All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
I also find it funny how before the match everyone was bitching about Julian's selection and afterward voting for him in MOTM votes. He did exactly the thing I wanted to see him there to do. A Lomu-esque run to break the game open. I haven't seen Naholo do that.
Excuse me, @Bones and were fluffing Savea as hard as we could before the match in the face of all the detractors. Bones even posted evidence to back up our fluffing (very rare on the Fern).
Now the MOTM poll has him as one of our top 3 peformers. I feel very vindicated.
Don't leave me out of the Savea fluffers!
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The post-game presser has overshadowed the match itself in the coverage here, and I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing.
Cheika bit too hard on the newspaper cartoon, for sure. It's just a paper FFS, their job is to stir the pot. The same thing happens here all the time. By reacting you just play into their hands, and the old phrase is as true as ever - 'don't pick a fight with someone who buys ink by the barrell'.
I think the truth on Cheika is somewhere in the middle, as it always is. I actually like the fact he speaks his mind, and is unafraid to be a bit controversial in the media. Our game needs all the headlines it can get, and fuck's sake we can all be a bit too precious about things sometimes.
We're all allowed to come on here and froth over what happens in a game, and yet somehow we expect our coaches and players (who actually have skin in the game) to be paragons of grace and impartiality. I don't want Cheika to fawn over the ABs at every post-game presser. We know they're great, but they are our enemy! I don't want them to love each other, I like that both sides hate losing to one another.
That said, Cheika does need to tone it down a touch. Just a touch. Being controversial in post-game media conferences is a risky game, and there isn't much difference between being Wayne Bennett and being Piet de Villiers. He's probably a bit too close to PDiv right now, and just needs to take a deep breath.
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@barbarian said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
That said, Cheika does need to tone it down a touch. Just a touch. Being controversial in post-game media conferences is a risky game, and there isn't much difference between being Wayne Bennett and being Piet de Villiers. He's probably a bit too close to PDiv right now, and just needs to take a deep breath.
Particularly when you're going first, and all the Kiwi media in the room now have something to tell Steve Hansen in the fashion they wish.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@Bones it's a shit call because savea made first contact, and the Aussie was running a valid support line. If that were called every time it happened the game would be a joke.
The law is pretty clear that you can't run a support line that impedes a would be tackler. If the law changes to your way then chasing defenders could be shoved away by "support" players. That really would be a joke.
The only questionable aspect of this call was materiality. DHP put himself in the hands of a notoriously crap TMO and lost the gamble. If Savea wasn't a risk to Speight then he didn't need to touch him or run a support line either.what, so you can't run a support line between a defender and the ball once a break has been made? come on, that happens all the time, and if it were penalised all the time the game would be a farce and most of the great breakout tries ever scored would be called back. savea pushed the aussie first, then got shoved back as the aussie continued to try to run valid support lines, then savea complained to the ref. if the situations had been reversed i would have been screaming at the tv.
No doubt. Feel free to penalise Savea and everyone else that impedes players without the ball, we might see some more tries scored.
But you can't run a serious support line behind someone and we don't want to see NFL style blocking.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
But you can't run a serious support line behind someone and we don't want to see NFL style blocking.
Definitely.
I was thinking about the situation again this morning in another context:
- ball carrier is a prop, running in the tram tracks
- Only the fullback in front, but defending backs chasing hard
- Centre running in support, on the outside
- As the prop gets closer to the defending fullback, his centre cuts inside, and puts his hands up to catch an offload
- Collides with a defending winger, having not seen the guy coming.
- Prop runs over the fullback (naturally) and scores.
Now obviously you could visualise this any number of ways, and again, depending where the collision happens, it might produce a different result.
But the intent from DHP appears clear on the replay, where this situation would be different.
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@NTA said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@barbarian said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
That said, Cheika does need to tone it down a touch. Just a touch. Being controversial in post-game media conferences is a risky game, and there isn't much difference between being Wayne Bennett and being Piet de Villiers. He's probably a bit too close to PDiv right now, and just needs to take a deep breath.
