All Blacks 2024
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@Jet said in All Blacks 2024:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2024:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2024:
@Jet I'd feel more comfortable with him at fullback than Jordan and the whole point of him being there is for his utility "value".
Didnt Havili score against SA on debut at Fullback?
do you think scoring a try makes him a good fullback?
I just don't think it's relevant. George Bridge scored the most tries in Super one year and his highlights reel was running in with no defenders in sight. It's a terrible metric, but one that lazy journalists and northern hemisphere have always leaned into. Now creating tries is different ... Will Jordan got plaudits last week, but the pass from TJP was insanely good - incredibly hard to defend and put his man in space. THat was the magic.
Read my earlier post, literally 2 fucking posts above yours. Im saying Havili shouldn't even be in the squad.
I merely asked the question whether Havili scored a try on debut in SA from fullback.
I was just asking a question to pass the time on a quiet Thursday.
Why does everyone treat every post like a fucking thesis.
It was against Argentina and he was playing 12. So I was completely wrong.
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@Jet said in All Blacks 2024:
Read my earlier post, literally 2 fucking posts above yours. Im saying Havili shouldn't even be in the squad.
I merely asked the question whether Havili scored a try on debut in SA from fullback.
I agree with the first part.
That's why I was confused about your question 'Didnt Havili score against SA on debut at Fullback?'. It's often a precursor to 'hurr durr try score = awesome pick 'em'.
/shrugs.
My stance on DH has been set out here. I thought he was great at 12 against lower tier teams, but went missing against good sides. His performances were a key reason for people (including me) thinking JB woudl be a better, more physical 12. JB has shown it at times, but struggled to physically impose himself at times ... which for a bloke with his frame is kind of weird.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2024:
Read my earlier post, literally 2 fucking posts above yours. Im saying Havili shouldn't even be in the squad.
I merely asked the question whether Havili scored a try on debut in SA from fullback.
I agree with the first part.
That's why I was confused about your question 'Didnt Havili score against SA on debut at Fullback?'. It's often a precursor to 'hurr durr try score = awesome pick 'em'.
/shrugs.
My stance on DH has been set out here. I thought he was great at 12 against lower tier teams, but went missing against good sides. His performances were a key reason for people (including me) thinking JB woudl be a better, more physical 12. JB has shown it at times, but struggled to physically impose himself at times ... which for a bloke with his frame is kind of weird.
Agree with all of that.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2024:
Read my earlier post, literally 2 fucking posts above yours. Im saying Havili shouldn't even be in the squad.
I merely asked the question whether Havili scored a try on debut in SA from fullback.
I agree with the first part.
That's why I was confused about your question 'Didnt Havili score against SA on debut at Fullback?'. It's often a precursor to 'hurr durr try score = awesome pick 'em'.
/shrugs.
My stance on DH has been set out here. I thought he was great at 12 against lower tier teams, but went missing against good sides. His performances were a key reason for people (including me) thinking JB woudl be a better, more physical 12. JB has shown it at times, but struggled to physically impose himself at times ... which for a bloke with his frame is kind of weird.
The irony is that while David Havili didn't score a try against the Boks, he did set up the winning try with a brilliant fend, some great footwork and a nice flick pass... All the stuff that IS important.
Easy to forget that Havili was one of the form outside backs in NZ for a few years before he was effectively forced to move to the midfield. If he was in the same sort of form now as then and playing his rugby at 15, he'd be a great option at the back.
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I'm not a massive Havili fan, and would probably lean towards the position of there being better squad options than him at the moment.
That said, it's hard to argue against his recent usage in the AB's being anything other than totally negligent from the coaches. If you're going to pick the guy, at least have some semblance of a game plan that utilises his skillset - watching them have him cart the ball straight into first phase traffic at 12 was just painful to watch and I really felt for the guy that they kept asking him to do it.
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@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2024:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2024:
Read my earlier post, literally 2 fucking posts above yours. Im saying Havili shouldn't even be in the squad.
I merely asked the question whether Havili scored a try on debut in SA from fullback.
I agree with the first part.
That's why I was confused about your question 'Didnt Havili score against SA on debut at Fullback?'. It's often a precursor to 'hurr durr try score = awesome pick 'em'.
/shrugs.
My stance on DH has been set out here. I thought he was great at 12 against lower tier teams, but went missing against good sides. His performances were a key reason for people (including me) thinking JB woudl be a better, more physical 12. JB has shown it at times, but struggled to physically impose himself at times ... which for a bloke with his frame is kind of weird.
The irony is that while David Havili didn't score a try against the Boks, he did set up the winning try with a brilliant fend, some great footwork and a nice flick pass... All the stuff that IS important.
Easy to forget that Havili was one of the form outside backs in NZ for a few years before he was effectively forced to move to the midfield. If he was in the same sort of form now as then and playing his rugby at 15, he'd be a great option at the back.
And he did come back from a very serious illness so fair play to him on that count.
Always liked him as a player, but he is another one of our recent backs who is a yard too slow and/or not quite physical enough.
Your ALB's, your George Bridges, your Havilis of the world.
