All Blacks v Argentina II
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@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
It's interesting that Ethan de Groot's place hasn't been questioned at all.
He's an excellent scrummager - there's no question about that - but he still offers very little around the field. He's not one of the 'new breed' of props and without any scrums during his time on the field (which is admittedly a rare occurrence), he offered little on the park.
Yep totally agree
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@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Best of a bad bunch on the day I suppose.
Except you brought that game up as evidence of his ineffectiveness and why he shouldn't be picked, only to find out he was actually one of the best performers that day.
@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
On the stats front, Blackadder made 20 tackles against Argentina and everyone still wants him gone. These players are not passing the eye test.
I mean again you're making a few subjective statements. ALB doesn't pass the eye test for YOU, but he does for me and for many others.
While the objective metrics such as defenders beaten and linebreaks backs up what I and others are seeing on the field.
@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
ALB, Beaudy, Perenara keep getting picked as the “safe pair of hands” types. Experience , game managers and all that nonsense
ALB isn't just the 'safe pair of hands' though is he. He is pretty much at the top of this years super rugby in regards to defenders beaten and linebreaks for the midfielders.
He's also ahead of Proctor in line breaks while equal on defenders beaten (even though ALB has less minutes and carries).
So he's actually extremely dynamic.
@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Proctor , Ratima and Jordan have the hot hands. The other 3 are yesterdays men.
I'm also not sure why you're grouping ALB with Beauden and Perenara who are both well past 30.
ALB is 29. Same age as Dmac. Only 4 years difference between him and Proctor and easily young enough to make the next world cup.
Besides all this I really like Proctor as well.
If we were actually picking our current best midfield it should be ALB/Proctor.Riekos been horribly out of form for a while and Jordie hasn't been that impressive either recently.
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@kpkanz said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Best of a bad bunch on the day I suppose.
Except you brought that game up as evidence of his ineffectiveness and why he shouldn't be picked, only to find out he was actually one of the best performers that day.
@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
On the stats front, Blackadder made 20 tackles against Argentina and everyone still wants him gone. These players are not passing the eye test.
I mean again you're making a few subjective statements. ALB doesn't pass the eye test for YOU, but he does for me and for many others.
While the objective metrics such as defenders beaten and linebreaks backs up what I and others are seeing on the field.
@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
ALB, Beaudy, Perenara keep getting picked as the “safe pair of hands” types. Experience , game managers and all that nonsense
ALB isn't just the 'safe pair of hands' though is he. He is pretty much at the top of this years super rugby in regards to defenders beaten and linebreaks for the midfielders.
He's also ahead of Proctor in line breaks while equal on defenders beaten (even though ALB has less minutes and carries).
So he's actually extremely dynamic.
@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Proctor , Ratima and Jordan have the hot hands. The other 3 are yesterdays men.
I'm also not sure why you're grouping ALB with Beauden and Perenara who are both well past 30.
ALB is 29. Same age as Dmac. Only 4 years difference between him and Proctor and easily young enough to make the next world cup.
Besides all this I really like Proctor as well.
If we were actually picking our current best midfield it should be ALB/Proctor.Riekos been horribly out of form for a while and Jordie hasn't been that impressive either recently.
Fair points.
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I gotta say ALB and Proctor looked like ABs but I don't know if the Fijian midfield was the right measure, the whole team hung back far more than England and Argentina.
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@DaGrubster said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Jason Ryan’s area of responsibility is underperforming right now. Big time.
He is the coach with the longest tenure and has the most international experience.
He also has not selected the best player in Super rugby this year, which is seemingly based on a personal vendetta.
He had a great start to his AB coaching career but he really needs to get his forwards delivering pronto.
Supposedly, Razor selects the loose forwards (that's my understanding of the process as describe in the media), so based on that, he doesn't get to hide behind anything if if our loosies are shit. in fact, it is likely the absolute only set of positions of the field where we get to evaluate him as a selector and coach with little other influence.
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@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
It's interesting that Ethan de Groot's place hasn't been questioned at all.
