Crusaders v Hurricanes
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Not much to add to what has already been said. IMO Crotty had a massive game; he was everywhere. Definitely deserves that AB starting spot.
I hope Scott Barrett's injury isn't too bad; not just for the Saders, but also for the ABs. At least, next week, the Crusaders will have Sam Whitelock back.
Taufua gave away too many penalties, but apart from that he had a great game tonight. Tireless.
Watching the Crusaders play tonight, you wouldn't say they had just returned from SA.
The Hurricanes may have been relying on the Barretts' kicking game too much. Once you shut that down, a big part of their game is gone.
I hope Riccitelli's injury isn't too serious; you wouldn't want Apisai as your starting hooker and a newbie on the bench. Aumua is with the NZU20s ... Unsure who they'd pick.
I agree with the comments about Jane. If you wouldn't know who he was, you'd say - after watching this game - that he's a pretty average SR player. Maybe time to retire ...?
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@kev said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@hydro11 but that was last year, things have changed - your not as good and Crusaders are quite a bit better.
I think our backs are just as good. We lost Marshall, Halaholo and Woodward but gained J. Barrett. Also Proctor and Laumapae are much better and NMS should be back at some point. Our forward pack hasn't been as good this year because of injuries to Thompson, Coles and Fatialofa and the departures of Matu'u and Vito so we probably won't get that forward dominance.
My comment around the thirty points was because I don't think the Crusaders did that well at exploiting their dominance. Conceding 20 turnovers wasn't a good sign for the Crusaders attack. We missed a quarter of our tackles and they could only score one try which came from a rolling maul. They couldn't construct a try from general play.
I don't think you can have it both ways. You can't say the Hurricanes forwards were completely dominated, the Crusaders were brilliant and yet the Crusaders only deserved to win by eight points. If having a dominant forward pack of 80 minutes of rugby should only grant you eight points, I think we can declare "the game is won upfront" a major fallacy.
To be fair, the Crusaders did defend very well. Always up in our face. There were several passages of play where we lost 20 metres. I don't think they would have been able to pull off this strategy so successful is our forwards were going forward.
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I doubt he features much for nz if at all, but on current form Todd is playing better than cane imho
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@Stargazer said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
Not much to add to what has already been said. IMO Crotty had a massive game; he was everywhere. Definitely deserves that AB starting spot.
I hope Scott Barrett's injury isn't too bad; not just for the Saders, but also for the ABs. At least, next week, the Crusaders will have Sam Whitelock back.
Taufua gave away too many penalties, but apart from that he had a great game tonight. Tireless.
Watching the Crusaders play tonight, you wouldn't say they had just returned from SA.
The Hurricanes may have been relying on the Barretts' kicking game too much. Once you shut that down, a big part of their game is gone.
I hope Riccitelli's injury isn't too serious; you wouldn't want Apisai as your starting hooker and a newbie on the bench. Aumua is with the NZU20s ... Unsure who they'd pick.
I agree with the comments about Jane. If you wouldn't know who he was, you'd say - after watching this game - that he's a pretty average SR player. Maybe time to retire ...?
I think Jane has something to offer still. I think he is a better player than Goosen or Umaga-Jensen at this stage.
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There you go Lions. That's how you keep BB quiet. Just massacre his forward pack. Too easy.
Saders outstanding but still extremely disappointed with how the forwards got done so badly. The scrum was raped and the lineout was hideous. It's even worse considering the Saders were without Read and Whitelock and Barrett was injured fairly early on.
Some piss poor, loopy shit passes as well. Don't know wtf that was all about.
Coles, Proctor, Fatialofa and NMS needed back pronto.
But enough about the Canes. Massive respect Saders, I think you'll win the whole thing.
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@Canerbry said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
You'd call it a points victory for Richie Mo'unga over Beauden wouldn't you?
forwards dictated that really, but a fair enough canerbryism
Mo'Unga was shown up to be less of a "higher honours candidate" though on defence and generally, which is a good thing for his development. Fell off some tackles and was a tad out of his depth really. Great support from the players around him though, Havilli and Goodhue hit defenders hard and ensured front foot momentum.
I thought it was a compelling and tight tussle. hard hits dealt with glee from Shields and Moody in particular
You'd be close to starting Todd in the 1st test wouldn't ya?
A wee bit richie-lite and makig his presence felt in many games lately. He's a bit quicker that Cane too. Cane is solid and an AB project/leader, but Todd's having a bigger impact on field at the moment I posit.
What refreshing viewing when there's two teams who want to just get on with playing. No slow lineouts or fake injuries. At one stage during a Canes restart from halfway I heard the pedantic piper confirm to Barrett "same ball as the kick so play on"
And I thought "well if it was a different ball are you really going to hold up this game for a fucken ball boy" - attitude is everything in good rugby
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@hydro11 said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@Siam said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@hydro11 said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@kev said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@hydro11 I think you underestimate the Crusaders backs. Win by 30 🤣
We won by 25 last year with less forward dominance than the Crusaders had tonight. Not unreasonable.
