that grind your gears?:
Another one, now that I think of it:
The law for when a lineout is deemed formed (and hence a QT is no longer available). Currently the law is that once there is 2 players from each team on the line of touch then the lineout is formed. This is silly because it means that the team with the throw can delay putting players into the lineout indefinitely and thus preserve the right to take a quick throw for a long time; often longer than I think the lawmakers would have intended. Technically there is a Free Kick offence for delaying to form a lineout but I've never seen it used in 20 years of watching rugby.
A simple fix would be to say that the lineout is formed once 2 players from the non-throwing team are in position. Maybe make it 3 players just to keep the quick throws coming.
Doesn't stop you throwing when the opposition isn't ready. Just has to be straight.
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@Damo said in Rugby rules (or lack there of) that grind your gears?:
Another one, now that I think of it:
The law for when a lineout is deemed formed (and hence a QT is no longer available). Currently the law is that once there is 2 players from each team on the line of touch then the lineout is formed. This is silly because it means that the team with the throw can delay putting players into the lineout indefinitely and thus preserve the right to take a quick throw for a long time; often longer than I think the lawmakers would have intended. Technically there is a Free Kick offence for delaying to form a lineout but I've never seen it used in 20 years of watching rugby.
A simple fix would be to say that the lineout is formed once 2 players from the non-throwing team are in position. Maybe make it 3 players just to keep the quick throws coming.
In practice though the ref will call lineout as formed if one team is waiting and formed.
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@Crucial said in Rugby rules (or lack there of) that grind your gears?:
@Damo said in Rugby rules (or lack there of) that grind your gears?:
Another one, now that I think of it:
The law for when a lineout is deemed formed (and hence a QT is no longer available). Currently the law is that once there is 2 players from each team on the line of touch then the lineout is formed. This is silly because it means that the team with the throw can delay putting players into the lineout indefinitely and thus preserve the right to take a quick throw for a long time; often longer than I think the lawmakers would have intended. Technically there is a Free Kick offence for delaying to form a lineout but I've never seen it used in 20 years of watching rugby.
A simple fix would be to say that the lineout is formed once 2 players from the non-throwing team are in position. Maybe make it 3 players just to keep the quick throws coming.
In practice though the ref will call lineout as formed if one team is waiting and formed.
Sometimes, but not always.
In any case the ref that does this is acting outside of law. If that is the practice then they should codify it. Otherwise we are just relying on ref's good judgement to ignore the laws when they deem it appropriate
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@Damo said in Rugby rules (or lack there of) that grind your gears?:
@Crucial said in Rugby rules (or lack there of) that grind your gears?:
@Damo said in Rugby rules (or lack there of) that grind your gears?:
Another one, now that I think of it:
The law for when a lineout is deemed formed (and hence a QT is no longer available). Currently the law is that once there is 2 players from each team on the line of touch then the lineout is formed. This is silly because it means that the team with the throw can delay putting players into the lineout indefinitely and thus preserve the right to take a quick throw for a long time; often longer than I think the lawmakers would have intended. Technically there is a Free Kick offence for delaying to form a lineout but I've never seen it used in 20 years of watching rugby.
A simple fix would be to say that the lineout is formed once 2 players from the non-throwing team are in position. Maybe make it 3 players just to keep the quick throws coming.
In practice though the ref will call lineout as formed if one team is waiting and formed.
Sometimes, but not always.
In any case the ref that does this is acting outside of law. If that is the practice then they should codify it. Otherwise we are just relying on ref's good judgement to ignore the laws when they deem it appropriate
I agree. I was talking about the instance mentioned where one team is deliberately standing off and it is obvious. Pretty rare to see a ref let them still take a QTI in that situation.
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England v Wales U20s last night. 7 Welsh subs run on to the field in the 48th minute to help celebrate a push over try.
With one of these subs also getting involved in a push and shove with an England prop.
Pathetic.
No sanction for this sort of unsporting behaviour. Yet if you get pinned (often deliberately ) and don't roll away quick enough you will be penalised and risk 3 points or a kick to a line out and resulting undefendable driving maul.
Although credit where it is due. After humiliating the English pack at least there wasn't any head patting. Just screaming in his face and pushing him in the chest. I like the classy, sporting way the game is heading.
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For me scrums should be an attempt to win the ball. I cannot stand it when teams have successfully healed the ball then sit on it waiting for a collapse and they win a penalty.
It rewards the most negative play. Boring to watch for most people, especially if they try if three or four times.
I don't mind pushing the other side back, so pushover tries are OK, just when it sits stationary just milking the penalty. They should be told to use it.
Also, if a lineout is taken down and the defenders drive the lineout back, then the attackers should have used their first "stationary" if they want to drive it. How does it go from one direction to the other without being stationary in between?
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@Chester-Draws said in Rugby rules (or lack there of) that grind your gears?:
For me scrums should be an attempt to win the ball. I cannot stand it when teams have successfully healed the ball then sit on it waiting for a collapse and they win a penalty.
It rewards the most negative play. Boring to watch for most people, especially if they try if three or four times.
I don't mind pushing the other side back, so pushover tries are OK, just when it sits stationary just milking the penalty. They should be told to use it.
Also, if a lineout is taken down and the defenders drive the lineout back, then the attackers should have used their first "stationary" if they want to drive it. How does it go from one direction to the other without being stationary in between?
Have you not watched much rugby recently? The only way you get to delay getting the ball out now is by holding it at the second row. If you aren't moving forward and the ball is at the 8s feet you get told to use it.
The improvement would be that if you held it in the middle of the scrum or didn't/couldn't hook it then the ball turns over (like a maul) -
The rule I have never quite understood is the 'deliberate throw into touch'. The idea being that the only way to legally put the ball into touch (or dead in goal) is with your foot, or other part of your body.
This doesn't make much sense to me. As long as you are passing/batting the ball backwards, I can't see how this negatively effects the game in any way.
You see it a bit when a grubber goes into the in-goal, and someone bats it dead and is duly penalised for it. Legally speaking the best play is for them to slide in, soccer-style, and kick the ball dead. Which to me is pretty dangerous.
I think every law should eliminate acts that negatively effect the game, and I just can't see how throwing/passing/batting the ball out does at all.
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@barbarian said in Rugby rules (or lack there of) that grind your gears?:
I think every law should eliminate acts that negatively effect the game, and I just can't see how throwing/passing/batting the ball out does at all.
Throwing the ball away prevents a contest.
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@antipodean said in Rugby rules (or lack there of) that grind your gears?:
@barbarian said in Rugby rules (or lack there of) that grind your gears?:
I think every law should eliminate acts that negatively effect the game, and I just can't see how throwing/passing/batting the ball out does at all.
Throwing the ball away prevents a contest.
So does kicking the ball away