He's an excellent scrummager - there's no question about that - but he still offers very little around the field. He's not one of the 'new breed' of props and without any scrums during his time on the field (which is admittedly a rare occurrence), he offered little on the park.
Has to be there for Boks tests.
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@pakman said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
It's interesting that Ethan de Groot's place hasn't been questioned at all.
He's an excellent scrummager - there's no question about that - but he still offers very little around the field. He's not one of the 'new breed' of props and without any scrums during his time on the field (which is admittedly a rare occurrence), he offered little on the park.
Has to be there for Boks tests.
at the start of the game I could swear de Groot was putting some dominant tackles.
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One more issue, aside from everything discussed, is that most of the ABs, when it comes to rugby smarts and game management, are thick as pig shit. McKenzie, Savea, the two Barretts, Taylor, TJP… all our old heads are dumb, hot headed morons. I yearn for some level headed, smart, understate players who just know how to get the job done. They all need a bollocking. I mean our stand in captain crying on Instagram? Are we fkn joking
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@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
One more issue, aside from everything discussed, is that most of the ABs, when it comes to rugby smarts and game management, are thick as pig shit. McKenzie, Savea, the two Barretts, Taylor, TJP… all our old heads are dumb, hot headed morons. I yearn for some level headed, smart, understate players who just know how to get the job done. They all need a bollocking. I mean our stand in captain crying on Instagram? Are we fkn joking
Wokism finally nobbled the Allblacks
We were much better when we had seal clubbers, wife beaters and lads who love the grog in the team.
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Couple stats for De Groot
Ran 5 times for 1 meter total
Made 10 tackles, missed 0So defensively went well, ball in hand not so great.
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@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Frank said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Watched the Soctt Hansen interview.
I am not going to say - “Something is rotten in the state of Denmark” -yet, but he doesn't give me that good down to earth feeling like say, Vern Cotter did. Too slick, too corporate, and too cocky. Apparently, it's all abpit "opportunities".What happened to just saying we screwed up and we feel ashamed?
There's too many coaches in this team, two of which (MacDonald and Holland) have no record to stand on to lay claim to be in the set up in the first place. This is reflected in the disjointed game plan.
And since Razor loves his assistants - perhaps we hire a how to exit out of our own half coach.
Hansen is a top bloke and a very smart coach he master minded a lot of the plans to combat teams in the Crusaders title play off games.
I had a lot to with Scott at club level down to earth dude.It's not how smart or down to earth he is at Club or SRP level, it's how good he is at Test level. As an armchair expert I'll give him a pass as our D hasn't regressed and has improved in some areas and adapted to opponents.
Unlike our forwards where Robertson really needs to get a grip. All over the place consistency-wise and bugger-all improvement.
Bit early to judge him at test level.
But the big argument for picking Robertson et al was a need for fresh start and Test experience didn't matter - with Foster's Test record being held up as proof experience counted for nothing.
Now when Coach Jesus turns out (unsurprisingly) to have feet of clay, suddenly it's "too early to judge him".
He knows Ryan. He's the AB coach. He sorts it out pronto.
He has won 3 lost 1 too early to judge fuck all yet, some people may be left looking stupid if they judge the wrong way now.
I reserve my judgement until I see more I did afford Foster that as well.I think it’s fair to say wait until end of the year ,
This is a tough year though , my big concern is we have just dropped one of the most winnable games when you look at what’s coming .
But we are a fickle bunch , win this week , beat the Aussies and win one away against South Africa all will be right with the world again .
But I can see things getting very ugly if we get to the end of the year around the 50-50 mark .
The bok games and the nh games are looking very tough right now , we may go into those as underdogs .
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@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
But we are a fickle bunch , win this week , beat the Aussies and win one away against South Africa all will be right with the world again .
if we win one against SA I will be pleasantly surprised.
The issue is not the win/loss, but the way we're playing. We have not looked good, the gameplan looks disjointed and unclear. We'll probably beat up Australia, but right now I don't know if we're as good as the 3rd that WR rankings indicate.