We probably aren't going to get forward dominance against the Crusaders but we need to do better than tonight to compete.
Who gives a fuck about last year??
wierd conversation
I'm saying that a very similar Hurricanes team beat a very similar Crusaders team by 25 points last year having had less forward dominance than the Crusaders had tonight. Therefore I'm saying that if we had the same forward dominance the Crusaders had tonight, we would have won by thirty. I think results which happened last year are a decent predictor of what can happen this year.
I don't expect the Hurricanes to dominate the Crusaders in the forwards because the Crusaders are far better man for man. I tipped the Crusaders to win, after all.
You're kidding right? New in the Crusaders backline since last year: Hall (2nd half), Bridge, Goodhue, Tamanivalu, Mataele, Hunt (not sure whether these last two players even came on the field). Only left from last year: Drummond (1st half), Mo'unga, Crotty and Havili.
Add a mostly new coaching staff.
Last year's Crusaders backline couldn't defend. This year's backline clearly can.
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Yep Mo'unga bested Barrett. The same Mo'unga who Laumape repeatedly made his bitch. Switch flyhalves in that game and the Saders win by 20+.
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@Stargazer said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@hydro11 said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@Siam said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@hydro11 said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@kev said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@hydro11 I think you underestimate the Crusaders backs. Win by 30 🤣
We won by 25 last year with less forward dominance than the Crusaders had tonight. Not unreasonable.
We probably aren't going to get forward dominance against the Crusaders but we need to do better than tonight to compete.
Who gives a fuck about last year??
wierd conversation
I'm saying that a very similar Hurricanes team beat a very similar Crusaders team by 25 points last year having had less forward dominance than the Crusaders had tonight. Therefore I'm saying that if we had the same forward dominance the Crusaders had tonight, we would have won by thirty. I think results which happened last year are a decent predictor of what can happen this year.
I don't expect the Hurricanes to dominate the Crusaders in the forwards because the Crusaders are far better man for man. I tipped the Crusaders to win, after all.
You're kidding right? New in the Crusaders backline since last year: Hall (2nd half), Bridge, Goodhue, Tamanivalu, Mataele, Hunt (not sure whether these last two players even came on the field). Only left from last year: Drummond (1st half), Mo'unga, Crotty and Havili.
Add a mostly new coaching staff.
Last year's Crusaders backline couldn't defend. This year's backline clearly can.
Fair enough. It's still a lot easy to defend when the other team isn't getting quality ball
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@hydro11 said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@Stargazer said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@hydro11 said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@Siam said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@hydro11 said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@kev said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@hydro11 I think you underestimate the Crusaders backs. Win by 30 🤣
We won by 25 last year with less forward dominance than the Crusaders had tonight. Not unreasonable.
We probably aren't going to get forward dominance against the Crusaders but we need to do better than tonight to compete.
Who gives a fuck about last year??
wierd conversation
I'm saying that a very similar Hurricanes team beat a very similar Crusaders team by 25 points last year having had less forward dominance than the Crusaders had tonight. Therefore I'm saying that if we had the same forward dominance the Crusaders had tonight, we would have won by thirty. I think results which happened last year are a decent predictor of what can happen this year.
I don't expect the Hurricanes to dominate the Crusaders in the forwards because the Crusaders are far better man for man. I tipped the Crusaders to win, after all.
You're kidding right? New in the Crusaders backline since last year: Hall (2nd half), Bridge, Goodhue, Tamanivalu, Mataele, Hunt (not sure whether these last two players even came on the field). Only left from last year: Drummond (1st half), Mo'unga, Crotty and Havili.
Add a mostly new coaching staff.
Last year's Crusaders backline couldn't defend. This year's backline clearly can.
Fair enough. It's still a lot easy to defend when the other team isn't getting quality ball
Ahh fuck it...umm ...denying the opposition quality ball is what good defence is
it's not a 'luck' thing, you earn it
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
Yep Mo'unga bested Barrett. The same Mo'unga who Laumape repeatedly made his bitch. Switch flyhalves in that game and the Saders win by 20+.
Switch Laumape for Crotty and the Canes win, there's a straaaaawmaaaaaaan waiting in the sky.
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@hydro11 said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
We were completely reamed in the forwards, our backs were shut down by the rush defence and we only lost by eight points. That is the upside. If we had the forward dominance then we probably would have won by thirty. How to get the forward dominance against that pack is the big question. We have done it before though.
Get better forwards ...
That Saders tight five... faaaarking!
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@Canerbry said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
You'd call it a points victory for Richie Mo'unga over Beauden wouldn't you?
No
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Having said that I could see Cruden starting in front of Barrett on that form
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@No-Quarter said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
NMS, Coles, Fats and Proctor - we don't have any cover for them which is the problem so their injuries are hurting us. As good as Whitelock is having two AB locks to cover him is a nice luxary.
