If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?
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I didn't think I would be happy but yes I am
-most of the new talent look better value than the old guns
-the best current 10 question seems settled for me
-the potential of Jordan at 15 is clear
-ALB is making a stronger claim for 12 (they floated him around a bit, we have 2 solid 13 options IMO plus Big Leicester returning)
-Ratima Tosi Williams and Williams are stayers
-the skills gaps are clear
-our line defence and lineouts are improving
-we smashed our second-half voodoo (and the Wellington curse) -
Our propping depth is insane
We are not far off from clicking
The Doommongery on here is insane. -
@BerniesCorner said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
Our propping depth is insane
We are not far off from clicking
The Doommongery on here is insane.Just like we weren't far off clicking in the last 3 years.
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@Bones said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@BerniesCorner said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
Our propping depth is insane
We are not far off from clicking
The Doommongery on here is insane.Just like we weren't far off clicking in the last 3 years.
Was that a common perception on here...?
Felt like everyone felt like the ABs were always shit (though less shit when Schmidt was involved).
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@Mr-Fish said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@Bones said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@BerniesCorner said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
Our propping depth is insane
We are not far off from clicking
The Doommongery on here is insane.Just like we weren't far off clicking in the last 3 years.
Was that a common perception on here...?
Felt like everyone felt like the ABs were always shit (though less shit when Schmidt was involved).
If we could catch and/or pass we would've looked a helluva lot better...
Sounds familiar.
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@Frank said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@Chris-B said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@Frank Be confident and say it yourself if that's what you believe!
Havili - if they take five midfielders he'll be the fifth.
Christie - probably not.
Cane - for the past month it has looked an awful lot like they think he's still the best openside in New Zealand. What have you seen the makes you think they think someone else is better?
TJ - I wouldn't b surprised.
Jesus I was joking.
You're actually serious.Well, what does logic tell you?
On Cane - he's started the past four tests. The other specialist openside in the squad, Papali'i, has been available for three of them - but, hasn't even made the bench. That seems a very strange way to nurse Sam to his hundred caps to me. It looks to me that they think he's their number one openside - doesn't it? And if he is - it's a bit hard to see why they would suddenly drop him when they have three very tough tests to win.
On Havili - Razor told us that that they see him and Jordie as specialist 2nd fives, ALB can play both - and Rieko and Billy are specialist centres. The other specialist 2nd five is crocked and may be marginal for the start of the EOYT.
At the last selection waypoint, they picked Dave, and now he's played 10 minutes off the bench. The other contenders have been playing NPC.
Fern favourite, AJ Lam, has had a chunk of time injured and aside from that has, I believe, been playing centre - for a team that's struggling to make the top 8. Aside from which, he's spent most of his career playing wing - played maybe half a dozen Super games at 12. Carries strongly, but can he pass? can he kick? can he read an international offence? Rieko's been playing centre for about five years and half the Fern wants to shift him back to the wing because they still don't think he can do some of these things (though I have a suspicion that if Billy Proctor were to make a hash of centre, Rieko would suddenly become a much better player)! But I digress. My more likely candidate is Quinn Tupaea, but when Waikato played Ta$man the other week, Quinn was playing on the wing - so that doesn't bode well for him being promoted to be a test 2nd five.
I reckon Dave is sailing in clear air!
TJ's a bit more murky, bacause although they clearly prefer him to Hotham, they may well prefer Ratima and Roigard to TJ - in, which case, they might choose the development option - and take Hotham as their thyird halfback.
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@Chris-B said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
. It looks to me that they think he's their number one openside - doesn't it?
This contention that they nursed him to 100 is hilarious, and it would show up Razor as a coach if he's been playing a player he doesn't want for contractual reasons.
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@Chris-B said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@Frank said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@Chris-B said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@Frank Be confident and say it yourself if that's what you believe!
Havili - if they take five midfielders he'll be the fifth.
Christie - probably not.
Cane - for the past month it has looked an awful lot like they think he's still the best openside in New Zealand. What have you seen the makes you think they think someone else is better?
