Springboks vs All Blacks I
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@nzzp said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@taniwharugby said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
Where was that game when Jimmy Cowan, rightly had a try scrubbed, but outside the scope of the TMO at the time.
South Africa!
'would you like to know about the forward pass'... when the TMO was limited to 'the act of scoring'
/sigh
Dagg.
George Clancy was ref.
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Read through the thread from the game comments onwards.
Had to chuckle at some of the comments about the ref - I was reminded of when the shoe was on the other foot a few years ago. Did Brace make some mistakes? Of course. No ref is ever perfect. Was it disproportionately against the AB's? No. Was Mbonambi's try incorrectly awarded - in my opinion, yes. Unlucky for the AB's. Maybe a game changer, maybe not. But such is sport. And before any AB fan starts posting about other calls they didn't like, rest assured there is a list of marginal calls against the Boks that can be trotted out too.But I really wanted to comment about the game in the clear light of day.
A proper Boks v AB test in my view.
Yes, both teams made some errors - who wouldn't with the amount of pressure the other team puts on you.
But it was thoroughly absorbing. I thought the scrums and lineouts were incredibly even. The AB's perhaps shading the lineouts - the Boks had trouble securing their own throws which is not something we are used to.
I thought the AB's kicked more than I'm used to, a mixture of some very good options to unlock the rush D, mixed with the occasional average execution. It was even in the loose too, maybe with the Boks shading it late in the game.
I thought with less than 11 minutes to go, being 10 points down the game was gone for the Boks. Glad they found a way.
My take on it all is that the difference between the sides is virtually zero. I look forward to another nailbiter next Saturday. -
@Bones said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@MiketheSnow said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@Bones said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@MiketheSnow said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@ACT-Crusader said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@MiketheSnow said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@canefan said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
I'll just leave these right here
He didn't even get it over the line FFS
Being very contrary but consider the complexity of the laws, did
Jordie knock the ball on in the tackle?
Did Mbonambi then ground the ball playing under SA advantage?In theory he may have, and let’s say he did, the fact is that it’s never been reffed like that in a tackle. It has been reffed as a knock on from a strip/rip but that’s not what Jordie did.
Plenty of times it’s been called as a defensive knock on when a hand or head in the tackle has seen the ball squeezed out like a zit
No it doesn't Mike, you're over egging it. It's only called that way if it's a strip or a hand on the pass. Not if you hit someone and they drop it, that's just stupid.
We’ll agree to disagree
Because I’ve seen it with my own eyes and heard the explanation from the ref on his mic
I'll agree if you can cite a couple of examples.
Will try to find something on YouTube
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@Billy-Tell said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@Jet said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@W32 said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@Kiwidom said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@Jet I agree but it's not the kiwi way . We leave that stuff to rassie etc
Well, except for the kiwis calling for refs to be executed etc.
Fuck that man. Death threats is the new get out of jail card for incompetence. Politicians and refs the world over are leaning on that particular gambit every time they shit the bed.
I hope Andrew Brace steps on dog shit and his flight home is delayed but I don’t want him deceased.
Well actually, fuck it. Kill him.
Ok you go onto my ignore list. Keep a control of yourself man.
Ah lad I’m obviously joking.
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@Bones said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@canefan said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@No-Quarter said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@canefan said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@MiketheSnow said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@canefan said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
I'll just leave these right here
He didn't even get it over the line FFS
Being very contrary but consider the complexity of the laws, did
Jordie knock the ball on in the tackle?
Did Mbonambi then ground the ball playing under SA advantage?I would argue JB was trying to hold him up and he dropped the ball short. Surely the carrier has to accept some responsibility? It is frustrating that the TMO butts their head in routinely, and yet here they were strangely silent. But the ABs clearly didn't know either because even JB didn't protest the call
JB did protest, you can see him gesture with his hands, but after the TJP penalty it was rather subdued.
Time for Captain's challenges?
No fucking way. Improve the current system rather than descend to that steaming pile of horse manure..
It doesn't even need improvement, refs just need to be held to account when they ignore the most basic of processes/laws.
Since when has that ever happened? I'll wait
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@Billy-Tell said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@booboo said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@canefan said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
I thought the ref generally had a good game.
Well that makes you and Mrs Brace.
You can add me to the list as he generally has a good game. But the 5% of the time where he didn’t have a good game…
In saying that I’ve always maintained that the best sides find a way to win in spite of the ref. Notably mccaw’s sides over the years, 2007 excepted.
There were a number of calls and non-calls that baffled and also showed a lack of consistency for the players.
The young Bok 1st 5 barking at the TJ and not even a warning. Not defending TJP’s spray at all, but at least warn.
The maul officiating was terrible. He made the right call on the sideways and ‘that’s once’ call and then refused to call use it when it stopped twice after that. Then they were allowed to go again.
