NH club rugby
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I actually think the Pro 12/14 sounds quite workable. From a timing point of view. With it being effectively in hiatus during the height of the SH summer/NH winter.
I was very dubious. Thinking of examples like the Blues just playing in mid-summer Tokyo.
So the 2 SAF franchises will effectively go:
- closing half of P14 season in SH Autumn
- then mid-winter. Presumably the SAF season is structured so they can play either/or club rugby, or Vodacom Cup, or maybe even Currie Cup.
- opening half of P14 season in Spring
- hiatus in summer (have their off season
But that traveling will be the issue. Especially if it ever goes trans-Atlantic.
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I don't know how sustainable a Pro14 will be. But in the short term I'm glad that these 2 SAF teams with high numbers of players 'of colour', and that actually are improving- will stay pro for at least a few more years.
As an outside I'm wanting the forced 'transformation' stage to end as quickly as possible. So that they can be great again. I also don't want their non-transformation players giving up in greater numbers that a reduction to 4 pro teams would trigger.
Long term. I'd want Super Rugby if it is to stay a whole of SH enterprise to be something like 2 conferences (South-Atlantic & Oceania), with just the playoffs involving cross games between these 2 halves of the Southern Hemisphere.
My hunch is that involving Japan and other North Pacific nations is not tenable with keeping South Atlantic.
Don't know which way we are going.
I also don't see USA involvement with Pro 14 being tenable, especially if it involves SAF.
I don't see USA involvement in either of these 2 tournaments being tenable until they are at a stage where they have effectively a North American conference, eg enough pro teams in North America that they are self sufficient in their own league and it isn't until play off time that the big travelling starts.
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@Rapido said in NH club rugby:
I actually think the Pro 12/14 sounds quite workable. From a timing point of view. With it being effectively in hiatus during the height of the SH summer/NH winter.
I was very dubious. Thinking of examples like the Blues just playing in mid-summer Tokyo.
So the 2 SAF franchises will effectively go:
- closing half of P14 season in SH Autumn
- then mid-winter. Presumably the SAF season is structured so they can play either/or club rugby, or Vodacom Cup, or maybe even Currie Cup.
- opening half of P14 season in Spring
- hiatus in summer (have their off season
But that traveling will be the issue. Especially if it ever goes trans-Atlantic.
Can you translate that into month names?
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Quiz question for viewers:
What do over 200 Kiwis, over 200 South Africans, over 100 Aussies and over 250 Pacific Islanders have in common?
Answer: They all have Pro contracts with Northern Hemisphere rugby clubs as their season is about to start. Those are the numbers before King and Cheetahs join Pro14 and Force or Rebels get wiped, and those missing 2018 Super rugby contracts look for short-term contracts. I did a quick review of rosters and found 215 from NZ, 207 from SA, 102 from Australia, 90 from Fiji, 88 Tonga and 66 Samoa. It is staggering indeed. No wonder the deteriorating quality in depth in super rugby. I can only see it getting worse with 3 less teams now.
Bristol has 29 foreign imports, London Irish 28, Newcastle 27, Narbonne 24, Worcester 22, Oyonnax 22, and Timisoara and Clermont 20 each by my quick counts. That includes players from European neighbours - not just from down under.
I am interested to know what people think about the scale of this. Surely an Islanders franchise must be set up to protect Islands rugby.
