All Blacks 2024
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@kpkanz So you're effectively proving my point. Consulting and discussing is not the same as being told where and when to play players.
And now imagine the decreasing level to which it applies as you move down from AB XV, Māori ABs, Super Rugby and NPC...
Read the first point of the job requirement again before you die on this hill.
That doesn't mean what you think it means. EOD
fair play to @kpkanz , a corporate reading of that is 'do what you get told'. I'm with him on that one - 'betterment of NZ rugby' gets assessed by the senior person I reckon.
Disagree. The language, if deliberately chosen (and there's no reason to suggest it isn't), frames it as a consideration, not an obligation. Hence there's autonomy for the coaches.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2024:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2024:
@Bones Even more ironic that Narawa has been playing center the entirety of the NPC since being out of All Blacks camp (I'd say EXTREMELY likely at the request of Razor).
Would be hilarious if he usurps Rieko as starting center.
I think Narawa can be a future great All Black, reminds me a lot of Sivivatu, very high spatial awareness and game IQ. Game looks slow motion for him.
Just watched BOP vs Ta$man highlights there.
Narawa had some lovely touches at centre. Scored one from 50 meters, set up another from 60 meters, and set up another that was chalked off incorrectly with a lovely one handed offload.
Admittedly not test level, but he looked dangerous. He didnt look like a winger at centre.
He looked like a centre.
At NPC level ffs.
It's club 'plus' right now. Needs serious attention - NZR should have alarm bells going off big time in HQ. Our structures need a proper refresh. You're not going to get that with all external board members necessarily - honestly, the urgency should be off the charts right now.
Revenue and success follows a nosedive in quality
Been banging that drum for some time. A lot of people have the belief all's well in NZ rugby, we have world-class cattle to burn and all that's needed is a successful AB coach delivering results and we'll get some sort of virtuous circle.
Well, it isn't a circle it's a pyramid and the foundations need looking at.
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2024:
The ABs atm and their selections are doing my head in. It's a large case of try the same shit with the same players and expect different results. I agree with @darylmitchell, we need to stop giving players that have had plenty of chances to prove themselves time in the Black jersey. ALB and Ioane aren't cutting it for me in the centres, we need to give Proctor a run there.
I suppose you enjoy the ABs losing then?
Yeah, in my deluded state I keep thinking the reason we're not winning is some unproven bloke called Proctor who can unlock every defence, win every lineout, scrum, ruck and maul.
Yeah, because doing the same shit is really working for us aye. Maybe let's throw in guys that were actually showing form in Super rugby instead of the continued selection of players that don't get us results. If you want to keep getting mediocre results then by all means, keep picking the same players that simply don't perform on a consistent basis and at the level that we expect being AB fans.
Couple of points:
(1) ALB was arguably the form mid-fielder in SR
(2)Throwing new guys in on the basis of "what we're currently doing is shit" and hoping for a magic transformation may end up making things much worse.
We've thrown a new Head Coach in on SR form and after 6-7 Tests that hasn't transformed the team, has it?. We need to aim for steady improvement and give the new regime time to deliver that.
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@Victor-Meldrew BUT HURRICANES
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@kpkanz So you're effectively proving my point. Consulting and discussing is not the same as being told where and when to play players.
And now imagine the decreasing level to which it applies as you move down from AB XV, Māori ABs, Super Rugby and NPC...
Read the first point of the job requirement again before you die on this hill.
That doesn't mean what you think it means. EOD
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@kpkanz So you're effectively proving my point. Consulting and discussing is not the same as being told where and when to play players.
And now imagine the decreasing level to which it applies as you move down from AB XV, Māori ABs, Super Rugby and NPC...
Read the first point of the job requirement again before you die on this hill.
That doesn't mean what you think it means. EOD
fair play to @kpkanz , a corporate reading of that is 'do what you get told'. I'm with him on that one - 'betterment of NZ rugby' gets assessed by the senior person I reckon.
Disagree. The language, if deliberately chosen (and there's no reason to suggest it isn't), frames it as a consideration, not an obligation. Hence there's autonomy for the coaches.
Of course it only frames it as a consideration rather than what it actually is indirectly (an obligation). That's why it's called 'corporate speak'.
You think it won't come up in the contract renewal discussion that you didn't cooperate with your bosses (NZRU) biggest and sole cash cow (the All Blacks)??
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@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@kpkanz So you're effectively proving my point. Consulting and discussing is not the same as being told where and when to play players.
And now imagine the decreasing level to which it applies as you move down from AB XV, Māori ABs, Super Rugby and NPC...
Read the first point of the job requirement again before you die on this hill.
That doesn't mean what you think it means. EOD
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@kpkanz So you're effectively proving my point. Consulting and discussing is not the same as being told where and when to play players.
And now imagine the decreasing level to which it applies as you move down from AB XV, Māori ABs, Super Rugby and NPC...
Read the first point of the job requirement again before you die on this hill.
That doesn't mean what you think it means. EOD
fair play to @kpkanz , a corporate reading of that is 'do what you get told'. I'm with him on that one - 'betterment of NZ rugby' gets assessed by the senior person I reckon.
Disagree. The language, if deliberately chosen (and there's no reason to suggest it isn't), frames it as a consideration, not an obligation. Hence there's autonomy for the coaches.
Of course it only frames it as a consideration rather than what it actually is (an obligation). That's why it's called 'corporate speak'.
And you're free to ignore it @antipodean. But they rae free to not promote you or renew your contract.
To me, you'd need a bloody good reason to not do what you're told, despite the apparent autonomy.
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2024:
The ABs have not scored a point in the last 20 minutes of their last three games. They have not scored a try in the last 20 minutes of their last seven games. That's the thing to fix.
Does Razor know that stat?