Would we be favourites at neutral venues against SA, IReland, France or England?
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@Darren said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Couple stats for De Groot
Ran 5 times for 1 meter total
Made 10 tackles, missed 0So densively went well, ball in hand not so great.
5 times for 1 metre? Newell would klll for those stats, forward that is.
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@Darren said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Couple stats for De Groot
Ran 5 times for 1 meter total
Made 10 tackles, missed 0So defensively went well, ball in hand not so great.
Would like to know the context of those runs.
For example were they pick-and-goes tidying up shit ball?
Also, what about ruck arrivals? Effective clean outs? Lineout lifts?
Obviously completely ineffectual in the scrums though.
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@booboo said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Would like to know the context of those runs.
You're absolutely spot on.
Stats by themselves are largely meaningless. But we're at the point where our squad is pretty average, and so we're spruiking individuals, supporting our 'truth' with stats and picking teams that 'would be better'. Put bluntly, we're the new GAGR/Australian fan (sorry @NTA). Coupled with shitty provincial bias (arguably being led by our coach).
Wayne Smith used to only look at dominant tackles as a stat he cared about. There were 25 in the test. 15 were by Argentina. That's a stat we need to dominate (haha) if we don't want to ship 38 points again in a test match. Remember: a record number of points shipped at home. And we didn't even have a card to point to. We got smoked defensively.
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@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Winger said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Saveas time is done for me his work rate is poor now he floats in and out of the game
The Argies weren’t taking the hit at scrum time and Gardner was deep in their pockets at that point. One of the big problems was our captain let the Argies run riot with stoppages and fake injuries and needed to rark up Gardner to their BS.And that's my biggest probelm with Savea's captaincy, he's simply far too passive and accepts everything the ref says without challenging them, pushing back or getting in their ear.
In the RWC final for example when they were reviewing the disallowed try an astute captain would have known that they can't go back more than 2 phases and challenged them on it.
He's a warrior with a great heart, but a completly empty jersey as a captain.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Stats by themselves are largely meaningless. But we're at the point where our squad is pretty average, and so we're spruiking individuals, supporting our 'truth' with stats and picking teams that 'would be better'. Put bluntly, we're the new GAGR/Australian fan (sorry @NTA). Coupled with shitty provincial bias (arguably being led by our coach).
No need to apologise.
As you say, you've basically been Queenslanders for ages, with a better team.
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@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
It's interesting that Ethan de Groot's place hasn't been questioned at all.
He's an excellent scrummager - there's no question about that - but he still offers very little around the field. He's not one of the 'new breed' of props and without any scrums during his time on the field (which is admittedly a rare occurrence), he offered little on the park.
This is the major problem with our tight 5 - we either have technically proficent set piece players that are hopeless at carrying the ball, or good ball carrying players that are technically deficient in the set piece.
In our tight 5 on Saturday all good set piece players, useless at carrying the ball.
We then bring on our "impact bench" of guys who can carry the ball (excluding Newell who just does like for like) and our set piece goes to kak.
We seem to be stuck with a lot of one dimensional forwards atm.
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@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
One more issue, aside from everything discussed, is that most of the ABs, when it comes to rugby smarts and game management, are thick as pig shit. McKenzie, Savea, the two Barretts, Taylor, TJP… all our old heads are dumb, hot headed morons. I yearn for some level headed, smart, understate players who just know how to get the job done. They all need a bollocking. I mean our stand in captain crying on Instagram? Are we fkn joking
Wokism finally nobbled the Allblacks
We were much better when we had seal clubbers, wife beaters and lads who love the grog in the team.
Can we please fuck the political agenda crap off to the politics threads? 'Wokism', 'big dick energy', 'beta'... All you're contributing with that is telling the world that you like shit podcasts.
Same goes for all the pop psychology bullshit doing the rounds. It's a game of fucking rugby, and this is a rugby forum: how about analyse the rugby which you can see and make valid comments on, rather than making shit up about peoples' character.
