Springboks vs All Blacks 2
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@nostrildamus said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@stodders said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@BerniesCorner Reiko from the bench would give real impact against tiring defences and cover for 11/13/14.
Clark and Jordan on the wings. Just need to find a fullback who is brave under the high ball, with a good boot and a sense of adventure to attack when the opportunity presents itself. Love maybe. What about Sullivan? Too raw?
I'm not sure about Sullivan but he should be tried, has size, and his boot could be useful
We definitely need a few cannons in the team. Had my hopes up for Stevenson 18 months ago when he was scoring tries every week but apparently he tackles like a rhubarb tart.......although we still concede 30 odd every other week with Beaudy back there so can it be any worse.
Maybe if you are booting them back down into their corner you dont have to defend so much
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First thing is, that was a SA team with major changes. They've beaten us twice with significantly different teams.
That game was a real step backwards for me, and I'm much more disappointed with that than the previous loss. Reason being we went back to box kicks (and even a defensive bomb FFS), and we couldn't contest. Meanwhile the Saffas put up contestable kicks, and we didn't protect our catchers anywhere near as well as they did. We were shit at that under Foster, and I'm really quite fucked off to see that we haven't improved in those areas at all.
Up front, not too bad. Scrum under pressure early. Cody Taylor was superb, even despite fucking up the last lineout - shoulda been subbed by then really. Lomax I thought was really good around the field, other than the card, which I thought should have been penalty only - and again he should have been subbed by then. He makes a lot of tackles, and has pretty sweet hands for a fatty. Williams holding his own which is enough for a young fella, he'll be an asset on the bench once de Groot is back. Did Ofa manage to play 10 minutes without getting penalised this week?
Tupou Vaai. Way to come right when we need you mate, best lock on the park for me.
Scott Barrett looked a bit better this week though still not quite full noise and that knock on was a fucking shocker.
Sititi was what I expected, got stuck in to his carries which was great, missed a bit on defence but played pretty well for a starting debut out of position in SA. Not good enough to be getting MOTM votes when Taylor, Vaai, Lomax, Cane all played the way they did though.
Savea, jeez I just don't know anymore.
Ratima was a huge upgrade on TJP, who was as expected shit when he came on. Experience does not equal composure.
McKenzie bit disappointing off the tee. He is still the guy who can shift the ball quick enough to get around the defence though.
Jordie a bit anonymous, Rieko underwhelming.
Telea pretty horrible, Reece too really - though TJ joining the maul deserves a mention for that Marx try.
The sky didn't fall with Jordan at fullback. Beauden added nothing.That ref is fucking hopeless, but he's no part of the reason for the loss. He was far better than last time we had him (Twickenham?) and a million times better than in whichever game it was at the WC where he made a fucking disgrace of himself.
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@stodders said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@nostrildamus he’s playing 7 for Auckland, so play him there. If Cane doesn’t go on EOYT, 7s should be DP, Segner and Savea to cover if needed.
Segner in front of Lakai?
Am not of the Canes Mafia, but I'd be leaning Lakai.
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@BerniesCorner said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
In my book after that performance Sititi gets to pick 8 or 6.
Do people agree it was mad to take him off.Savea is good enough to play 6,7 or 8.
Things aren't quite right in the loosies.No. Think it was the right call. Think he'd gassed himself. Wasn't prominent in that period just prior to subbing.
You can see why they picked him. Both sides of the ball.
Edit: a future at 7? A Cane replacement who carries?
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@reprobate said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
First thing is, that was a SA team with major changes. They've beaten us twice with significantly different teams.
That game was a real step backwards for me, and I'm much more disappointed with that than the previous loss. Reason being we went back to box kicks (and even a defensive bomb FFS), and we couldn't contest. Meanwhile the Saffas put up contestable kicks, and we didn't protect our catchers anywhere near as well as they did. We were shit at that under Foster, and I'm really quite fucked off to see that we haven't improved in those areas at all.
Up front, not too bad. Scrum under pressure early. Cody Taylor was superb, even despite fucking up the last lineout - shoulda been subbed by then really. Lomax I thought was really good around the field, other than the card, which I thought should have been penalty only - and again he should have been subbed by then. He makes a lot of tackles, and has pretty sweet hands for a fatty. Williams holding his own which is enough for a young fella, he'll be an asset on the bench once de Groot is back. Did Ofa manage to play 10 minutes without getting penalised this week?
Tupou Vaai. Way to come right when we need you mate, best lock on the park for me.
Scott Barrett looked a bit better this week though still not quite full noise and that knock on was a fucking shocker.
Sititi was what I expected, got stuck in to his carries which was great, missed a bit on defence but played pretty well for a starting debut out of position in SA. Not good enough to be getting MOTM votes when Taylor, Vaai, Lomax, Cane all played the way they did though.
