All Blacks v Argentina II
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@reprobate said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Isn't the line of thought "he's not the fastest, not the most effective, but he tries his best" the epitome of the woke criticism the saffas were accusing us of above?
What I do know is that if Dalton was on the blindside of the scrum in front of our line, he wouldn't have been brushed off like he was Terry Wright like the son of Todd was.
What I know is that Dalton made 8 tackles to Ethan's 20.
Dalton is usually up in 15s, so that was unusually low for him. This is a good example of Blackadder stats looking great on paper, but how many were as effective as Dalton chopping down that centre?
He’s a busy but an ineffective player. When he needed to make the tackles as the enforcer six he was bumped off like a winger, one costing a try.
I hope they did count the one where he got rag dolled by the argie ball runner...
Well 19-8 would hardly change the facts, would it?
Dalton is usually a big tackler, that's true and the major strength of his game - but De Groot made more in that game.
The ineffective myth doesn't become true by a couple of people saying it lots of times. I'd say a flanker only making 8 tackles in a game in which we conceded 38 points is ineffective.Yeah, just trying to inject a little light humour into the situation. Clearly failing it for you...
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Because Ethan played 80 and Papali'i played 60 and a lot of the Pumas possession came in the last quarter.
The ABs still had 55% possession over the game which means less tackling but the Pumas had 80% possession in the last 10 minutes.
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@brodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Because Ethan played 80 and Papali'i played 60 and a lot of the Pumas possession came in the last quarter.
The ABs still had 55% possession over the game which means less tackling but the Pumas had 80% possession in the last 10 minutes.
I wonder what EBs quarter by quarter tackle numbers were?
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0.5 x 70 + 0.8 x 10 = 43 minutes of tackling for 20 tackles for EB.
0.5 x 60 = 30 minutes of tackling for 8 tackles for DP.
It's minor mitigation, but it's still not close.
I wouldn't have selected Blackadder initially, but I do think he's been the best of a poor bunch so far. I can admit that I was wrong, but others seem to want to find any negative they can and ignore the good with him, while ignoring the worse performance of others. It's got kinda weird. -
Not sure but Blackadder missed that tackle off the scrum near our line after the dodgy passing from our guys - which eventually led to a try.
Contrast to Papali'i who nailed two guys in a row off an earlier scrum.
Blackadder looks like a guy confused and off the pace at times in between doing some good things. He basically looks like a guy who's played bugger all rugby in recent years which of course - he is.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Isn't the line of thought "he's not the fastest, not the most effective, but he tries his best" the epitome of the woke criticism the saffas were accusing us of above?
What I do know is that if Dalton was on the blindside of the scrum in front of our line, he wouldn't have been brushed off like he was Terry Wright like the son of Todd was.
What I know is that Dalton made 8 tackles to Ethan's 20.
Dalton is usually up in 15s, so that was unusually low for him. This is a good example of Blackadder stats looking great on paper, but how many were as effective as Dalton chopping down that centre?
He’s a busy but an ineffective player. When he needed to make the tackles as the enforcer six he was bumped off like a winger, one costing a try.
I hope they did count the one where he got rag dolled by the argie ball runner...
Well 19-8 would hardly change the facts, would it?
Dalton is usually a big tackler, that's true and the major strength of his game - but De Groot made more in that game.
The ineffective myth doesn't become true by a couple of people saying it lots of times. I'd say a flanker only making 8 tackles in a game in which we conceded 38 points is ineffective.Yeah if Ryan favourite frizzle, 1 tackle 1 missed, is the bar, 8 is awesome for a abs flanker !
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@brodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Not sure but Blackadder missed that tackle off the scrum near our line.
Contrast to Papali'i who nailed two guys in a row off an earlier scrum.
Blackadder looks like a guy confused and off the pace at times in between doing some good things. He basically looks like a guy who's played bugger all rugby in recent years which of course - he is.
Just curious, that would add weight to the overall numbers
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@brodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Not sure but Blackadder missed that tackle off the scrum near our line after the dodgy passing from our guys - which eventually led to a try.
Contrast to Papali'i who nailed two guys in a row off an earlier scrum.
Blackadder looks like a guy confused and off the pace at times in between doing some good things. He basically looks like a guy who's played bugger all rugby in recent years which of course - he is.
The guy making 20 tackles is the one off the pace?
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@darylmitchell said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
I get the point, it doesn't seem a relevant criticism for Razor, he is after all the most successful coach in the history of NZ domestic rugby.
Maurice Trapp's Auckland won 95% of the games he coached them in. Fred Allen's record given the competitiveness of other sides is at least as good and Razor's already lost more tests than the Needle did as a coach.
Comparisons with 60 years ago are of course pointless but Razor and his supporters are learning very quickly that domestic success is only one indicator of future test coaching ability.
How he responds to this setback will quickly determine if he is First Class or Economy
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As I mentioned "at times".
Particularly arriving late at rucks at times but also in support. For example the Darry try - Taylor passes Blackadder halfway up the field in support then burns Blackadder off.
Blackadder seems to be going full pace but is just kind of lumbering along.
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Blackadder reminds me of an NBA player who puts up huge stats but isn't overly impactful in the overall game.
Tom Christie racking up a heap of tackles for the Crusaders is another similar.
That's not to say Blackadder is alone in this - busy but ineffective I think can summarise a lot of the ABs play in recent times.
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@brodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
As I mentioned "at times".
Particularly arriving late at rucks at times but also in support. For example the Darry try - Taylor passes Blackadder halfway up the field in support then burns Blackadder off.
Blackadder seems to be going full pace but is just kind of lumbering along.
I'd be interested to see the ruck stats, if anyone has them.
A one-off example of support isn't particularly meaningful. Nobody can go 80 minutes flat out, and I think his work rate is excellent, as supported by the tackle stats. I find those interesting because in general I've thought EB is the least tackler of the options (vs Cane/DP/LJ), but a far better support/link player. -
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Blackadder reminds me of an NBA player who puts up huge stats but isn't overly impactful in the overall game.
Tom Christie racking up a heap of tackles for the Crusaders is another similar.
That's not to say Blackadder is alone in this - busy but ineffective I think can summarise a lot of the ABs play in recent times.
I think the Christie comparison applies more to Cane and Dalton and LJ: lots of tackles, but that's about it.
One side of the ball, I think Hoskins calls it. -
Yeah don't agree. The Blues had the best defense in Super Rugby this year by some distance and Papali'i was their leading defender. He's an accurate effective defender.
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There's no doubt Ethan has a massive motor which is a huge benefit for loose forwards. I just get the feeling watching him that he'd be better off picking a few more of his moments and trying to make them really count.
And perhaps that McCaw level of knowing what the next play will be and picking that to have a game changing impact only comes with playing more.
