Springboks vs All Blacks I
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@Jet thing is, he is calling what he sees, or at least his interpretation of what he sees in terms of the laws.
So there are 2 parts to that issue, one, his referee coaching, reviews and feedback, but more importantly, that refs can see the same thing but call it differently, meaning the problem is more than just them.
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@Jet said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
He is abysmal. I was more angry about some of the ruck calls than the Mbonambi try.
The reason TJ asked was because the SA rolled over the ball on the wrong side of the ruck. Penalty all day, and just ignored ... it was wild
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@taniwharugby said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@Jet thing is, he is calling what he sees, or at least his interpretation of what he sees in terms of the laws.
So there are 2 parts to that issue, one, his referee coaching, reviews and feedback, but more importantly, that refs can see the same thing but call it differently, meaning the problem is more than just them.
Its no good enough anymore.
They need to be held accountable.
They are seeing things that dont happen.
Like Barnes and Ardie in the RWC final "no release".
Cuts to big screen showing Ardie clearly releasing and Barnes hand waving it away with an excuse.
What should have been 3 points to us ends up being 3 points to them and we lost the RWC by 2 points.
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@Jet said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@antipodean said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@canefan said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@No-Quarter said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@nzzp yeah that is absolutely appalling refereeing, he clearly isn't up to it if he can't control his emotions in that situation. That plus the knock on try should see him stood down for a period of time, that's just nowhere near good enough.
Two best teams in the world and they schedule that mong. The game deserved better
Nothing will come of it. Wayne Barnes got a career after an appalling display of ineptitude. We were made to suffer as the pretence of "respecting the referee" kept getting thrown in our faces every time we were subjected to howlers. The only amateur hangover in a professional game.
He is abysmal. I was more angry about some of the ruck calls than the Mbonambi try.
Because for the ruck calls he was inventing stuff that didnt happen.
The Bongi try was an error of omission.
The ruck penalties were pure guesswork/dishonesty.
Look at Brace in the last video there. Just disgusting dishonesty.
SA query that the Argentinians are offside from the quick tap. Brace says "they were back 10" confidently.
Not once did he look at the Pumas. And he told a blatant lie.
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@Dan54 said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
Has anyone considered the possiblity we not fit enough to play the style we attempting?
We keep getting run down at end of tests.Nope. Our bench is not good enough. And maybe they aren't good enough to carry through with our game plan. Or maybe our close out game plan is flawed. But not lack of fitness, more like lack of control
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@Jet said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
Ryan was asked if he was happy with the refs performance.
"It was a big test for Andrew Brace, Im sure he learned a few things, as did we".
Slightly less subtle than the usual euphemisms we get.
Whenever you see a coach (in this case Razor) say "discipline let us down", or mention "ref's interpretations", just read " that fluffybunny with the whistle didn't have a fucking clue".
Sadly they aren't allowed to say that, so I will.
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@canefan said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@Dan54 said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
Has anyone considered the possiblity we not fit enough to play the style we attempting?
We keep getting run down at end of tests.Nope. Our bench is not good enough. And maybe they aren't good enough to carry through with our game plan. Or maybe our close out game plan is flawed. But not lack of fitness, more like lack of control
Yep I get your point, but you hit it on head with lack of control.
I often think that comes from being tired and brain not working as quickly?I do agree an inexperienced bench is a problem we have to live with.
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@Dan54 said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@canefan said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@Dan54 said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
Has anyone considered the possiblity we not fit enough to play the style we attempting?
We keep getting run down at end of tests.Nope. Our bench is not good enough. And maybe they aren't good enough to carry through with our game plan. Or maybe our close out game plan is flawed. But not lack of fitness, more like lack of control
Yep I get your point, but you hit it on head with lack of control.
I often think that comes from being tired and brain not working as quickly?I do agree an inexperienced bench is a problem we have to live with.
We fell away in the last 20, went the subs came on. Our game plan went to poo as well,but maybe the starters just hid the mistakes we made better than the subs.and SAs bench is better than ours
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@Dan54 I see your point, I don't think it is purely a fitness thing though, at the end of a test both teams are tiring.
I can't remember who it was, possibly Enoka, but he was talking about the McCaw era ABs training where they would exhaust themselves physically, and then practice their skills and decision making when the legs are giving out and the lungs are burning. It's one thing practicing this stuff when you are fresh at training, but at the 70 minute mark of a test against SA where you are dealing with an onslaught and an unsympathetic ref, all of that training goes out the window. That is such a key area for us right now, we used to excel at it and put teams away in the final 10 (even after playing poorly for the first 70), but the current crop under Razor are crumbling when the heat goes on at the end.
Thankfully the journalists have done some of the work for Razor by pointing out our weakness closing games this year so he can actually focus on it instead of being seemingly oblivious to it.
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@No-Quarter Enoka moved on after the RWC didnt he? who do we have in his place now?
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@No-Quarter Yep mate, not at same level, but when I was coaching, we used to get kickers etc to practice their goalkicking at end of training when they were a little but more tired.