Savea, jeez I just don't know anymore.
Ratima was a huge upgrade on TJP, who was as expected shit when he came on. Experience does not equal composure.
McKenzie bit disappointing off the tee. He is still the guy who can shift the ball quick enough to get around the defence though.
Jordie a bit anonymous, Rieko underwhelming.
Telea pretty horrible, Reece too really - though TJ joining the maul deserves a mention for that Marx try.
The sky didn't fall with Jordan at fullback. Beauden added nothing.That ref is fucking hopeless, but he's no part of the reason for the loss. He was far better than last time we had him (Twickenham?) and a million times better than in whichever game it was at the WC where he made a fucking disgrace of himself.
Good point about Jordan. I was expecting some flashy injecting himself 15 move though - is that a powder dry coaching decision?
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@booboo said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@BerniesCorner said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
In my book after that performance Sititi gets to pick 8 or 6.
Do people agree it was mad to take him off.Savea is good enough to play 6,7 or 8.
Things aren't quite right in the loosies.No. Think it was the right call. Think he'd gassed himself. Wasn't prominent in that period just prior to subbing.
You can see why they picked him. Both sides of the ball.
Some of the subs are ordinary and have had years to prove themselves
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@booboo said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@stodders said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@nostrildamus he’s playing 7 for Auckland, so play him there. If Cane doesn’t go on EOYT, 7s should be DP, Segner and Savea to cover if needed.
Signer in front of Lakai?
Am not of the Canes Mafia, but I'd be leaning Lakai.
Have to try Lakai at some point. Segner might have more useful size against the bigger NH packs.
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@mariner4life said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
On the subs
What I think the huge benefit to south africa is, because they do them so early, to the merriment of traditionalists (lol their starters can't even play 60)
When the whips are cracking at the death, their players are well settled in to the rhythm of the game, where as ours, on at a more "traditional" time, are still finding their feet. It's proving an enormous advantage.
Rassie may be a giant fuck wit, but he's on to something in a big way there.
I don't know if it's a good comparison but it's a little bit like cricket where it is very difficult for a batsmen to come and and start hitting from ball one. He's much more likely to do well if he has a bit of time to get settled.
The Boks also make multiple changes at once with the same group of players coming on, so they don't lose their cohesion as those players know the gameplan and train specifically as a group of subs instead of them coming on one after the other or at random times.
Anyway, Razor was always going to be learning on the job given his inexperience at test level and he's been taught a few lessons by other international coaches so far, no more obvious than against Rassie and SA these past two weekends. He loves a good learning, I wonder what he has learnt from these two matches? Hopefully a lot.
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@Damo said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
I want to stick up for the ref. I thought he was really good. I couldn't find major fault in any decision. I thought he got the YCs exactly correct. He was good in the breakdown about not allowing tacklers to help jacklers get onto the ball. Where the tackler cleared the area he was consistent in penalising isolated players.
With the pace of the game at this level and the complexity of the situation, I don't think that is as good a game as you will ever see.
Also I did not like TJ making sarcastic comments in commentary about last week's ref. That sort of thing is churlish and unbecoming.
Yes the ref was not an issue
TJ's commentary was so unprofessional. Whining first and then occasionally pulling back when watching the replay
It's a wider issue too. I think too many fans are leaping to blaming external forces rather than looking at the coaches/players and the quality of the opposition. We have to earn success.. currently we aren't very good
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@nostrildamus said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@reprobate said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
First thing is, that was a SA team with major changes. They've beaten us twice with significantly different teams.
That game was a real step backwards for me, and I'm much more disappointed with that than the previous loss. Reason being we went back to box kicks (and even a defensive bomb FFS), and we couldn't contest. Meanwhile the Saffas put up contestable kicks, and we didn't protect our catchers anywhere near as well as they did. We were shit at that under Foster, and I'm really quite fucked off to see that we haven't improved in those areas at all.
Up front, not too bad. Scrum under pressure early. Cody Taylor was superb, even despite fucking up the last lineout - shoulda been subbed by then really. Lomax I thought was really good around the field, other than the card, which I thought should have been penalty only - and again he should have been subbed by then. He makes a lot of tackles, and has pretty sweet hands for a fatty. Williams holding his own which is enough for a young fella, he'll be an asset on the bench once de Groot is back. Did Ofa manage to play 10 minutes without getting penalised this week?
Tupou Vaai. Way to come right when we need you mate, best lock on the park for me.
Scott Barrett looked a bit better this week though still not quite full noise and that knock on was a fucking shocker.
Sititi was what I expected, got stuck in to his carries which was great, missed a bit on defence but played pretty well for a starting debut out of position in SA. Not good enough to be getting MOTM votes when Taylor, Vaai, Lomax, Cane all played the way they did though.
Savea, jeez I just don't know anymore.
