All Blacks v Ireland II
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ere's a good Irish article: https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2016/1121/833216-ward-all-black-intentions-werent-malicious/
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@pakman said in Ireland II:
ere's a good Irish article: https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2016/1121/833216-ward-all-black-intentions-werent-malicious/
Yeah it is....but the comments make me despair
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I am wary that many of the comments I am reading are not from actual rugby fans but recent converts or fair-weather fans and are no better than the crap comments we see on our side on Stuff.
I am interested in hearing from someone over there on the views of those better educated in the game. -
I just had a read of the Munster fans board. The level of feral has much more reason behind it and probably on par with this board when we feel aggrieved.
A couple of things I find funny though.
First a lot of excuse making about losing two players key to their chances. Funny in that they don't credit the Chicago win to the fact the ABs lost their midfield and ended up with a flanker playing wing.
Second, the cry that all NZ rugby players are thugs. Funny in that they are pretty keen on those 'thugs' if they want to do a passport swap. Maybe they get put through a cleansing programme?
Part of the reason Ireland aren't quite as good as they could be is that they still have to rely on discarded NZ players to make up the numbers. Great for Jared Payne that he gets to play international rugby but the reality is he was never going to do so if he stayed in NZ.
EDIT: also a complete failure to recognise the betterment of Irish rugby under a NZ coach and Australian development manager.
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@Crucial Yeah, in a way I see all the misdirection and lack of responsibility as possibly a good thing from our POV.
Listening to those commentators, who obviously permeate through right from a high level of rugby, it's pretty apparent that they can't see any issues with their own play and lack of ability and come out swinging with all sorts of wild accusations when someone is just playing better. Any tackle or clean out is illegal and dangerous, as is playing aggressively and being too fast. If that's how they see things, then there's not much hope for improvement. They can't see how they have to get better, just that they're sweet angels and everyone else is cheating, including the refs (as an aside the whinging about recent directives was funny when they wouldn't actually state what those directives were).
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Interesting post I saw in response to a Kiwi calling out some Irish friends on the whining:
The problem in Ireland is rugby has now become fashionable and half the people watching it don't know the rules properly. All this bullshit about over aggressive ABs is fucking embarrassing to be honest. It's a mans game. We were Beaten fair and square
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@No-Quarter I'd also be very interested in seeing (2018?) SBW and ALB, I reckon they could be quite magical to watch together.
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@nostrildamus That's assuming SBW will reach his best level again after his latest injuries. This year, he seemed to be falling apart quite quickly. Admittedly, Titch's training regime may have played a role, but SBW will be 33 in 2018.
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@Stargazer yes well..2017 then and he won't be playing sevens one hopes..
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We are still unbeaten (so far) on the Europe tour aren't we? America doesn't count..
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I won't try and excuse some of the shite that's come out of Ireland since Saturday but I will mention that we have the worst media in sport when it comes to commentary and newspaper columns. A large portion of our support never saw a rugby ball before 2006 and since then, have had their entire rugby education dictated by hacks like Trevor Francis and Gavin Cummisky. Every game they've ever seen has been commentated on by a Sky Sports team paid to sensationalise mediocrity.
That coupled with too much time at a keyboard spent debating an opponent fan base who are fond of rowing in behind each other and digging their heels in (the Cane - Henshaw tackle for example, it wasn't a head clash but nor was it anything other than an accident) leads to very important internet arguments which eijits feel have to be won.
The large majority of rugby fans who play for, coach and watch their clubs, provinces and country on a regular basis are saying the same things about the game. We fronted up well against the best side in the world but failed to take advantage of the work our pack did and were punished for not being savvy enough in attack.
One point I read here which I'd disagree with is the idea that we ignored kiwi injuries two weeks ago when using ours as an excuse now. I write on munsterfans and we were all very aware of the impact losing Whitelock, Retallick and Crotty had in Chicago. Reading reports after the game, it did feel at times like NZ were the only side missing players when Ireland had O'Brien, O'Mahony, Henderson and Earls out as well.
Losing Henshaw, Sexton and Stander within 5 minutes so early on is just as fair a factor to bring up for us this week. Don't think anyone is suggesting we'd have won the game without those injuries, but those are big game players for Ireland and it's hard to slam a makeshift midfield for failing to spark without them.
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@munstergreen said in Ireland II:
One point I read here which I'd disagree with is the idea that we ignored kiwi injuries two weeks ago when using ours as an excuse now. I write on munsterfans and we were all very aware of the impact losing Whitelock, Retallick and Crotty had in Chicago. Reading reports after the game, it did feel at times like NZ were the only side missing players when Ireland had O'Brien, O'Mahony, Henderson and Earls out as well.