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I can't believe it, the breakdown finally provides some actual data and some good points. Stopped clocks and all that, but Goldie is right, there is no reason for us to carry a winger on the bench when we could load up with another loosie or lock. I guess the counter point is that our back-ups aren't good enough, but we could get fresh legs out there while we still have 1st 5 cover with Dmac and Barrett. Seems a strange call by the coaches.
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@Snowy said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@Jet said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
Ryan was asked if he was happy with the refs performance.
"It was a big test for Andrew Brace, Im sure he learned a few things, as did we".
Slightly less subtle than the usual euphemisms we get.
Whenever you see a coach (in this case Razor) say "discipline let us down", or mention "ref's interpretations", just read " that fluffybunny with the whistle didn't have a fucking clue".
Sadly they aren't allowed to say that, so I will.
I should add to that - people say things when they are hurting that they may later regret, so it is probably best that they aren't allowed to say what they like.
I for one would be better similarly gagged when angry / hurt.
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@taniwharugby said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@No-Quarter Enoka moved on after the RWC didnt he? who do we have in his place now?
"Ceri Evans, a consultant psychiatrist, takes the role of Head of Leadership and Mental Performance. The former All White brings plenty of high performance experience to the table, having been involved with the All Blacks since 2010 as well as Formula One and NBA teams.
Would have thought that it was more psychological role than psychiatric, but those lines are blurred from what I have read over the last couple of years.
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@gt12 said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
I can't believe it, the breakdown finally provides some actual data and some good points. Stopped clocks and all that, but Goldie is right, there is no reason for us to carry a winger on the bench when we could load up with another loosie or lock. I guess the counter point is that our back-ups aren't good enough, but we could get fresh legs out there while we still have 1st 5 cover with Dmac and Barrett. Seems a strange call by the coaches.
I couldn't believe that they took off Clarke, moved Rieko to accommodate ALB and kept the worst decision maker in Jordie on the field.
Surely you replace Jordie with ALB and keep the other two where they were?
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Have posters seen the series of feature articles by Jared Wright on the Planet Rugby website? With the poor offerings from the NZ Rugby press and AB regime this year it is great to see such a learned and passionate researcher of international rugby offering so many great insights to promote positive and educated thinking. It appears that he may even be a new poster to this forum, researching perspectives from a wide variety of fans in preparation for release of his articles.
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@ARHS said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
Have posters seen the series of feature articles by Jared Wright on the Planet Rugby website? With the poor offerings from the NZ Rugby press and AB regime this year it is great to see such a learned and passionate researcher of international rugby offering so many great insights to promote positive and educated thinking. It appears that he may even be a new poster to this forum, researching perspectives from a wide variety of fans in preparation for release of his articles.
The same 'learned and passionate researcher' that tries to argue that Jordie actually knocked on and Mbonambi merely applied pressure to the ball for a legitimate try?
Even a partisan crowd went silent - they know what they saw.
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@antipodean said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@ARHS said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
Have posters seen the series of feature articles by Jared Wright on the Planet Rugby website? With the poor offerings from the NZ Rugby press and AB regime this year it is great to see such a learned and passionate researcher of international rugby offering so many great insights to promote positive and educated thinking. It appears that he may even be a new poster to this forum, researching perspectives from a wide variety of fans in preparation for release of his articles.
The same 'learned and passionate researcher' that tries to argue that Jordie actually knocked on and Mbonambi merely applied pressure to the ball for a legitimate try?
Even a partisan crowd went silent - they know what they saw.
You're assuming that the partisan crowd is up on the flowchart of what happens in this situation. Jeff Wilson can tell you where to find that chart. For what its worth, the flowchart would mean the try would have been awarded.
Was the partisan crowd correct in baying for a red card when Sam Cane broke Kolisis face? I haven't looked back in the thread, but as one eyed as you are I'm sure i'll find somewhere where that you think it was play on. -
@antipodean said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@gt12 said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
I can't believe it, the breakdown finally provides some actual data and some good points. Stopped clocks and all that, but Goldie is right, there is no reason for us to carry a winger on the bench when we could load up with another loosie or lock. I guess the counter point is that our back-ups aren't good enough, but we could get fresh legs out there while we still have 1st 5 cover with Dmac and Barrett. Seems a strange call by the coaches.
I couldn't believe that they took off Clarke, moved Rieko to accommodate ALB and kept the worst decision maker in Jordie on the field.
Surely you replace Jordie with ALB and keep the other two where they were?
Clarke was hurt. He landed badly from a high ball take and then couldn't keep up with the ensuing play. I wouldn't be surprised if Clarke was ruled out this weekend.
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The fantasies of the deluded aside, one would have to make the case Jordie attempted a strip as opposed to attempting to hold the ball up. Mbonambi loses the ball in contact and doesn't even apply pressure to the ball he lost. His reaction confirms that.
Not that it's relevant, but breaking a cheekbone isn't a red card. It's an absorbing tackle.