Then the standard Boks lying on the ruck and still playing with it. In the second Wallabies test they were penalised for it.
Then there’s the blatant stuff already mentioned.
Again on McCaw, 2009 Durban and Hamilton we got stitched up and we lost both of those. And what about the Barnes stitch up against the Aussies in 2015….
Albeit there weren’t many losses in McCaw’s captaincy but there were some and we didn’t respond to how (dire) things were going.
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@canefan said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@Bones said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@canefan said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@No-Quarter said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@canefan said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@MiketheSnow said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@canefan said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
I'll just leave these right here
He didn't even get it over the line FFS
Being very contrary but consider the complexity of the laws, did
Jordie knock the ball on in the tackle?
Did Mbonambi then ground the ball playing under SA advantage?I would argue JB was trying to hold him up and he dropped the ball short. Surely the carrier has to accept some responsibility? It is frustrating that the TMO butts their head in routinely, and yet here they were strangely silent. But the ABs clearly didn't know either because even JB didn't protest the call
JB did protest, you can see him gesture with his hands, but after the TJP penalty it was rather subdued.
Time for Captain's challenges?
No fucking way. Improve the current system rather than descend to that steaming pile of horse manure..
It doesn't even need improvement, refs just need to be held to account when they ignore the most basic of processes/laws.
Since when has that ever happened? I'll wait
Not publicly, but I assume there's some Star Chamber somewhere. Bloody hope so.
There was a Test against Argentina when Tana was captain. Utterly, utterly bizarre and baffling reffing and you ended up with both captains shrugging their shoulders at each other at one weird decision after another.
IIRC the Ref never did another Test.
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I’ve stayed out of the ref stuff until now but I think the confusing part for me is the different extremes they go to at times ,
In the wc final they go back a zillion phases to look at a slight knock on in the lead up to a try, and then here they don’t even look at a knock on in the act of scoring it.
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@kiwiinmelb said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
I’ve stayed out of the ref stuff until now but I think the confusing part for me is the different extremes they go to at times ,
In the wc final they go back a zillion phases to look at a slight knock on in the lead up to a try, and then here they don’t even look at a knock on in the act of scoring it.
Add to that the stupidity of this cat and mouse game of getting the conversion done before a review is called. It’s actually hilarious if it wasn’t so critical to the integrity of the processes.
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@Mattasaurus said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@Gunner said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
Just watched.
We were totally fucked in the rucks, partly by ourselves but mostly that fucking fluffybunny ref. It’s like there were different rules for both teams.
The officiating of the rucks in the 1st 15mins was very fucking different to what we got pinged for later in the game....
same old dodgy bull shit in SA.. who'd thought.
Maybe the TJP comment had a subconscious impact?
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@Mattasaurus said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@antipodean said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
Watching now because I got home a bit munted after the John I Dent final.
Ethan "both sides of the ball" Blackadder couldn't pass to an umarked winger five metres out.
DMac decides to hand back possession from inside our 22 with a useless chip kick to nobody.
Blind ref penalises Ardie one metre from our line for "no clear release" when there's a clear as fuck release which should've been a penalty for holding on.
Blind Irish TMO can't see Mbonambe clearly lose possession over the line.
Cross kick to Clarke and a turnover penalty because South Africans are allowed to place their hands on the ground first.
Cane puts a hard shoulder on South African Black Jesus who coughs up the ball in contact.
Beautiful run by Rieko down the blindside from a scrum, draw and pass to put Jordan into space. Ethan too slow to get there to clean out.
Outstanding attack from turnover ball. DMac and then Lomax dummy to beat rushing defenders and put Clarke in.
Blind clown awards South Africa a scrum penalty despite the tighthead clearly on his knees.
Turnover because "both sides of the ball" can't get there in time to clean out the defender. Has there been a slower loose forward?
And that's the first half. Score should be 3 - 12
Agree with a lot of what you say - but your Blackadder hatred does run deep.....
Ethan was one of my top 3 players today (as have a # of other Ferners going by the MOTM thread)..... cos as you say -- the work on both sides of the ball...
In answer to your slower loose fwds - not trolling... but Frizzel and Ioane were not speed merchants either.... and sure as shit didn't put the consistent work in that Blackadder is showing so far...
Akira has tremendous [EDIT] raw speed. Probably blunted by bulking up.
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@kiwiinmelb said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
I’ve stayed out of the ref stuff until now but I think the confusing part for me is the different extremes they go to at times ,
In the wc final they go back a zillion phases to look at a slight knock on in the lead up to a try, and then here they don’t even look at a knock on in the act of scoring it.
Exactly this.
What is the point of a TMO?
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@Billy-Webb No disrespect but you've downplayed the Mbonambi lost ball. The outcome was unacceptable and the officials should acknowledge they erred.
