All Blacks vs Argentina I
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I not sure why Vai'i is getting stick, I genuinely thought he went ok.
I still suspect we got too many coaches , the team looks a little confused at times.
I still not panicing over next week, and still think (as last time Pumas bet us) we blew it. The foot was taken off pedal. Shouldn't happen but does sometimes.I will say I not keen on a coach (Ryan, who I a real fan of) coming out after oranges and saying that Reece was dumb on tv. That stuff is rammed down player's throat at team meetings I think.
But I agree with the post that we need a Cane type player, not doing flashy stuff, but making players feel it when they sneak down his channel!
Also for all the anfst over the loss, the Pumas played bloody well and deserve credit for the win. We are not so good that wins against good opposition playing well, shouldn't be taken as given!
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There’s a good 500-600 messages I need catch up on here in so I’m thinking I’ll flag that and drop my 2cents even though i have no doubt it’s already been said.
All blacks lacked an enforcer/big ball carrier BIG TIME. The closest thing we have to that is Finau, are we just going to give up on Finau after 2 tests against England? If so, what a joke. He’s finding his feet with the new coaching system just as much as anyone else and he deserves to be shown some more loyalty and belief there. A lot of people may not like it, but he’s the best 6 we have in the squad. The only true 6 too.
A small gripe with how returning players have been handled. We included Josh Lord and Will Jordan in the matchday 23, I can understand Lord because of the locking injuries but he has only played 1, maybe half of a NPC pre season game for Taranaki and it showed. The guy looked lost.
Will Jordan, he has only played half a NPC pre season game for Ta$man. The coaches said he is one of the only players who could return to rugby and be thrust straight back into the test arena, I beg to differ. There is a major play from the coaches there, one of confidence because they have coached the guy before but what sort of message is that sending to the rest of that team?
Taking off Dalton when we did was a huge mistake. All of a sudden we had no genuine 7 on the field in a close game and in test rugby, in my opinion if you don’t have a specialist 7 on the field you’re going to be in trouble. Terrible substitution management there. It was either Blackadder or Ardie who should have come off for Sititi.
Next week I won’t be surprised if we see the addition of Sam Cane to bring some leadership into the mix with Barrett still being out, it was clearly missed.
One of the worst AB’s performances I’ve seen in a long long time. Confident we will bounce back next week in Auckland. Let’s get behind the boys and hope the right squad balance is found.
Ratima needs to start.
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@Jet said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
@Jet said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
Finally managed to watch this.
The bullshit tmo intervention at 48 minutes reminded me why I sort of hated the RWC.
Pack has too many passengers. Vaai utterly absent, blackadder just too mediocre. TJP too slow, not enough pace in the backs. And Aumua having a throwing mare as he’s prone to.
Argentina were great, especially their pack and especially their back row.
We have terrible record in wgtn.
Up to you mr Robertson.
In order to beat the Boks this year we need to try and run them off their feet. We arent winning an arm wrestle with our current bunch.
Firstly Razor needs to bleat like fuck in the media and behind the scenes with officialdom about tactical injuries, boots slipping off at opportune moments, tactical HIA's, waterboys on the pitch etc.
He then needs to pick the likes of Jordan, Ratima, Love, Hotham, Sititi, Ioane, Proctor and Clarke and we need to run those fat cheating fucks off their feet.
Any penalty within 60m of their poles and Jordie should be having a shot.
Ratima or Hotham need to be sniping plenty to focus the attention of their backrow.
Id be bringing Clarke in off DMAC's shoulder on first phase to skittle a few bowling pins. Or least as a decoy. He KO'd two springboks last year, one of whom was Faf De Klerk.
90% agree. We won’t be able to run them off their feet. Not unless we get go forward like the 2nd test 2022.
Now that the dust has settled, the line has been drawn and I’m hoping the coaches have decided they’ll make like House MD and be total c@nts for the rest of this year at the minimum. This was one of my many complaints about Fozzy. All good being nice but you had Rassie, Steady Eddy, the whole of Ireland acting like absolute twats and the marching one over us. Some of the penalties and TMO interjections we are coping are beyond absurd.
Also, the ABs lost that more than the Pumas won. A loss none the less but two howlers by our own blokes and a half yard forward pass and that was a 21 point win.
