Ireland v NZ - Chicago Showdown & Dublin Duel
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@akan004 said in Ireland v NZ - Chicago Showdown:
I listened to the Watson rant on radiosport last night. He loves to distort facts is what I took out of it, like saying that half the wins were achieved against minnows at the RWC. When has 3 out of 18 ever equated to 50%, Mark? He was also very tough on the selectors for selecting Cane over Ardie Savea and Todd. What is this guy on? Anyone who knows even a bit about rugby can see that Cane is definitely a step up from Todd and Savea is simply not physical enough at this stage to warrant a starting role. And for him to discredit all the wins against the other big teams this year due to this loss was extremely unfair as Ireland are not a bad side. The reference to 98 was simply laughable.
Having said that, I did agree with him that the Abs and the selectors did go into this game without the total focus that they would have taken into a test against the boks or the wobs.. The selections and rotation as well as the drop off in intensity in the first half were an indication of this. I also support Mark's stance that this was a terrible day for All Black rugby as the proud record against Ireland is now gone, and am with him when he had a go at all the pc idiots like Veitch and his little sidekick, Guy Haveldt who actually appeared to be happy about this result.
Slight correction, the record is not gone. It stands that we were unbeaten against Ireland for 111 years. Which is fucking incredible given the quality sides and world class players they've produced over the years - that is a record we can be bloody proud of.
Also, I'd never defend Vietch but congratulating the Irish does not mean you are happy the ABs lost. It was a cracker of a match, being able to sit back and acknowledge that as well as acknowledging the gravity of the win for Ireland shows a level of maturity sadly lacking among the likes of Watson and Ratpoo. All AB loses hurt as they are few and far between, and I was bloody gutted on Sunday morning. But when you see what it means to Ireland rugby you can't help but say "yeah, well done, I can imagine how good you must feel right now".
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@No-Quarter Veitch did more than just congratulate the Irish. He actually said that we should be happy about today (Sunday) and enjoy it since it's a great day for world rugby. He even had a go at some guy who texted in saying that this was a terrible result and there was nothing to celebrate from a NZ perspective.
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@Pot-Hale Enjoy the victory mate, it was well deserved. Makes the beer taste better too doesn't it?
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@akan004 said in Ireland v NZ - Chicago Showdown:
@No-Quarter Veitch did more than just congratulate the Irish. He actually said that we should be happy about today (Sunday) and enjoy it since it's a great day for world rugby. He even had a go at some guy who texted in saying that this was a terrible result and there was nothing to celebrate from a NZ perspective.
Fair enough, as I said, I'm never going to defend Veitch.
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I think these comments from Lochore are right on the money.
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@akan004 said in Ireland v NZ - Chicago Showdown:
@No-Quarter Veitch did more than just congratulate the Irish. He actually said that we should be happy about today (Sunday) and enjoy it since it's a great day for world rugby. He even had a go at some guy who texted in saying that this was a terrible result and there was nothing to celebrate from a NZ perspective.
Well, I agree with him.
That was a good result for world rugby.Wins only matter when there's also a chance of losing.
With the post-Mandela ANC abusing the peaceful handover of power, and hobbling the Boks. World rugby needs new powers.
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@Rapido It may be a good result for world rugby, and I emphasis the word may, but why should we be ok or happy about it? It's not our job to prop up world rugby. The bigger nations already have a significant advantage over us in terms of player and financial resources. I wonder if you will be ok with us going back to having a 75% win record rather than the 90% + that we have enjoyed over the last few years? Be careful about what you wish for.
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@akan004 said in Ireland v NZ - Chicago Showdown:
@Rapido It may be a good day for world rugby, and I emphasis the word may, but why should we be ok or happy about it? It's not our job to prop up world rugby. The bigger nations already have a significant advantage over us in terms of player and financial resources. I wonder if you will be ok with us going back to having a 75% win record rather than the 90% + that we have enjoyed over the last few years? Be careful about what you wish for.
Christ. We didn't do it on purpose.
