NZ v SA Test Series
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@Hooroo said in NZ v SA Test Series:
@Chris-B. said in NZ v SA Test Series:
@Gunner said in NZ v SA Test Series:
@Chris-B. said in NZ v SA Test Series:
@Gunner Good luck with that.
He is innocent of the charges laid against him. Don't twist what didn't happen.
That is like saying anyone found not guilty is not innocent but not guilty as well.
Actually your second point is correct in a legal sense. Not guilty is not the same as innocent. But, it's the best you can get from the court - roughly, that the case couldn't be proven against you.
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@Chris-B I take your point, from a PR side of things this could blow up, especially with all the nonsense about a "rape culture" in the media lately, but at the end of the day he got accused of something that could not be proved in court. You can't ruin someone's career because of accusations alone. I'm comfortable with their decision to select him. If he can take a stack of wickets that won't hurt...
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@No-Quarter Well, at least if the shitstorm arrives, they've got David White to handle it all for them, so nothing's going wrong there.
I wonder - after his experiences in 2016 - whether Steve Tew would have allowed this?
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Appeasing the PC police never ends well. The people who aren't happy with Kuggeleijn being picked now, won't be happy in a year's time either. Chris you seem to be arguing that the people who don't want Kuggeleijn to be selected because of the rape trial are being irrational but we should listen to them anyway.
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@Chris-B. said in NZ v SA Test Series:
He's not innocent - he's not guilty - and it took two goes to get that verdict.
By the same token he was tried twice and both times they failed to get a guilty verdict.
Absolutely buy that a media shitstorm is going to ensue, but at the end of the day the national team should be selected on merit - it is a representative side. Being cleared on all charges this should be available for selection.
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@rotated said in NZ v SA Test Series:
@Chris-B. said in NZ v SA Test Series:
He's not innocent - he's not guilty - and it took two goes to get that verdict.
Being cleared on all charges this should be available for selection.
So if Cairnsie was still in his hey-day, would you be happy if he was picked?
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@Chris-B. said in NZ v SA Test Series:
@rotated said in NZ v SA Test Series:
@Chris-B. said in NZ v SA Test Series:
He's not innocent - he's not guilty - and it took two goes to get that verdict.
Being cleared on all charges this should be available for selection.
So if Cairnsie was still in his hey-day, would you be happy if he was picked?
Touché
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@Chris-B. said in NZ v SA Test Series:
@hydro11 I don't think I've expressed a view on their rationality one way or the other.
I assumed so because you haven't expressed any personal opposition to Kuggeleijn. The only reason you have given that he shouldn't be picked is because it gives NZC bad PR.
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Anyone protesting on this would need to be VERY careful. You cannot just hold up signs calling him a rapist or even imply it.
Equally the media would need to water any comments extensively. -
@Chris-B. said in NZ v SA Test Series:
@rotated said in NZ v SA Test Series:
@Chris-B. said in NZ v SA Test Series:
He's not innocent - he's not guilty - and it took two goes to get that verdict.
Being cleared on all charges this should be available for selection.
So if Cairnsie was still in his hey-day, would you be happy if he was picked?
All things being even - yes. It's a weird question though because Cairns' allegations direct relate to his performance on the field. So if Cairnsy was fixing games and underperforming I don't imagine he would have a strong case for selection.
A better comparison would be Ryder who I have always maintained should be considered for selection and for a majority of the past decade he has been one of our best 6 batsmen. Even when blowing three times the legal limit he is top 10.
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@rotated said in NZ v SA Test Series:
@canefan said in NZ v SA Test Series:
@rotated A sad indictment on our middle order that the guy three sheets to the wind would have walked into the side for most of that period
Several did probably judging by their performances.
Some probably should have had a couple of beersies before heading out to the middle
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Quite a well balanced article about the Kuggeleijn selection in the Herald, written by Kris Shannon.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11825197
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@Gunner said in NZ v SA Test Series:
Quite a well balanced article about the Kuggeleijn selection in the Herald, written by Kris Shannon.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11825197
Disagree, that article has an underlying assumption that 'he got away' with something. The reference to the young girl who claimed she was raped is also dubious, court decided that she was not rape, her plight is not Kuggeliejns fault, it is mostly her own.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback fair enough, but I didn't pick that up.