TJ - I wouldn't b surprised.
Jesus I was joking.
You're actually serious.Well, what does logic tell you?
On Cane - he's started the past four tests. The other specialist openside in the squad, Papali'i, has been available for three of them - but, hasn't even made the bench. That seems a very strange way to nurse Sam to his hundred caps to me. It looks to me that they think he's their number one openside - doesn't it? And if he is - it's a bit hard to see why they would suddenly drop him when they have three very tough tests to win.
On Havili - Razor told us that that they see him and Jordie as specialist 2nd fives, ALB can play both - and Rieko and Billy are specialist centres. The other specialist 2nd five is crocked and may be marginal for the start of the EOYT.
At the last selection waypoint, they picked Dave, and now he's played 10 minutes off the bench. The other contenders have been playing NPC.
Fern favourite, AJ Lam, has had a chunk of time injured and aside from that has, I believe, been playing centre - for a team that's struggling to make the top 8. Aside from which, he's spent most of his career playing wing - played maybe half a dozen Super games at 12. Carries strongly, but can he pass? can he kick? can he read an international offence? Rieko's been playing centre for about five years and half the Fern wants to shift him back to the wing because they still don't think he can do some of these things (though I have a suspicion that if Billy Proctor were to make a hash of centre, Rieko would suddenly become a much better player)! But I digress. My more likely candidate is Quinn Tupaea, but when Waikato played Ta$man the other week, Quinn was playing on the wing - so that doesn't bode well for him being promoted to be a test 2nd five.
I reckon Dave is sailing in clear air!
TJ's a bit more murky, bacause although they clearly prefer him to Hotham, they may well prefer Ratima and Roigard to TJ - in, which case, they might choose the development option - and take Hotham as their thyird halfback.
While I don't agree with your assessment of AJ Lam I think you're generally right in what you've written here. Lam has barely played in NPC. He's basically been injured 80% of the season and you can consider him unavailable - not that they'd pick him over Havili anyway. Otherwise he can cover wings and midfield better than any other player in NZ imo.
I don't agree with the Coaches rating of Sam Cane. I saw in RugbyPass Sam Cane was rated a 3 out of 10 for yesterdays game. Sam Cane is great when he's fit and good but he can be very inconsistent even when fit. Last week he made 5 tackles and missed 3. This week he gave away 3 penalties and botched a few things. He just has too many errors in his game. Papali'i very rarely makes errors and is a genuine 80 minute player who makes clutch plays in the dying minutes of the game.
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@brodean To troll @Frank a bit - I wouldn't be surprised
if AJ were to make the EOYT squad - but, as a wing. He made the NZ A squad loast year so he can't be far from the frame if he's fit.Haven't commented on the subjectives of who's the better player at seven - just what the logic of recent selections tells me.
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@Chris-B said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
if AJ were to make the EOYT squad -
I'd be happy with that.
You're too nice to troll Chris.
Leave that to piston wristed gibbons like me (and Bones of course) -
@Bones said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@BerniesCorner said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
Our propping depth is insane
We are not far off from clicking
The Doommongery on here is insane.Just like we weren't far off clicking in the last 3 years.
That was NEVER the vibe under Foster.
That's why it was so miserable. There was no potential with that miserable game plan under that regime. If we executed it to 100% efficiency we still would have lost as we did.
We got the results our game plan deserved and didn't look like we were improving or had ANY semblance of being dominant at any point.
When we won it looked like we had to grind and get lucky and hope the opposition screwed up.
Even when things improved under Schmidt/Ryan it still looked like we needed others to underperform to have a shot and maximize the very few opportunities we'd have during the game.
With the current team it looks like we're capable of completely blowing any team off the park. We've had extremely dominant spells where it's out of the other teams hands and feels as if its up to us whether the score finishes 20-10 or 50-10.
28-5 after 20 mins against Aussie.
40-0 at 40 mins against Argentina.
