All Blacks 2024
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
I'm not saying Savea should be our No 8 but that doesn't mean he's played badly.
Let's try this another way: Do you think he deserves to be the starting 8 based on form? Submissive tackling, ruck watching, terrible ball security, getting bundled into touch? This is not the same player that was a standout in the RWC last year. Surely form counts for something?
Sititi has been great but is unproven against top teams. He went missing in the physicality stakes in the SRP final and he got bullied a bit physically in SA so he still had some development in front of him.
He was playing an alien position.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
His freak game is the World Rugby Player of the year level form.
We really only saw glimpses of that in Auckland against Argentina.
I know the player ratings aren't much to go by but I don't think I've seen anyone rate him lower than 6 this year and more often than not it's been 7, 8, 9.
He's not been as bad as people made out.
He's been rubbish mate. His defense is appalling now. The soft try that Paisami scored in B1, the poor body height for McReight to score in B2 - when is the last time you saw him fold someone? He's all about the scrag to try and get a steal, more often than not costing us metres and putting nobody on their arse ever.
In attack he has also been very poor, he's lost the ball in contact repeatedly (3x in B1), and he's been bundled into touch and/or away from support more than once.
A steal and a few post-contact metres every game is not the performance I'm looking for from our number 8.
He should be dropped to the bench.
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Yeah Savea has made more tackles for the ABs than any other player this year. More dominant tackles than any other player and he also has the highest percentage of tackles completed at 98%.
I think you guys have some confirmation bias and recency bias happening here. You've formed an opinion, ignore the good stuff, and only focused on the bad stuff. Youre not remembering the rest of the year or his career.
He definitely should get a break.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
I don't get why people think Ardie has been poor?
Because I watch the games, not form my opinions on statistics from the window licking collective called rugbypass.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
Yeah Savea has made more tackles for the ABs than any other player this year. More dominant tackles than any other player and he also has the highest percentage of tackles completed at 98%.
I think you guys have some confirmation bias and recency bias happening here. You've formed an opinion, ignore the good stuff, and only focused on the bad stuff. Youre not remembering the rest of the year or his career.
He definitely should get a break.
Nobody is saying he's not had a great career. His highlight reel is impressive, his workrate unquestionable.
But recency bias is exactly what is required when looking at someone's current form and position in the team. He can't survive on past glory, what he did last season is completely irrelevant to the team we pick now for a given Saturday.
I don't buy for a second that he's had more dominant tackles than anyone else btw, where did that stat come from?
I agree a break would be good for him, though I was suggesting he just get moved to the bench - he would be a wonderful bench guy, as injury cover for all 3 loose forward spots but ideally an impact player for 25-30 mins.
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Stats are from RugbyPass. Considering he's made the most tackles its not surprising he's made the most dominant tackles too.
You guys think he's been terrible.
Looking at Stuff, Rugbypass and Planet Rugby player ratings for the last two weeks he's got three 7's and three 8's.
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he's made the most tackles because he has played, by the length of the Flemington straight, the most minutes. By your own shit stats his "per 80" tackles figure is lower than basically every other loose forward.
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Personally I don't think he's been terrible, his workrate is still good - but he has made a lot of mistakes and has not been effective, so I'd still put him on the bench.
The bare facts of it are that we're getting outplayed in the loose forwards by all comers, and both our veterans are also getting outplayed by a 21 year old kid playing out of position in their own team. -
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
Stats are from RugbyPass. Considering he's made the most tackles its not surprising he's made the most dominant tackles too.
You guys think he's been terrible.
Looking at Stuff, Rugbypass and Planet Rugby player ratings for the last two weeks he's got three 7's and three 8's.
i dont think to many if any are saying hes been terrible, at most he's just been down on his previous levels.