Particularly when you're going first, and all the Kiwi media in the room now have something to tell Steve Hansen in the fashion they wish.
The media in the press conference were fine, they seemed bemused more than anything about Chieka's overreaction and conveyed it pretty accurately to Hansen.
Remember it was only the NZ Herald that was being dicks.
He was asked for his comment on the world record, a perfectly reasonable question. His reply was unprofessional and immature.
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It was a curious response to being asked about the achievement given the Aussie media have been hounding the ABs for not delivering a soliloquy honouring the loser of the past two Word Cup finals.
I imagine the Rugby 360 guys will be super dissapointed in Cheika.
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@rotated said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
the Aussie media have been hounding the ABs for not delivering a soliloquy honouring the loser of the past two Word Cup finals.
No they haven't. That's just bullshit right there.
I'm not saying our media is better than yours, or any such thing. Both are pretty equal tbh in the 'even-handed' way they view the game in each nation.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
What I find odd about the Mumm-Retallick thing was that Retallick seemed ot be struggling after the impact and I dont recall him leaving the field, but we hear after he has had concussion, one assumes from this incident...so either the Dr's let him stay on or he knew how to pass the test??
Seemed odd we kept Whitelock on too when he seemed to be limping heavily the whole time with 3 rolls of taping on his foot.
Kaino was already off with Squire on. I'm not sure if Aride replaced Todd at that point as well. Who were we going to replace Whitelock with?
I think Kaino came on for BBBR later on due to concussion. Unless there was blood?
I don't know the substitution rules anymore. -
My question re: Cheiks is this. He has won 30% of games this season has won 56% of games as a coach. I believe they would have struggled against Argentina had they played them in Argentina.
They have signed him until the next world cup. If he loses say 2/5 (England and/or Wales/Ireland) on the EYOT would they cut him?
Who would be in the hunt to replace him and who would actually want to take them over could potentially be career suicide. We can harp on about them turning up at Eden Park but if the All Blacks turned up and lost by 27 this forum would be going nuts.
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@barbarian said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@rotated said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
the Aussie media have been hounding the ABs for not delivering a soliloquy honouring the loser of the past two Word Cup finals.
No they haven't. That's just bullshit right there.
Both were regurgitated in the News and Fairfax press. The point has been repeated on other occasions too.
Sadly, the selfishness didn't end there McCaw didn't even thank his coaches, teammates, God or his family - there is no speech portion of the trophy giving ceremony.
Following his comments re: Owens on Saturday I would hope Kafer is put on medical leave - for all the qualms we have about Marshall I can't quite say we have equivalents to this dross.
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@NTA said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@Rocky-Rockbottom the front page, not the forum. Some frothing idiocy on that thread from both sides
The forum thread got shut down last night. Read through it and clearly some had lost the plot but some wanted to discuss the game beyond all the headlines.
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All this talk of respect - seriously, fuck off.
Year and years of Richie's a cheat, New Zealanders are classless, the constant fucking moaning against everything NZ rugby, the pissing and bitching from Aussies during RWC visit, I'm totally fucking over it.
I really can't be fucked with insults & advice from Australians about respect in sporting circles.
On the whole, I've done my best over the years to provide some reason where I think we are getting ahead of ourselves / shown arrogance / demeaned the opposition. But over this weekend, there has been a clear narrative to do everything in their power for global "neutrals" to demean the fantastic achievement of 18 wins in a row and divert attention away from it. The usual shit of Ab's offside (we were, we got penalised btw), AB's favouritism from refs, and then the final nail if this shower of shitness, the global attention on Chieka's whinge being FAR FAR greater than that of the achievement of this bunch of blokes.
And people want to talk to us about respect, or lack there of.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
Again, other than vague references to taking the little ball he had to the line, when and where was he supposed to have taken control? It was the first half, the abs had scored 3 tries despite losing the collisions and missing too many tackles. Id be delighted to know what past legends would have done any differently? Dan Carter played in a shitload of games when the abs were down at half time despite being arguably the better team. Was he then not taking control of the game? Not being direct enough?