Losing Henshaw, Sexton and Stander within 5 minutes so early on is just as fair a factor to bring up for us this week. Don't think anyone is suggesting we'd have won the game without those injuries, but those are big game players for Ireland and it's hard to slam a makeshift midfield for failing to spark without them.
Fair call, my comment on that was directed to the numpties commenting under news articles.
I do fell that so much of this outcry is due to the influence of the live TV commentary though. I think it was the RTE one I had and it wouldn't have been a stretch for them to start accusing the ABs of carrying knives in their socks. The commentary was a disgrace and if anything regarding that game was pre-meditated it was those pillocks getting behind the mic and preaching about dirty play. Play up to your audience to some degree yes, but if the crowd at the game had been listening to them instead of folk at home you could easily accuse them of inciting a riot.
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@nostrildamus said in Ireland II:
We are still unbeaten (so far) on the Europe tour aren't we? America doesn't count..
It wasn't a regulation size field either.
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@Crucial said in Ireland II:
Fair call, my comment on that was directed to the numpties commenting under news articles.
I do fell that so much of this outcry is due to the influence of the live TV commentary though. I think it was the RTE one I had and it wouldn't have been a stretch for them to start accusing the ABs of carrying knives in their socks. The commentary was a disgrace and if anything regarding that game was pre-meditated it was those pillocks getting behind the mic and preaching about dirty play. Play up to your audience to some degree yes, but if the crowd at the game had been listening to them instead of folk at home you could easily accuse them of inciting a riot.
Yeah RTE are no better. The lads in the studio were far more balanced but the commentary team are never good. The squeaky voiced fecker Rule Nugent forces me to turn the sound off 3 minutes into every game and the woman interviewing Hansen afterwards was a disgrace.
Like I said, sports media is something we are uniquely bad at in this country.
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Hey all, another Paddy in giving his 2 cents!
It may be worth following up on what munstergreen said. We do certainly have issues with the media, but in many respects they just reflect the country too. Rugby is our 4th most popular sport and while there are a lot of people who love the game and are relatively knowledgeable about it there are also a whole heap of people who only watch the internationals. So they might see a sum total of about 6 or 7 games a year generally. The level of interest isn't that high from large portions of the population, and so the level of knowledge isn't either. Also, you get your impressions of the fans themselves from the Internet and the Internet is the home of outrage, hyperbole and polarisation!
All that said I do think Peyper is a poor referee, and he wasn't at all helped by his TMO. I have't watched it back yet but I'm sure both sides will have a list of grievances with the officials. At the end of the day NZ brought a level of intensity from the very start that was incredibly impressive. Ireland managed to live with it for the most part, but to win games you have to do more than that. We never really settled into the game in the first half. Losing Stander from the back row meant SOB had to play 80, which he maybe wasn't quite ready for. Then losing our 10 and 12 hurt too. Jackson is a good player, but he's no Sexton. And his form at the moment is a bit below what we'd expect from him. Ringrose is an outside centre who has only ever played against Canada and was forced to play inside centre against you guys. He can be good with that little bit of extra space but he was limited at 12.
In the second half the defensive effort from NZ was exceptional, but in the first half I do think there was a period during the Smith sin binning where Peyper could have been more forceful. Read was pinged at a scrum by the posts for breaking his bind and going after the ball while the Irish scrum was going forward. It was a gamble from him that paid off. He could have seen yellow under a different ref but obviously he felt better to risk the 3 than the 7 (something pretty much every pro team will do). Peyper let him away with it, but what really annoyed me was that Ireland did too. We had you guys under pressure in your 22 and you had conceded a good few penalties. We should have been going for the jugular there. Instead we went for 3 points, which still left us 2 scores behind. For me that's where the game was won and lost. In Chicago we made you pay for the 1 yellow you got. In Dublin we didn't. You guys were happy to concede 3 pointers in your 22 because you were scoring 7 pointers yourselves. That's not a moan or a complaint, it's a norm in pro rugby. It was up to us to punish you and we didn't.
Our execution at times let us down (Jacksons kick to Smith directly leading into the 3rd try for example), but you don't beat NZ by staying in touch with them. You beat them by getting out in front and staying there. We saw in 2013 how that very nearly worked for us and we saw in Chicago that it did work for us. Moving away from that attitude made it impossible for us to get back into it. We tried manfully, and I'm actually pretty happy with how our pack performed, but 25 mins in, after that scrum, we showed our hand. And that was that we weren't going to be ruthless enough.