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@voodoo said in All Blacks 2024:
I'm not a massive Havili fan, and would probably lean towards the position of there being better squad options than him at the moment.
That said, it's hard to argue against his recent usage in the AB's being anything other than totally negligent from the coaches. If you're going to pick the guy, at least have some semblance of a game plan that utilises his skillset - watching them have him cart the ball straight into first phase traffic at 12 was just painful to watch and I really felt for the guy that they kept asking him to do it.
I was in Dublin watching him against Ireland a few years back and it was tragic to watch. They ate him without salt.
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@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2024:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2024:
Read my earlier post, literally 2 fucking posts above yours. Im saying Havili shouldn't even be in the squad.
I merely asked the question whether Havili scored a try on debut in SA from fullback.
I agree with the first part.
That's why I was confused about your question 'Didnt Havili score against SA on debut at Fullback?'. It's often a precursor to 'hurr durr try score = awesome pick 'em'.
/shrugs.
My stance on DH has been set out here. I thought he was great at 12 against lower tier teams, but went missing against good sides. His performances were a key reason for people (including me) thinking JB woudl be a better, more physical 12. JB has shown it at times, but struggled to physically impose himself at times ... which for a bloke with his frame is kind of weird.
The irony is that while David Havili didn't score a try against the Boks, he did set up the winning try with a brilliant fend, some great footwork and a nice flick pass... All the stuff that IS important.
Easy to forget that Havili was one of the form outside backs in NZ for a few years before he was effectively forced to move to the midfield. If he was in the same sort of form now as then and playing his rugby at 15, he'd be a great option at the back.
One thing that sickened me about that game was at 10 mins Garces gives a penalty for accidental offside to the Allbacks. He was the touch judge liaising with Romain Poite in the "we have a deal" non call against the Lions in the 3rd test a few weeks earlier. Disgusting inconsistency.
Mad to think DMAC has been in and around the squad since then too...thats 7 bloody years ago.
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2024:
even Stevenson
given our fullback options i am astounded how quickly SS has just been forgotten about. Definitely not his best year, and i wouldn't have selected him. But you look at the guys we are picking now, can you really say with a straight face they are more complete than him? Definite defensive issues, but you can say exactly the same about all our 15s (you could have last year as well to be honest).
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@Jet said in All Blacks 2024:
If Beauden Barrett tears his hamstring next week, who would the fern like to see at fullback in the interim?
And who do they think Razor will choose?
Seems to be a lot of dissenting voices on the forum regarding Will Jordans credentials.
I'd like to see Love and Jordan together. I think that would take the ABs attack to a new level.
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024:
@ARHS said in All Blacks 2024:
I would prefer Love at fullback to Jordan.
Both have defensive issues. Love's tackle success rate was ~67% in SR from a stat I saw.
Then again, he saved about 10 attacking raids during the season because he has the speed to cover from anywhere in the backfield. One example against the Crusaders springs to mind when Reece and Springer were almost certainly going to score from a kick chase and then Love came out of nowhere and cleaned it up.
Tackling is a work on for every fullback, Jordan even had issues there at the beginning of his career aswell so I'm sure Love will tighten that up as he moves forward.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024:
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2024:
even Stevenson
given our fullback options i am astounded how quickly SS has just been forgotten about. Definitely not his best year, and i wouldn't have selected him. But you look at the guys we are picking now, can you really say with a straight face they are more complete than him? Definite defensive issues, but you can say exactly the same about all our 15s (you could have last year as well to be honest).
I want to agree, but when it mattered this year for us, he was pretty fucking terrible. He just looked completely disinterested on defence at the pointy end of the season. I was really hoping that he would kick on this year but I think he regressed.
I think he would be lucky to start next year if one of the younger players kicks on - ENS looks our best bet at 15, and Narawa holds one wing. SS is 27 now and coming up to the dangerous years for an outside back.
Feels like a talent that just never quite got there.
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Stevenson has only himself to blame for lack of ABs opportunities. If you don’t even bother to pretend to defend / make tackles then it’s all your fault. It’s not talent with him, it’s mindset. He’s a good attacker but the opportunities are far more limited at international rugby, defence is a lot more important
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What I think we will see:
15 - Jordan
14 - Reece
11 - Ioane / Clark13 - Proctor
12 - Jordie10 - DMac
9 - TJP / Ratima21 - Ratima / TJP
22 - Beaudie
23 - Clark / IoaneFWIW - I think Beaudie is our best defensive fullback because he still has pace to cover ground and make a tackle.
Jordie is our best fullback under the high ball and Jordan is not far behind.
DMac would be the best fullback to get the wingers involved.
Beaudie, Jordan and DMac all very good at fullback from running in broken play.
Love looks a decent prospect. -
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:
do you think scoring a try makes him a good fullback?
I just don't think it's relevant. George Bridge scored the most tries in Super one year and his highlights reel was running in with no defenders in sight. It's a terrible metric, but one that lazy journalists and northern hemisphere have always leaned into
Indeed... but even worse - I've seen popping up on the Fern recently - "Player-A played South-Africa x times and the team won y% of those". WTF? If you're resorting to THAT metric, you've lost the argument. Go home, pick a new sport.