Ratima was a huge upgrade on TJP, who was as expected shit when he came on. Experience does not equal composure.
McKenzie bit disappointing off the tee. He is still the guy who can shift the ball quick enough to get around the defence though.
Jordie a bit anonymous, Rieko underwhelming.
Telea pretty horrible, Reece too really - though TJ joining the maul deserves a mention for that Marx try.
The sky didn't fall with Jordan at fullback. Beauden added nothing.That ref is fucking hopeless, but he's no part of the reason for the loss. He was far better than last time we had him (Twickenham?) and a million times better than in whichever game it was at the WC where he made a fucking disgrace of himself.
Good point about Jordan. I was expecting some flashy injecting himself 15 move though - is that a powder dry coaching decision?
Solid is a good start, positionally he was fine and he picked off that cross-kick nicely. The tries will come, though not every game - that's the easy bit for him.
Shouldn't have kicked that ball ahead though, too much looking for a BB miracle play there, keep it in hand, look for support, put some value on possession. -
@reprobate said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
First thing is, that was a SA team with major changes. They've beaten us twice with significantly different teams.
That game was a real step backwards for me, and I'm much more disappointed with that than the previous loss. Reason being we went back to box kicks (and even a defensive bomb FFS), and we couldn't contest. Meanwhile the Saffas put up contestable kicks, and we didn't protect our catchers anywhere near as well as they did. We were shit at that under Foster, and I'm really quite fucked off to see that we haven't improved in those areas at all.
Up front, not too bad. Scrum under pressure early. Cody Taylor was superb, even despite fucking up the last lineout - shoulda been subbed by then really. Lomax I thought was really good around the field, other than the card, which I thought should have been penalty only - and again he should have been subbed by then. He makes a lot of tackles, and has pretty sweet hands for a fatty. Williams holding his own which is enough for a young fella, he'll be an asset on the bench once de Groot is back. Did Ofa manage to play 10 minutes without getting penalised this week?
Tupou Vaai. Way to come right when we need you mate, best lock on the park for me.
Scott Barrett looked a bit better this week though still not quite full noise and that knock on was a fucking shocker.
Sititi was what I expected, got stuck in to his carries which was great, missed a bit on defence but played pretty well for a starting debut out of position in SA. Not good enough to be getting MOTM votes when Taylor, Vaai, Lomax, Cane all played the way they did though.
Savea, jeez I just don't know anymore.
Ratima was a huge upgrade on TJP, who was as expected shit when he came on. Experience does not equal composure.
McKenzie bit disappointing off the tee. He is still the guy who can shift the ball quick enough to get around the defence though.
Jordie a bit anonymous, Rieko underwhelming.
Telea pretty horrible, Reece too really - though TJ joining the maul deserves a mention for that Marx try.
The sky didn't fall with Jordan at fullback. Beauden added nothing.That ref is fucking hopeless, but he's no part of the reason for the loss. He was far better than last time we had him (Twickenham?) and a million times better than in whichever game it was at the WC where he made a fucking disgrace of himself.
Agree with most of that.
And yes, that ref is a fucking gimp. He is awful. But it wasnt his fault today.
Still seen some stuff today where I just shook my head (at the sport/laws) and the pedantry.
They influence the flow of a game way too much.
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Fozzie never lost a Rugby Championship
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Think we've held on to some players way too long. Ardie, BB, TJ, Ofa their time has come and gone. Who mentioned Lakai, might be time to give him Love and Procter a try. Want to say something positive but I'm struggling here. Some of the decision making and handling skills were truly awful. I expected better. Need time to regroup and lick our wounds.
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I think I heard somewhere next time we play South Africa is at eden park ?
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First half:
Carley does a good job setting the tone by penalising Williams for pissing about at the ruckk.
Ensuing scrum Lomax sets up too high and from the start Ox Nche has him twisted, gets further under him, drives him up and the All Blacks scrum goes backwards.
Tele’a with a loose carry and loses it too easily in a collision with South African Jesus.
Nice kick on a tight angle by Jordie narrowly misses a 50-22. South Africa with a lineout just outside their 22. Vaa'i knocks it back on AB side but it rolls into touch.
All Black pattern appears to have the shortest man on the team covering cross kicks as a second fullback. Twice now McKenzie has been outjumped.
All Blacks with a scrum, Ardie runs off the back to set up a ruck five metres short of halfway and the very next phase McKenzie kicks a contestable for Reece that he doesn't secure.
South Africa kick long and Tele'a fumbles it into touch back up the field where the scrum was. Black secures the lineout from South African overthrow and a series of excellent runs, direct and then sweeping across the field gets the All Blacks to within a few metres of the Springbok line. If this is the All Black attack Leon didn't want, it's good he's gone.