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Statement: Expansion to Guinness PRO14 Championship
Celtic Rugby and the South African Rugby Union have today confirmed that the Toyota Cheetahs and the Southern Kings will join an expanded Guinness PRO14 tournament in time for the upcoming 2017/18 season. A long-term strategic agreement has been signed by both parties which will allow the participation of two South African franchises in the renamed Guinness PRO14 Championship. The agreement means that the Championship will take place across the northern and southern hemispheres and marks the first phase of expansion as the Guinness PRO14 becomes a truly global tournament. This move will contribute to the drive for ever higher standards that we demand across the tournament and provide greater resources to our clubs who will compete in the most testing environment the Championship has ever created. We can also reassure supporters across the Championship that all current home and away Derby games have been protected – these fixtures are sacrosanct to the tournament and those tribal rivalries are just one element of what makes the Guinness PRO14 so special. With a new format, new teams and new audiences the Guinness PRO14 – which leads World Rugby statistics for Positive Play – will hit even greater heights in 2017/18.NEW FORMAT The addition of the Toyota Cheetahs and the Southern Kings will require the Championship to introduce a new Conference format as a league format is not suited to a 14-team cross-border tournament. The Guinness PRO14 will adopt a two-conference model which will allows for the new clubs to be added into the Championship without need to add extra rounds in 2017/18. **Conference A** Munster (IRFU) Ospreys (WRU) Glasgow Warriors (SRU) Cardiff Blues (WRU) Connacht (IRFU) Zebre Rugby Club (FIR) Toyota Cheetahs (SA Rugby) **Conference B** Scarlets (WRU) Leinster (IRFU) Ulster (IRFU) Edinburgh (SRU) Benetton Rugby (FIR) Dragons (WRU) Southern Kings (SA Rugby)* Each conference will contain 7 teams with an equal split of teams from each union * Every team plays 21 regular season games * Every team to play each other at least once * All Home & Away Derby fixtures will remain in place * Italian, Scottish and South African teams will play an additional Derby fixture to even out the schedule (e.g. Edinburgh will play Glasgow Warriors three times) * The Guinness PRO14 Final Series will now include Quarter-Finals allowing six clubs to reach the knock-out stages (teams 1-3 from each Conference) * The top 3 clubs from each conference will qualify for the Champions Cup while the team with the highest points total outside of those six teams across both conferences will claim the final Champions Cup place **South African clubs will not be eligible to qualify for EPCR tournaments at present** The Conferences need to fulfil two criteria. First, there must be an equal number of teams from each union in both conferences. Secondly, there must be a competitive balance based upon the previous season’s final placings that feed into union rankings. To create an equal number of teams per union each conference will contain: * 2 Irish teams; 2 Welsh; 1 Italian; 1 Scottish, 1 South African Additionally, for the entrance of the South African teams their Super Rugby final placings were used for ranking. Please note: To maintain competitive balance the Conferences will be reset each season based upon rankings from the previous campaign.FIXTURES The regular season will consist of 21 Rounds, which is one game less than the previous format. These Rounds will be made up from a combination of: * 12 Home & Away games in your team’s conference * 7 Home OR Away games against each team from the other conference * An additional 2 Rounds to ensure all derby fixtures are played home & away (this means Scottish, Italian, South African clubs play three derbies) The fixture list has been drafted for all 21 rounds, Rounds 1-13 will be confirmed next week (commencing August 7) after the Championship’s broadcast partners have made their selections for live television broadcasts and the clubs have been consulted. -
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@pukunui said in NH club rugby:
God i hate conference based competitions. It's like some commitee has got together and said "how can we make this as complicated as possible?"
Almost always it is about trying to squeeze more of something in and almost inevitably it results in a diluting of the product.
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As long as the conferences are evenly matched, there's no real issue with them. If you want an expanded competition within the same timeframes, you have no other option.
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Conference A and Conference B, eh? Very inspiring!
I read somewhere that this move basically solves a problem for SARU re what to do with the two franchises tipped overboard from Super Rugby and also gets a bit of Saffer cash into the Pro12 TV deal, thus helping the Celts to try and keep their better players away from English and French clubs. They need to be careful though: Super Rugby has shown us that if you dick around with competitions too much, eventually the public might start to lose interest. Which might mean less rather than more in the TV deal. -
The PRO12 started out as the Celtic League in 2001 with 15 teams in two pools/conferences.
It's not particularly complicated. Play the teams in your pool home and away. Play the teams in other pool once either home or away. And all derbies are kept since they are the most popular and get best attendances.
£6m extra in the pot for next six years, plus new TV deal to be renegotiated this coming season.
I'm looking forward to it and have my season ticket already bought some weeks ago.
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I wonder if this will help towards a global season. If this is a fiscal success for the two SA teams and established teams, I imagine that others will find a way into Northern Comps.
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@Pot-Hale said in NH club rugby:
@Hooroo
I think this is a step in that direction. Anayi & Co intend this to be a global club championship - not a NH or European one. It's the first comp that encompasses both hemispheres.TIL Japan is in the SH.
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@Crash said in NH club rugby:
Yep,however if the Cheetahs and Kings are not successful i.e. they don't win a lot of games - will they still be seen as a viable prospect for punters?
Has anyone actually seen Treviso, Zebre and the Dragons play?
Outside a few eye opening wins they're generally very shit.
The Cheetahs and Kings should finish above these three for starters.
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@MiketheSnow You would think - except the SA teams do seem to suffer more than most when not playing at home. They seem to grow an extra leg when playing in the Republic, and are a bit like Samson with short hair when away from home too long. The rigors of a home and away comp plus travel will surely take their toll.
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@Crash said in NH club rugby:
Yep,however if the Cheetahs and Kings are not successful i.e. they don't win a lot of games - will they still be seen as a viable prospect for punters?
I think the Kings are on the verge of turning things around. They played some great rugby after the international break
Against some considerably weaker opposition than SR sides they'll do fine