Im still seething over the World Cup final. Barnes and co were a disgrace.
Yes and no. I’m still pissed too but it was the TMO more than Barnes I feel. Barnes really should have told him to feck off. SF’s YC was the most innocuous incident to be considered foul play. Having said that, that final scrum. If that was minute 1, that’s an AB’s penalty all day.
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@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
@Jet said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
@Jet said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
Finally managed to watch this.
The bullshit tmo intervention at 48 minutes reminded me why I sort of hated the RWC.
Pack has too many passengers. Vaai utterly absent, blackadder just too mediocre. TJP too slow, not enough pace in the backs. And Aumua having a throwing mare as he’s prone to.
Argentina were great, especially their pack and especially their back row.
We have terrible record in wgtn.
Up to you mr Robertson.
In order to beat the Boks this year we need to try and run them off their feet. We arent winning an arm wrestle with our current bunch.
Firstly Razor needs to bleat like fuck in the media and behind the scenes with officialdom about tactical injuries, boots slipping off at opportune moments, tactical HIA's, waterboys on the pitch etc.
He then needs to pick the likes of Jordan, Ratima, Love, Hotham, Sititi, Ioane, Proctor and Clarke and we need to run those fat cheating fucks off their feet.
Any penalty within 60m of their poles and Jordie should be having a shot.
Ratima or Hotham need to be sniping plenty to focus the attention of their backrow.
Id be bringing Clarke in off DMAC's shoulder on first phase to skittle a few bowling pins. Or least as a decoy. He KO'd two springboks last year, one of whom was Faf De Klerk.
90% agree. We won’t be able to run them off their feet. Not unless we get go forward like the 2nd test 2022.
Now that the dust has settled, the line has been drawn and I’m hoping the coaches have decided they’ll make like House MD and be total c@nts for the rest of this year at the minimum. This was one of my many complaints about Fozzy. All good being nice but you had Rassie, Steady Eddy, the whole of Ireland acting like absolute twats and the marching one over us. Some of the penalties and TMO interjections we are coping are beyond absurd.
Also, the ABs lost that more than the Pumas won. A loss none the less but two howlers by our own blokes and a half yard forward pass and that was a 21 point win.
Im still seething over the World Cup final. Barnes and co were a disgrace.
Yes and no. I’m still pissed too but it was the TMO more than Barnes I feel. Barnes really should have told him to feck off. SF’s YC was the most innocuous incident to be considered foul play. Having said that, that final scrum. If that was minute 1, that’s an AB’s penalty all day.
The final scrum. The Ardie penalty for not releasing that cost 3 points. The inconsistency in the Kolisi/Cane sanctions. Either they are both nothing, both yellow or both red.
The constant TMO intervention.
The Frizzell yellow for a heretofore unsanctioned offence. Never seen it given.
Etzebeth elbowing Sam Cane full force in the face right in front of Barnes.It was a horror show and one of the reasons Razor and friends need to start watching Alex Ferguson videos for inspiration in defending ones own interests. We are getting walked all over since Lions test 2 2017. SBW was sent, but Vunipola forearm smashed Barrett in the face two yards out side a ruck and didnt get red.
We are no angels granted but we have been turning the other cheek for about 7 years.
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@Jet said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
@Jet said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
@Jet said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
Finally managed to watch this.
The bullshit tmo intervention at 48 minutes reminded me why I sort of hated the RWC.
Pack has too many passengers. Vaai utterly absent, blackadder just too mediocre. TJP too slow, not enough pace in the backs. And Aumua having a throwing mare as he’s prone to.
Argentina were great, especially their pack and especially their back row.
We have terrible record in wgtn.
Up to you mr Robertson.
In order to beat the Boks this year we need to try and run them off their feet. We arent winning an arm wrestle with our current bunch.
Firstly Razor needs to bleat like fuck in the media and behind the scenes with officialdom about tactical injuries, boots slipping off at opportune moments, tactical HIA's, waterboys on the pitch etc.
He then needs to pick the likes of Jordan, Ratima, Love, Hotham, Sititi, Ioane, Proctor and Clarke and we need to run those fat cheating fucks off their feet.
Any penalty within 60m of their poles and Jordie should be having a shot.
Ratima or Hotham need to be sniping plenty to focus the attention of their backrow.