I'm all for fair criticism and fill your boots about the goal kicking thing, but this "take control" things appears to be based more on preconceived notions than anything that actually occurred during the game.
Dan Carter? Yes, he was regularly criticised for not taking control of the game especially towards the end of his career.
But you're right, 'control/influence' is a hard thing to quantify because there are no direct stats for it. And not made any easier in this case because Cruden wasn't a perfect comparison when he came on. But if I was to have a crack, it would be this:
Barrett played about 50 mins during which time ABs had 33% possession. Cruden played about 30 mins during which ABs enjoyed 37% possession, so a little more (and slightly better quality) but not a huge difference.
Barrett's kick-run-pass-metres run stats were 1-7-1-0. Cruden's were 7-15-6-27.
My interpretation is that one player is demanding the ball in his hands and trying to make things happen and the other isn't. I'm sure your interpretation is different. But I think it's more informative than pointing at the number of tries that were scored while each player was on.
Just to be clear, I think Barrett is deservedly our starting first -five. I just don't think his general performance this time was particularly dominant. But we're obviously never going to agree so I'll just leave it there.
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@MajorRage said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
, the global attention on Chieka's whinge being FAR FAR greater than that of the achievement of this bunch of blokes.
What do you think is going to generate more clicks for a UK site?
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Lauding the ABs record - particularly given the next 4 games will all be records.
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Telling their audience that New Zealand in general doesn't respect anyone else
Let's remember their business is not to do what's right or friendly.
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@NTA said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@MajorRage said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
, the global attention on Chieka's whinge being FAR FAR greater than that of the achievement of this bunch of blokes.
What do you think is going to generate more clicks for a UK site?
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Lauding the ABs record - particularly given the next 4 games will all be records.
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Telling their audience that New Zealand in general doesn't respect anyone else
Let's remember their business is not to do what's right or friendly.
You can't see any irony at all in this position?
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@barbarian said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
The post-game presser has overshadowed the match itself in the coverage here, and I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing.
Cheika bit too hard on the newspaper cartoon, for sure. It's just a paper FFS, their job is to stir the pot. The same thing happens here all the time. By reacting you just play into their hands, and the old phrase is as true as ever - 'don't pick a fight with someone who buys ink by the barrell'.
I think the truth on Cheika is somewhere in the middle, as it always is. I actually like the fact he speaks his mind, and is unafraid to be a bit controversial in the media. Our game needs all the headlines it can get, and fuck's sake we can all be a bit too precious about things sometimes.
We're all allowed to come on here and froth over what happens in a game, and yet somehow we expect our coaches and players (who actually have skin in the game) to be paragons of grace and impartiality. I don't want Cheika to fawn over the ABs at every post-game presser. We know they're great, but they are our enemy! I don't want them to love each other, I like that both sides hate losing to one another.bolded text
That said, Cheika does need to tone it down a touch. Just a touch. Being controversial in post-game media conferences is a risky game, and there isn't much difference between being Wayne Bennett and being Piet de Villiers. He's probably a bit too close to PDiv right now, and just needs to take a deep breath.
I get that and you get coaches at all age groups and all levels losing their shit at some stage. But for a guy who is supposed to be a professional and an adult, he showed an incredible amount of immaturity and childish behaviour at that press conference. I mean, he wasn't getting unfair or hard questions about his record this season or whether his job was on the line. All they asked him was what he thought about the 18 win record. He could have just said great achievement or something. But instead he went on some rant how they (the abs) don't care about what he thinks because of the Herald picture and the bug thing.
At the end of the day, us guys here are keyboard nobodies who can rant and rave without any consequences. He's the Aus coach ffs and should at least act with the level of maturity expected of that position. I'd be straight out embarrassed if an ab coach had a tanty like that. Just compare Henry's response in 2007 to Cheika's now. Again, yes pressure and disappointment, but that's no excuse for acting like a toddler.