Congrats on the win and apologies for the whinging and moaning. NZ deserved that win and Ireland didn't.
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@Crucial
"also a complete failure to recognise the betterment of Irish rugby under a NZ coach and Australian development manager."There are certain people who don't like Joe in Ireland, generally related to provincial rivalries. Most of us love the guy. Especially those of us from Leinster. That he's a genuinely nice bloke as well only adds to it.
There are a lot of people who don't like Nucifora though. Again, predominantly provincially motivated. He's playing a long game in Irish rugby and a lot of people don't look past this week/month/season. They want their teams to win now, regardless of what that means for them or Ireland in 5-10 years time. Sadly I think a lot of the work he's doing will only come to fruition when he's gone and he won't get the credit, but I hear he's a thick neck on him so won't be losing any sleep over that.
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@munstergreen said in Ireland II:
@Crucial said in Ireland II:
Fair call, my comment on that was directed to the numpties commenting under news articles.
I do fell that so much of this outcry is due to the influence of the live TV commentary though. I think it was the RTE one I had and it wouldn't have been a stretch for them to start accusing the ABs of carrying knives in their socks. The commentary was a disgrace and if anything regarding that game was pre-meditated it was those pillocks getting behind the mic and preaching about dirty play. Play up to your audience to some degree yes, but if the crowd at the game had been listening to them instead of folk at home you could easily accuse them of inciting a riot.
Yeah RTE are no better. The lads in the studio were far more balanced but the commentary team are never good. The squeaky voiced fecker Rule Nugent forces me to turn the sound off 3 minutes into every game and the woman interviewing Hansen afterwards was a disgrace.
Like I said, sports media is something we are uniquely bad at in this country.
Eh I call bullshit on that. There are plenty of good sports journalists operating in Ireland across a number of sports. Just because you're getting embarrassed by the actions of a few eejits (on a par with plenty of other countries) doesn't mean you have to go to the other extreme and throw everyone under the bus.
As for public comments sections, well everyone's got an opinion. Just like me in this one.
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@Pot-Hale said in Ireland II:
@munstergreen said in Ireland II:
@Crucial said in Ireland II:
Fair call, my comment on that was directed to the numpties commenting under news articles.
I do fell that so much of this outcry is due to the influence of the live TV commentary though. I think it was the RTE one I had and it wouldn't have been a stretch for them to start accusing the ABs of carrying knives in their socks. The commentary was a disgrace and if anything regarding that game was pre-meditated it was those pillocks getting behind the mic and preaching about dirty play. Play up to your audience to some degree yes, but if the crowd at the game had been listening to them instead of folk at home you could easily accuse them of inciting a riot.
Yeah RTE are no better. The lads in the studio were far more balanced but the commentary team are never good. The squeaky voiced fecker Rule Nugent forces me to turn the sound off 3 minutes into every game and the woman interviewing Hansen afterwards was a disgrace.
Like I said, sports media is something we are uniquely bad at in this country.
Eh I call bullshit on that. There are plenty of good sports journalists operating in Ireland across a number of sports. Just because you're getting embarrassed by the actions of a few eejits (on a par with plenty of other countries) doesn't mean you have to go to the other extreme and throw everyone under the bus.
As for public comments sections, well everyone's got an opinion. Just like me in this one.
Plenty is pushing it. There are a few though. Murray Kinsella in the 42 gets a lot of love from rugby fans, and rightly so, but there are others that are decent. Sadly the clickbait sites like balls.ie are getting a lot of attention from this.
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@Pot-Hale said in Ireland II:
Eh I call bullshit on that. There are plenty of good sports journalists operating in Ireland across a number of sports. Just because you're getting embarrassed by the actions of a few eejits (on a par with plenty of other countries) doesn't mean you have to go to the other extreme and throw everyone under the bus.
As for public comments sections, well everyone's got an opinion. Just like me in this one.
Our high profile rugby and soccer journalism is atrocious. Murray Kinsella is terrific but the masses aren't reading through pages of statistics and bar charts to better their knowledge of the game.
They are reading the one eyed, bitter and often silly ramblings of the many hacks employed by the Times, the Independent and the Examiner. They're listening to the shocking commentary of clowns like Nugent, Sheehan or that incredibly one eyed Northern fella on Sky and getting their analysis from fools like George Hook, Eamon Dunphy and Trevor Francis.