Id be bringing Clarke in off DMAC's shoulder on first phase to skittle a few bowling pins. Or least as a decoy. He KO'd two springboks last year, one of whom was Faf De Klerk.
90% agree. We won’t be able to run them off their feet. Not unless we get go forward like the 2nd test 2022.
Now that the dust has settled, the line has been drawn and I’m hoping the coaches have decided they’ll make like House MD and be total c@nts for the rest of this year at the minimum. This was one of my many complaints about Fozzy. All good being nice but you had Rassie, Steady Eddy, the whole of Ireland acting like absolute twats and the marching one over us. Some of the penalties and TMO interjections we are coping are beyond absurd.
Also, the ABs lost that more than the Pumas won. A loss none the less but two howlers by our own blokes and a half yard forward pass and that was a 21 point win.
Im still seething over the World Cup final. Barnes and co were a disgrace.
Yes and no. I’m still pissed too but it was the TMO more than Barnes I feel. Barnes really should have told him to feck off. SF’s YC was the most innocuous incident to be considered foul play. Having said that, that final scrum. If that was minute 1, that’s an AB’s penalty all day.
The final scrum. The Ardie penalty for not releasing that cost 3 points. The inconsistency in the Kolisi/Cane sanctions. Either they are both nothing, both yellow or both red.
The constant TMO intervention.
The Frizzell yellow for a heretofore unsanctioned offence. Never seen it given.
Etzebeth elbowing Sam Cane full force in the face right in front of Barnes.It was a horror show and one of the reasons Razor and friends need to start watching Alex Ferguson videos for inspiration in defending ones own interests. We are getting walked all over since Lions test 2 2017. SBW was sent, but Vunipola forearm smashed Barrett in the face two yards out side a ruck and didnt get red.
We are no angels granted but we have been turning the other cheek for about 7 years.
That's because we Kiwis are the morally superior nice guys of sport. We don't complain in the media and we don't sack underperforming coaches (Hi Mr Penny).
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
I not sure why Vai'i is getting stick, I genuinely thought he went ok
I'm with you Dan. Post after post about a lack of physicality, but he's the one player that actually hit guys. Thought the starting locks were one of the few positives.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
At blindside, though - Ryan has said he was very disappointed that Frizell was allowed to slip away. If he were available, I suspect he would have played 3/4 of these tests. But, he's gone to Japan so a change was enforced.
Finau pretty clearly struggled vs England, replacing him was probably a good idea.
And Jacobson played vs Fiji and was injured - so again an enforced change - had to be either to Blackadder or back to Finau.
So in other words they should have selected a squad with more than 1 genuine 6.
That way you aren't stuck with these hybrid loosies at 6 if don't want to select Finau every test......
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@Jet said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
@Jet said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
@Jet said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
Finally managed to watch this.
The bullshit tmo intervention at 48 minutes reminded me why I sort of hated the RWC.
Pack has too many passengers. Vaai utterly absent, blackadder just too mediocre. TJP too slow, not enough pace in the backs. And Aumua having a throwing mare as he’s prone to.
Argentina were great, especially their pack and especially their back row.
We have terrible record in wgtn.
Up to you mr Robertson.
In order to beat the Boks this year we need to try and run them off their feet. We arent winning an arm wrestle with our current bunch.
Firstly Razor needs to bleat like fuck in the media and behind the scenes with officialdom about tactical injuries, boots slipping off at opportune moments, tactical HIA's, waterboys on the pitch etc.
He then needs to pick the likes of Jordan, Ratima, Love, Hotham, Sititi, Ioane, Proctor and Clarke and we need to run those fat cheating fucks off their feet.
Any penalty within 60m of their poles and Jordie should be having a shot.
Ratima or Hotham need to be sniping plenty to focus the attention of their backrow.
Id be bringing Clarke in off DMAC's shoulder on first phase to skittle a few bowling pins. Or least as a decoy. He KO'd two springboks last year, one of whom was Faf De Klerk.
90% agree. We won’t be able to run them off their feet. Not unless we get go forward like the 2nd test 2022.
Now that the dust has settled, the line has been drawn and I’m hoping the coaches have decided they’ll make like House MD and be total c@nts for the rest of this year at the minimum. This was one of my many complaints about Fozzy. All good being nice but you had Rassie, Steady Eddy, the whole of Ireland acting like absolute twats and the marching one over us. Some of the penalties and TMO interjections we are coping are beyond absurd.