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@darylmitchell said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@mariner4life said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
Riiiiight
Firstly, super rugby is not test rugby
Secondly, we are picking Jordie for.no other reason than he is a big dumb lump to truck it up.
Riiiight,.
The AB's best back this morning who made De Allende and Kriel his play things?
- Jordie Barrett: Back to his best in another huge all-round display, where he racked up a game-high 91 metres (off a game-high 12 carries), notably thanks to his great 50-metre intercept try a minute into the second half. Had body on the line on both attack and defence (seven tackles without a miss) against vaunted Boks’ midfielders, put boot to ball nicely, did well to tap back long lineout play which led to Clarke’s second try, while was unlucky not to be rewarded for hit to dislodge ball on charging Mbonambi for hosts’ first try. 9
Don't take it personally. Some dipshits are just blinded by their hate.
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@BerniesCorner said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@Billy-Webb No disrespect but you've downplayed the Mbonambi lost ball. It's unacceptable and the officials should acknowledge they erred.
I would agree with that.
Very strange the TMO did not at least ask Brace to review his decision. -
@pakman said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@Mattasaurus said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@antipodean said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
Watching now because I got home a bit munted after the John I Dent final.
Ethan "both sides of the ball" Blackadder couldn't pass to an umarked winger five metres out.
DMac decides to hand back possession from inside our 22 with a useless chip kick to nobody.
Blind ref penalises Ardie one metre from our line for "no clear release" when there's a clear as fuck release which should've been a penalty for holding on.
Blind Irish TMO can't see Mbonambe clearly lose possession over the line.
Cross kick to Clarke and a turnover penalty because South Africans are allowed to place their hands on the ground first.
Cane puts a hard shoulder on South African Black Jesus who coughs up the ball in contact.
Beautiful run by Rieko down the blindside from a scrum, draw and pass to put Jordan into space. Ethan too slow to get there to clean out.
Outstanding attack from turnover ball. DMac and then Lomax dummy to beat rushing defenders and put Clarke in.
Blind clown awards South Africa a scrum penalty despite the tighthead clearly on his knees.
Turnover because "both sides of the ball" can't get there in time to clean out the defender. Has there been a slower loose forward?
And that's the first half. Score should be 3 - 12
Agree with a lot of what you say - but your Blackadder hatred does run deep.....
Ethan was one of my top 3 players today (as have a # of other Ferners going by the MOTM thread)..... cos as you say -- the work on both sides of the ball...
In answer to your slower loose fwds - not trolling... but Frizzel and Ioane were not speed merchants either.... and sure as shit didn't put the consistent work in that Blackadder is showing so far...
Akira has trendous raw speed. Probably blunted by bulking up.
That sounds slow to me…..
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@canefan said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@Bones said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@canefan said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@No-Quarter said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@canefan said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@MiketheSnow said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@canefan said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
I'll just leave these right here
He didn't even get it over the line FFS
Being very contrary but consider the complexity of the laws, did
Jordie knock the ball on in the tackle?
Did Mbonambi then ground the ball playing under SA advantage?I would argue JB was trying to hold him up and he dropped the ball short. Surely the carrier has to accept some responsibility? It is frustrating that the TMO butts their head in routinely, and yet here they were strangely silent. But the ABs clearly didn't know either because even JB didn't protest the call
JB did protest, you can see him gesture with his hands, but after the TJP penalty it was rather subdued.
Time for Captain's challenges?
No fucking way. Improve the current system rather than descend to that steaming pile of horse manure..
It doesn't even need improvement, refs just need to be held to account when they ignore the most basic of processes/laws.
Since when has that ever happened? I'll wait
Not publicly, but I assume there's some Star Chamber somewhere. Bloody hope so.
There was a Test against Argentina when Tana was captain. Utterly, utterly bizarre and baffling reffing and you ended up with both captains shrugging their shoulders at each other at one weird decision after another.
IIRC the Ref never did another Test.
Barnes did lots... That french crook too
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@Billy-Webb said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@BerniesCorner said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@Billy-Webb No disrespect but you've downplayed the Mbonambi lost ball. It's unacceptable and the officials should acknowledge they erred.
I would agree with that.
Very strange the TMO did not at least ask Brace to review his decision.Why not standardize TMO input on all tries scored
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@BerniesCorner said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@Billy-Webb said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@BerniesCorner said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@Billy-Webb No disrespect but you've downplayed the Mbonambi lost ball. It's unacceptable and the officials should acknowledge they erred.
I would agree with that.
Very strange the TMO did not at least ask Brace to review his decision.Why not standardize TMO input on all tries scored
I don't know about that. I seriously dislike too much TMO involvement.
But where it is clear that there is doubt in the act of scoring, then this is when the TMO should step in.
Brace could then review the footage with the benefit of better angles.