I biggest problem with him, and its not reflected in stats, is how he works with the other loosies, they still play like guys that met the on the bus to the ground
you can have an amazing opera singer, the worlds best rock guitarist and the worlds best trombonist....theyre all playing music....individually theyre all playing music very well....but are they complimenting each other?....is playing together making them better? i dont think so and the ONLY person they have trying changing....is savea
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Pretty much my feelings
But when you opt to win now and don’t, it must be considered below par.
Despite some positives Razor's first Rugby Championship was a failure
If the All Blacks had decided to roll the dice and build for the future during this campaign, the results would be understandable.
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Yes I get your point about tackles per 80 minutes. I'm not saying his defense has been stand out but I am saying it hasn't been poor as others have claimed. He's only missed 2 tackles this year. He's done nothing for people to claim his defense has been poor this year - especially compared to Sam Cane who's let multiple tries in over the last 3 games.
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only missed 2 tackles all year? I call bullshit on that.
And what do the stats say about him backing off and scragging forwards running at him? allowing insane levels of momentum to develop. I bet it is down as a "tackle made" even though it was complete shit. And it has happened more than once, and against those huge rampaging australian forwards.
Through shit defense, crap rucking cleaning, and the large amount of ball he has turned over i call bullshit on the "he hasn't been that bad" calls.
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Personally I wouldn't have Savea at 8 and I would have never have made Cane the primary 7 or captain. That's one of the major reasons the Foster era was a failure in my opinion.
Having Savea at 8 does impact the balance but Cane is a much bigger problem in the loose forwards compared to Savea.
I actually don't mind if Savea goes to the bench either. Overall he has been the best and most consistent loose forward for us this year.
I don't think they have loose forward balance right and I also don't think they have the right balance in the tight five either and that is impacting how the loose forwards play. If you look at the starting tight five from the weekend there is not a single one of them who can reliably make metres up the middle. Taylor is a good runner but its always out wide which isn't what we need.
William's made an immediate impact on that front when he came on.
We need William's starting and preferably with one of Tuipolutu or Taukei'aho. Having tight forwards who can reliably go up the middle will help the loose forwards. Our scrum, lineout and maul will not suffer by bringing these guys in.
This will be even more important against Ireland and France.
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If it helps you I'd rather see Sotutu at 8.
I think if you're going to make extreme claims that he has been complete shit then there needs to be something in the stats to confirm that and there isn't. Then you've got three different media outlets rating him an 8 or a 7 in both games.
It's just not adding up.
Personally I would have rated him a 7 in both Bledisloe games.
Cane was the one that was rubbish in both games. You could tell that Cane was disappointed when he came off with his game. I saw that watching, I saw it in the ratings, I saw it in the stats.
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lol at media ratings.
a 7? In Bledisloe 1?? How many times did he lose the ball in contact??
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Savea
No 1 for carries
No 2 for tackles
No 4 for defenders beaten
No 8 for lineouts -
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
Personally I would have rated him a 7 in both Bledisloe games.
7 for Bledisloe 1?
Savea lost possession 3 times and butchered an almost certain try but trying to bulldoze his way through multiple Wallabies which resulted in a held up/goal line drop out.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
Then you've got three different media outlets rating him an 8 or a 7 in both games.
the same media outlets concluding that Beaudy is our 10 forever and thoroughly outplayed DMac? Those media outlets?
The analysis on here is usually miles ahead of the media. The sauce is better, too
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
Sititi has been great but is unproven against top teams. He went missing in the physicality stakes in the SRP final
This is simply not true. He topped both tackles and carries for the Chiefs. He was excellent in a team that was thrashed.
I remember it pretty well, because my thoughts after watching him the week before in the Hurricanes demolition were 'let's see how he goes when the shoe is on the other foot'. -
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
Then you've got three different media outlets rating him an 8 or a 7 in both games.
the same media outlets concluding that Beaudy is our 10 forever and thoroughly outplayed DMac? Those media outlets?
The analysis on here is usually miles ahead of the media. The sauce is better, too
Wot? That is a sad reflection on the media. Bloody hell!
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