Also, the ABs lost that more than the Pumas won. A loss none the less but two howlers by our own blokes and a half yard forward pass and that was a 21 point win.
Im still seething over the World Cup final. Barnes and co were a disgrace.
Yes and no. I’m still pissed too but it was the TMO more than Barnes I feel. Barnes really should have told him to feck off. SF’s YC was the most innocuous incident to be considered foul play. Having said that, that final scrum. If that was minute 1, that’s an AB’s penalty all day.
The final scrum. The Ardie penalty for not releasing that cost 3 points. The inconsistency in the Kolisi/Cane sanctions. Either they are both nothing, both yellow or both red.
The constant TMO intervention.
The Frizzell yellow for a heretofore unsanctioned offence. Never seen it given.
Etzebeth elbowing Sam Cane full force in the face right in front of Barnes.It was a horror show and one of the reasons Razor and friends need to start watching Alex Ferguson videos for inspiration in defending ones own interests. We are getting walked all over since Lions test 2 2017. SBW was sent, but Vunipola forearm smashed Barrett in the face two yards out side a ruck and didnt get red.
We are no angels granted but we have been turning the other cheek for about 7 years.
Kitsoff at least got caught using his forearm twice. One where he smashed SF which caused him to fall over and concede the YC then again into EdG. Blood everywhere. Sad thing is, like last night, is that despite such BS, still should have won.
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@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
@Jet said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
@Jet said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
@Jet said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
Finally managed to watch this.
The bullshit tmo intervention at 48 minutes reminded me why I sort of hated the RWC.
Pack has too many passengers. Vaai utterly absent, blackadder just too mediocre. TJP too slow, not enough pace in the backs. And Aumua having a throwing mare as he’s prone to.
Argentina were great, especially their pack and especially their back row.
We have terrible record in wgtn.
Up to you mr Robertson.
In order to beat the Boks this year we need to try and run them off their feet. We arent winning an arm wrestle with our current bunch.
Firstly Razor needs to bleat like fuck in the media and behind the scenes with officialdom about tactical injuries, boots slipping off at opportune moments, tactical HIA's, waterboys on the pitch etc.
He then needs to pick the likes of Jordan, Ratima, Love, Hotham, Sititi, Ioane, Proctor and Clarke and we need to run those fat cheating fucks off their feet.
Any penalty within 60m of their poles and Jordie should be having a shot.
Ratima or Hotham need to be sniping plenty to focus the attention of their backrow.
Id be bringing Clarke in off DMAC's shoulder on first phase to skittle a few bowling pins. Or least as a decoy. He KO'd two springboks last year, one of whom was Faf De Klerk.
90% agree. We won’t be able to run them off their feet. Not unless we get go forward like the 2nd test 2022.
Now that the dust has settled, the line has been drawn and I’m hoping the coaches have decided they’ll make like House MD and be total c@nts for the rest of this year at the minimum. This was one of my many complaints about Fozzy. All good being nice but you had Rassie, Steady Eddy, the whole of Ireland acting like absolute twats and the marching one over us. Some of the penalties and TMO interjections we are coping are beyond absurd.
Also, the ABs lost that more than the Pumas won. A loss none the less but two howlers by our own blokes and a half yard forward pass and that was a 21 point win.
Im still seething over the World Cup final. Barnes and co were a disgrace.
Yes and no. I’m still pissed too but it was the TMO more than Barnes I feel. Barnes really should have told him to feck off. SF’s YC was the most innocuous incident to be considered foul play. Having said that, that final scrum. If that was minute 1, that’s an AB’s penalty all day.
The final scrum. The Ardie penalty for not releasing that cost 3 points. The inconsistency in the Kolisi/Cane sanctions. Either they are both nothing, both yellow or both red.
The constant TMO intervention.
The Frizzell yellow for a heretofore unsanctioned offence. Never seen it given.
Etzebeth elbowing Sam Cane full force in the face right in front of Barnes.It was a horror show and one of the reasons Razor and friends need to start watching Alex Ferguson videos for inspiration in defending ones own interests. We are getting walked all over since Lions test 2 2017. SBW was sent, but Vunipola forearm smashed Barrett in the face two yards out side a ruck and didnt get red.