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@kpkanz So you're effectively proving my point. Consulting and discussing is not the same as being told where and when to play players.
And now imagine the decreasing level to which it applies as you move down from AB XV, Māori ABs, Super Rugby and NPC...
Read the first point of the job requirement again before you die on this hill.
That doesn't mean what you think it means. EOD
fair play to @kpkanz , a corporate reading of that is 'do what you get told'. I'm with him on that one - 'betterment of NZ rugby' gets assessed by the senior person I reckon.
Disagree. The language, if deliberately chosen (and there's no reason to suggest it isn't), frames it as a consideration, not an obligation. Hence there's autonomy for the coaches.
Well I'd hope the AB Coach doesn't dictate to an NPC Coach. But I'd also hope they worked together really closely on developing key players and skills.
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2024:
The reason Narawa is playing centre isn't because Robertson demanded it.
From my perspective I just argued it's EXTREMELY likely that's the case.
-never played there before either npc or super
-is one of the form super players but in the outside back position that is stacked with depth
-just released from AB camp and now playing in a position that we have very little depth inThis isn't even including the stipulation that it's very likely any current All Blacks playing NPC would be doing so under certain conditions from All Black coaches (ie playing time and position).
(devils advocate you can argue unbeknownst to us that Narawa is actually on the outer after his short ABs stint and not in contention for an ABs spot and is therefore free reign..which I highly doubt).
But sure I guess if you just say Razor didn't ask for this then it must be true.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@kpkanz So you're effectively proving my point. Consulting and discussing is not the same as being told where and when to play players.
And now imagine the decreasing level to which it applies as you move down from AB XV, Māori ABs, Super Rugby and NPC...
Read the first point of the job requirement again before you die on this hill.
That doesn't mean what you think it means. EOD
fair play to @kpkanz , a corporate reading of that is 'do what you get told'. I'm with him on that one - 'betterment of NZ rugby' gets assessed by the senior person I reckon.
Disagree. The language, if deliberately chosen (and there's no reason to suggest it isn't), frames it as a consideration, not an obligation. Hence there's autonomy for the coaches.
Of course it only frames it as a consideration rather than what it actually is (an obligation). That's why it's called 'corporate speak'.
And you're free to ignore it @antipodean. But they rae free to not promote you or renew your contract.
To me, you'd need a bloody good reason to not do what you're told, despite the apparent autonomy.
This discussion is becoming ludicrous. Based on the assertion without a shred of evidence that Razor is telling BOP coach Richard Watt to play Narawa at centre, rather than Watt deciding centre is the best use of Narawa.
Hanlon's Razors suggests that if Razor really did want to see Narawa develop he'd have kept him in the All Black environment as a wing/ centre.
The implication that not acceding to every dictate means you don't get a contract renewal (made at provincial level, not NZR) is a rather dystopian view of the organisation. Especially one that the PUs apparently have governance control over...
The text remains clear; that while NZR's goals are important and should be factored into decisions, there remains room for independent judgment and flexibility. Otherwise it would state "adhere to the directives of NZ Rugby" rather than "work closely with NZ Rugby".
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@nzzp pretty sure NZR pays the salary of the ABs in the squad, whether they play or not.
Plus, I expect most coaches would jump at the chance for an AB to play anyway, few extra tickets, young players to rub shoulders, some sponsor stuff...
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A bit left field but I think there’s an opportunity to really bolster the ABs pack by considering a grab at Nelson Asofa Solomona. He is a school boy rugby union star, would absolutely be able to handle the SA and any other big men in international rugby with ease, has amazing go forward, would just need to keep him under control. I would also seriously consider making a play for Kalyn Ponga. These two players are currently unsettled and would be superstars in the game both having played Union. Just a left field suggestion but well worth consideration.
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@Boston-Boy said in All Blacks 2024:
A bit left field but I think there’s an opportunity to really bolster the ABs pack by considering a grab at Nelson Asofa Solomona. He is a school boy rugby union star, would absolutely be able to handle the SA and any other big men in international rugby with ease, has amazing go forward, would just need to keep him under control. I would also seriously consider making a play for Kalyn Ponga. These two players are currently unsettled and would be superstars in the game both having played Union. Just a left wing suggestion but well worth consideration.
As a storm and an allblacks supporter I’ve often thought of Nelson as one that got away , but I suspect it’s a bit late now.
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@kiwiinmelb he’s 28 and apparently the Storm want to move on his contract. I would definitely back him for 4 more years. A lot to gain, the Bomb squad would struggle to control him. He would provide a power upgrade the ABs would not have seen for years. Then there’s Ponga who would revolutionise the backline & both have had dreams of playing for the ABs.
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Maybe this year 2024 will be a repeat of 2004, 1st season of new coaching regime, SA win the RC/Tri Nations, All Blacks eventually pull it together and go through the northern tour dominant and undefeated.
Could very well happen except NH teams aren't rubbish like they were in the mid-2000's and Razor's assistant group of S.Hansen, Ryan, Holland, Ellison, doesn't hold a candle to Henry's with Hansen, Cron and Smith - the GOAT.
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@Boston-Boy said in All Blacks 2024:
@kiwiinmelb he’s 28 and apparently the Storm want to move on his contract. I would definitely back him for 4 more years. A lot to gain, the Bomb squad would struggle to control him. He would provide a power upgrade the ABs would not have seen for years. Then there’s Ponga who would revolutionise the backline & both have had dreams of playing for the ABs.
Usually storm move on forwards if it looks like they won’t be able to match offers and back their youngsters instead , so I guess it would depend on what his motives are , there will be big money offers. On the table from rival nrl clubs you would suspect .
If he wanted to try his hand at super rugby I wouldn’t be opposed to it .