South African, could be Jasper Wiese, gets a turnover, is on his back turtle like exposed and Ratima is more interested in looking at Carley rather than doing anything about it. Hope this isn't the benefit of having the more experienced TJP in the squad mentoring the young lad.
Reece is much slower than Kolbe.
Jordan shows McKenzie how to jump and sets off down the wing, kicks ahead and falls over South African Jesus. de Allende cleans up by pushing it over the sideline. From the lineout Savea puts Codie into a gap and Codie does his best Cullen impersonation. Ratima in support is tackled early by Wiese and Carley awards New Zealand a penalty and Wiese a yellow card. Should've been a penalty try. New Zealand take three points.
Reece chases the exit kick and decides his best input is to clatter into le Roux without ever making an attempt to regather the ball. Receives a deserved yellow card.
South Africa kick to the line and do a tricky move sweeping back to the blindside. Scott Barrett makes his first appearance that I've noticed by winning a turnover penalty. Jordie rewards his brother's effort by making a grand total of 15m with his kick.
Aumua comes on for Taylor who looks to be off for a HIA. This is a loss because Codie has been excellent thus far. With the change in hooker South Africa win the lineout and Kolbe waltzes through some disorganised defence, ineffective tackles and with only the dependable Jordan in defence to beat, Sam Cane again saves the day with a superman tackle from behind 15m out. South Africa thankfully fumble the ball and it's a scrum.
Lineout and Mbonambi predictably needs a rest.
Ardie gives away a stupid penalty, South Africa opt to go for a lineout five metres out and NZ engage early. Carley doesn't notice and a phase or two later Cane comes up with a turnover in front of the posts.
27th minute and we have a scrum. Lomax sets much better and Ox Nche can't get lower without eating grass, while Williams turns Malherbe 90°. South African scrum goes backwards but they get the ball out. Two rucks later Aumua forces a knock on and Codie comes back onto the field.
Penalty for not rolling away quickly enough at a ruck and McKenzie kicks another. This time from the restart exit, Reece, lesson learned, decides to let le Roux land with the ball and then hit him. le Roux flings it back inside before he gets bundled out and South Africa knock on. Bit of a kicking duel, le Roux gets outjumped by McKenzie and Jordan aimlessly pumps it down the middle to Pollard who runs it back. Ardie is an assistant tackler according to Carley and gets penalised for not releasing.
Wiese runs down the blindside of a scrum, Sititi misses and Ardie makes a good covering tackle. Ratima goes straight over the ball and wins a clear turnover penalty. Messy lineout and Ratima kicks from the base of a ruck. Pollard sees space behind Reece who is covering Kriel and Kolbe. Ioane comes flying across to secure the ball.
Sititi finally gets his hands on the ball and makes a good run. Tele'a ignores players out to his left and play breaks down. A missed no look pop pass out the back from Sititi, McKenzie gathers, hesitates and throws a ball behind Ioane who knocks on trying to catch it. Another promising attack falls apart because of timing and accuracy.
Williams tackles/ impedes Ox Nche without the ball leaving Codie free to get over Mbonambi and win a turnover. Ox should've been an option on the inside or the cleaner at the tackle. Not sure why Carley didn't give a penalty there, possibly because Nche stayed on his feet and was late?
Hot on attack Pollard secures a turnover. Carley ignores he's offside and the ball is still within the ruck. But he gets dumped into touch by Ardie and Jordan. NZ with a lineout 10m out. Sititi takes the lineout, backs up with some good carries, South Africa predictably infringe at the ruck and the All Blacks kick the penalty to go into halftime 3 - 9 up.
So after a false start the All Blacks scrum is gaining ascendancy . Lomax carrying well. Sititi is growing into the game nicely. Cane is making tackles and cleaning up the failings of others. Ardie is giving away penalties but trying. Jordie won't give the ball to Ioane while Vaa'i is the best lock on the park. Codie is having a storming game. Jordan is practically invisible and both wings are a clear step down from last week. McKenzie is having no positive effect on the game at all.
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Lots to like about the All Blacks game.
But we don’t know how to win, and we are making mistakes at key moments which are killing us. Fucking frustrating.
Loving seeing our backs running in space again, I feel like it’s been a while since we’ve consistently seen that.
That card on Lomax was garbage.
Thought they had the rub of the green with the ref at the rucks again. We were penalised a couple of times for going off our feet, yet they were allowed to turn it over while off their feet a couple of times.
Small margins in games like this and we weren’t accurate enough.
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@BerniesCorner said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
In my book after that performance Sititi gets to pick 8 or 6.
Do people agree it was mad to take him off.Savea is good enough to play 6,7 or 8.
Things aren't quite right in the loosies.Back three isn't right. Loosies not right.
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@Yeahtheboys said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Fozzie never lost a Rugby Championship
And there were go, you must be happy