We are no angels granted but we have been turning the other cheek for about 7 years.
That's because we Kiwis are the morally superior nice guys of sport. We don't complain in the media and we don't sack underperforming coaches (Hi Mr Penny).
I’ve been harping on about this for years. That loss in Chicago in late 2016 and Hansen’s flawed idea that SBW was the man at 12 despite committing 2 years to league and 7s was the start of it all.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
"The players didn't do what we coached"
Well you and your mates selected them and coached them...
im actually wondering if he has a point. i always wondering way fozzie wasn't reviewing and fixing issues that came up in previous games....maybe he was...and then come game time they just did what they wanted
Have we got too many big personalities? too many guys that think they know better? too many not smart enough to remember what has been coached? too many that play on vibe? too many that think they'll never get dropped so dont care?
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@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
It's an interesting comment that. If he's talking specific things, then I'd expect people to be dropped.
I do hope people get dropped, because our players look like they need to get less comfortable in a big hurry.💯. Can't say something like that and not drop someone. Otherwise it's just bullshit speak
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I think Ardie is likely in the gun most. As captain he bears most responsibility for decisions made on the field, and some of his own weren't great. Plan was probably to rotate him out for game 2 having won game 1 anyway.
TJP, who shouldn't be blocking Ratima's development and has not played well.
Jordie too maybe, he's been mediocre and all the other midfielders have had a rotation.
If Aumua hadn't shat the bed I'd say Taylor too.
I really hope they don't fuck with McKenzie. He's clearly the best we've got, and he's working into that crucial starting 10 role - don't mess with his confidence. If you want to send a message, drop some veterans. -
you're right...but the the powers that be dont have the nuts for wholesale change, they dont buy into the idea that young guys when given a shot can step up...and if they do they should be rewarded
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I kind of expected this tbh when you look at Razor's assistants. Did anyone look at Holland and McDonald and think to themselves this is a star studded team?
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@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
I kind of expected this tbh when you look at Razor's assistants. Did anyone look at Holland and McDonald and think to themselves this is a star studded team?
Even more concerning how their respective franchises improved out of sight after they left...
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Well a dog of a game really.
Some of the post match comments from the media have been plain silly - especially the talking about how we created oppertunites but didn't capitalise. Yeah there's a vain of truth there but FFS - shouldn't the record number of points ever conceded to Argentina be more the issue?
You are not going to win games against any tier 1 nation if you concede 38 points.
I must say it took me by surprise as I thought our defense had been fairly solid but my goodness, Argentina just looked dangerous everytime they had the ball, either in close our out wide. It was hard to pin down what was wrong with our defensive pattern as it appeared that everything was wrong with it.
Seeing Dmac standing one off the ruck as the pillar defender when the Argies were hammering our line for the go-ahead try really took the cake. A complete lack of urgency from our forwards to get around the corner and defend when it really mattered.
I'd love to see the missed tackle stats as I'm sure certain players really let themselves down here.
Our "strong" bench was hoplessly mismanged and in reality cost us the game. Instead of adding impact they added errors, subbing on players only made things worse. I feel the majority of the subs were put on too late. Savea at 8, Blackadder at 7 and Sititi at 6 to close out a game is amazing levels of stupidity - lets put on the most inexperienced, out of position and slow loose forward trio we can!!
A really dissapoiting loss, defensively weak and mentally weak when the pressure came on. We effectively gifted the ball to the Argies for the last 20 minutes and to give them credit they didn't need to be asked twice and easily closed out the match.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
I kind of expected this tbh when you look at Razor's assistants. Did anyone look at Holland and McDonald and think to themselves this is a star studded team?
Holland and McDonald?
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@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
I kind of expected this tbh when you look at Razor's assistants. Did anyone look at Holland and McDonald and think to themselves this is a star studded team?
I'm starting to think Razor is a bit like Eddie Jones as a head coach, in that he only works with subordinates who either think similarly to him or will tow the line, doesn't appear to be interested in strong personalities who may challenge him.
two years ago Schmidt couldn't work with Razor because of philosophical differences in their coaching approach, Brown was probably the same, hence he would rather coach with SA than the pinnacle for any NZ coach - the ABs.