27-14 up against SA in SA (4 tries to 1 up) before our capitulation. -
Disagree on Schmidt/Ryan. There was a clear difference in game plan between them and Plumtree/Mooar. I would say our current game plan is actually closer to Mooar's plan.
@kpkanz said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
With the current team it looks like we're capable of completely blowing any team off the park.
This is an extremely optimistic take. From what I've seen we lack the physicality and mental fortitude to sustain pressure against teams like South Africa and Argentina when they're on.
I don't see us blowing Ireland or France off the park with our current game plan and the preferred players.
If the evidence you're basing your claim on is the last two games against the Wallabies its an extremely flimsy foundation.
The Wallabies forwards were making easy metres against us in the first half. Our defense was weak.
There was a massive difference in physicality and starch in the defense from the replacement forwards yesterday.
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@brodean said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
Disagree on Schmidt/Ryan. There was a clear difference in game plan between them and Plumtree/Mooar.
@kpkanz said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
With the current team it looks like we're capable of completely blowing any team off the park.
This is an extremely optimistic take. From what I've seen we lack the physicality and mental fortitude to sustain pressure against teams like South Africa and Argentina when they're on.
I don't see us blowing Ireland or France off the park with our current game plan and the preferred players.
If the evidence you're basing your claim on is the last two games against the Wallabies its an extremely flimsy foundation.
I agreed that the game plan changed under Schmidt/Ryan. Just said it didn't provide the high ceiling the current iteration does to be extremely dominant.
And I didn't base this off just the last two games. We have shown this the entire year.
I genuinely would not be surprised if we go unbeaten on the EOYT. Not only that, but beat teams convincingly.
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@brodean said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
Half our tries yesterday were down to Clarke and Jordan's individual brilliance.
For me there is nothing special about our attack outside those two. With Clarke out in the 2nd Bok test we failed to score a single try.
I credit that to TJ/BB as the halves pairing more than anything. That's the worst our phase attack has looked all year.
The 2nd Bok test we had a guaranteed try and also a probable try only stopped by professional fouls by SA that resulted in two yellow cards for them.
Our new attack shape and phase play is highly promising. A bit more work could be done once we're close to the goal line (which was severely lacking in SA) but our attack outside of that is looking extremely potent.
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@brodean said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
Lam has barely played in NPC. He's basically been injured 80% of the season and you can consider him unavailable
@Chris-B said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
AJ Lam, has had a chunk of time injured and aside from that has, I believe, been playing centre - for a team that's struggling to make the top 8
If that's their thinking, the double standards are staggering.
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@Bones said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@brodean said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
Lam has barely played in NPC. He's basically been injured 80% of the season and you can consider him unavailable
@Chris-B said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
AJ Lam, has had a chunk of time injured and aside from that has, I believe, been playing centre - for a team that's struggling to make the top 8
If that's their thinking, the double standards are staggering.
Especially if they pick that young cantab no mark in the backs for the EOYT
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I'm in two minds
On one hand we look to be developing and the squad seems to be evolving - young players are taking their opportunities which is great to see.
On the other hand our attack looks worryingly basic and question marks remain about the selectors ability to make some tough calls - so far they haven't had to but push is going to come to shove in a month or so.
I don't see our attack working up north - unless we make some tough selection decisions combined with some variation in our pattern.
Take ALB for example - he's looked brilliant at 12 but poor at 13 and 23. Is he going to get a shot at 12 or continued to be shoehorned into the 23 or 13 jerseys?
England Ireland France in the space of 14 days is going to show us exactly where we are at.
The positive side of that very difficult 3 game stretch is there will almost certainly be a variety of players given opportunities due to injuries almost guaranteed to occur.
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@sparky said in If we win Bled 2, are you happy heading into the end of year tour?:
@BerniesCorner The interesting call is Jordie Barrett or ALB at 12. Much though I admire Jordie's skills and talent, ALB gave a more composed performance today and made better decisions.
Further complicated by the decision to make Jordie vice captain