NMS and Proctor would have made very little difference. Also and the wings hardly saw the ball. Coles is obviously a loss and Fats possibly would have been better than an underdone Fifita.
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@booboo said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
Having said that I could see Cruden starting in front of Barrett on that form
I would like to think BB wouldn't be behind a pack that badly beaten though. IF (that's a massive IF) the Lions proved vastly superior in the forwards then maybe a case could be made for a different style and 10 than BB but I doubt that will be the case. That Saders front row with Whitelock and Read behind them won't get pushed around.
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@Siam said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@hydro11 said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@Stargazer said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@hydro11 said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@Siam said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@hydro11 said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@kev said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@hydro11 I think you underestimate the Crusaders backs. Win by 30 🤣
We won by 25 last year with less forward dominance than the Crusaders had tonight. Not unreasonable.
We probably aren't going to get forward dominance against the Crusaders but we need to do better than tonight to compete.
Who gives a fuck about last year??
wierd conversation
I'm saying that a very similar Hurricanes team beat a very similar Crusaders team by 25 points last year having had less forward dominance than the Crusaders had tonight. Therefore I'm saying that if we had the same forward dominance the Crusaders had tonight, we would have won by thirty. I think results which happened last year are a decent predictor of what can happen this year.
I don't expect the Hurricanes to dominate the Crusaders in the forwards because the Crusaders are far better man for man. I tipped the Crusaders to win, after all.
You're kidding right? New in the Crusaders backline since last year: Hall (2nd half), Bridge, Goodhue, Tamanivalu, Mataele, Hunt (not sure whether these last two players even came on the field). Only left from last year: Drummond (1st half), Mo'unga, Crotty and Havili.
Add a mostly new coaching staff.
Last year's Crusaders backline couldn't defend. This year's backline clearly can.
Fair enough. It's still a lot easy to defend when the other team isn't getting quality ball
Ahh fuck it...umm ...denying the opposition quality ball is what good defence is
it's not a 'luck' thing, you earn it
Denying the other team quality ball is mostly due to the forward pack being dominant (which I have been talking about for the past ten posts). It is a lot easier to play a rush defence if the ball is slow. I don't know how anyone could read my posts and think that I have not acknowledged how good the Crusaders forwards were or that they were lucky. My post was in response to a post mentioning how much the Crusaders backline has changed and denying the opposition quality ball is more a responsibility of a forward pack and not the backline.
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@Crucial said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@No-Quarter said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
NMS, Coles, Fats and Proctor - we don't have any cover for them which is the problem so their injuries are hurting us. As good as Whitelock is having two AB locks to cover him is a nice luxary.
NMS and Proctor would have made very little difference. Also and the wings hardly saw the ball. Coles is obviously a loss and Fats possibly would have been better than an underdone Fifita.
Proctor would have made a bit of a difference. Aso's defence was terrible again tonight. We were just lucky the Crusaders didn't exploit it.
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@hydro11 said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@Siam said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@hydro11 said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@Stargazer said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@hydro11 said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@Siam said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@hydro11 said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@kev said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@hydro11 I think you underestimate the Crusaders backs. Win by 30 🤣
We won by 25 last year with less forward dominance than the Crusaders had tonight. Not unreasonable.
We probably aren't going to get forward dominance against the Crusaders but we need to do better than tonight to compete.
Who gives a fuck about last year??
wierd conversation
I'm saying that a very similar Hurricanes team beat a very similar Crusaders team by 25 points last year having had less forward dominance than the Crusaders had tonight. Therefore I'm saying that if we had the same forward dominance the Crusaders had tonight, we would have won by thirty. I think results which happened last year are a decent predictor of what can happen this year.
I don't expect the Hurricanes to dominate the Crusaders in the forwards because the Crusaders are far better man for man. I tipped the Crusaders to win, after all.
You're kidding right? New in the Crusaders backline since last year: Hall (2nd half), Bridge, Goodhue, Tamanivalu, Mataele, Hunt (not sure whether these last two players even came on the field). Only left from last year: Drummond (1st half), Mo'unga, Crotty and Havili.
Add a mostly new coaching staff.
Last year's Crusaders backline couldn't defend. This year's backline clearly can.
Fair enough. It's still a lot easy to defend when the other team isn't getting quality ball
Ahh fuck it...umm ...denying the opposition quality ball is what good defence is
it's not a 'luck' thing, you earn it
Denying the other team quality ball is mostly due to the forward pack being dominant (which I have been talking about for the past ten posts). It is a lot easier to play a rush defence if the ball is slow. I don't know how anyone could read my posts and think that I have not acknowledged how good the Crusaders forwards were or that they were lucky. My post was in response to a post mentioning how much the Crusaders backline has changed and denying the opposition quality ball is more a responsibility of a forward pack and not the backline.
nah. you blew it when you said the Hurricanes "probably" would have won by thirty (that's at least 5 tries! - in a game where only 1 was scored!!).
Your words
no coming back from that nonsense mate