We lost a game, that result is good for the bigger picture of world rugby.
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@KiwiMurph not so sure I agree.
It was a bad day at the office.
The test v Aus was always gonna be a battle, more mental than anything, so is always tough to truly gauge those sorts of thing. The Aussie had tripped us up before, we had been sitting at this precipice before. We had the same issues with the RWC, it wasn't that we werent good enough, the mental side plays a huge part.
I heard Andy Murray say something on the radio yesterday that I thought resounded for the AB team...was something along the lines of after you achieve something great (the record) next time you come out, there is a risk you can be a bit flat.
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@taniwharugby said in Ireland v NZ - Chicago Showdown:
I heard Andy Murray say something on the radio yesterday that I thought resounded for the AB team...was something along the lines of after you achieve something great (the record) next time you come out, there is a risk you can be a bit flat.
Absolutely.
Even the 2015 ABs who are the best NZ team I have seen and a contender for best ever - couldn't follow up their quarter final pounding of France, and all the elation and emotional energy released, with a good performance the next week.That 2015 semi was a crap performance by us. ( Was our equivalent of the 2011 final. ) but saved by some old heads dragging us through after other old and young heads spent most of the time fluffing their lines and giving away the dumbest penalties any time they crossed our half.
Then follow it up a week later with a great performance in the final (minus the 10 minutes bad boy Ben spent in the bin foe his stupid foul)
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@akan004 said in Ireland v NZ - Chicago Showdown:
@Rapido You are missing the point. I was having a go at Veitch for being ok about the loss. I honestly don't give a rats arse about whether or not it was a good result for world rugby. From a NZ rugby perspective, it was a bad result.
I'm not missing the point. Why are you not ok with Veitch being ok with the loss?
He isn't player or management.
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@taniwharugby I take your point but I think there can be some criticism of the All Blacks game plan being rather predictable - particularly in attack where our first receiver is almost always wide of the breakdown and we set from there. I didn't notice us try and pick and drive once for example and our kicking game was poor. A lot of this comes down to the halves and improved greatly once Perenara came on. Of course there were other huge issues (lineout, ill discipline etc) but I think a better job could have been down to change the approach earlier in the piece.
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@KiwiMurph said in Ireland v NZ - Chicago Showdown:
I didn't notice us try and pick and drive once for example
I made the same point during the game. I can't remember the last time I saw this in an AB test.
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Surely that points more to an off day than being predictable if we didn't use pick and drive, which we would normally?
As I have said earlier, was a perfect storm of players who couldn't play and key players being off their game.
At this level, being off by just a little is the difference between winning and losing, and we lost.
Don't think we need to hit the panic button yet, if we lose again on tour, we will certainly see the chicken littles go running, quite possibly a good many who were 'bored' of the ABs winning all the time too.
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What does pick n drive achieve though, when done against a defence that doesn't commit many to the breakdown? Ireland, Australia even the Argies aren't throwing huge numbers there and that is probably why we haven't seen much of it this season.
I think structurally we are okay, not perfect and there will be areas to look at. The great thing is that I don't think the coaching staff will be rushing to change all of the hard work. They have all experienced losses before and have found ways to bounce back.
We haven't lost two consecutive for a long time, so I think they will stick to the structures and work out a few different ways to shore up the defence, cut down the errors and send a rocket regarding discipline.
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@taniwharugby I'm not suggesting the ABs need to panic - but I do think there can be some learnings out of it than can be taken on board other than just brushing it off as an off-day - that would be a mistake in my opinion. The good news is we get to play Ireland again so it is the perfect opportunity to see what they have learnt etc.
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@akan004 said in Ireland v NZ - Chicago Showdown:
@KiwiMurph said in Ireland v NZ - Chicago Showdown:
I didn't notice us try and pick and drive once for example
I made the same point during the game. I can't remember the last time I saw this in an AB test.
We did very little hard running at first receiver either, our plan is to outflank defences with quick passing. Sometimes it pays to straighten the attack, especially as Ireland were rushing up fast
