So, what HAS Michael Cheika actually done as a coach?
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<p>Stop being so sensible Mick. We're here to kick Cheika in the nuts, your sort of rationality is sorely misplaced.</p>
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<p>The England to Whitewash Australia thread before the series started is worth a reread for a good laugh. A rallying cry was "Look how far the team have come from McKenzie". They had two solid performances against NZ in his last year including a draw and last minute loss.</p>
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<p>A few also wax lyrical about his inspirational press conferences being integral to his wizardry. Now his press conferences resemble a sad puppy dog pouting that people are kicking him while he is down.</p>
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<p>The thing is the easiest time to coach is in your first year where you can shake up selection, tactics, captaincy etc, second easiest time is a world cup year when you have maximum buy in. Cheika had both at once. Now he has to build something over 4 years, this is a completely different gig than what he did in the 12 month sprint he did last year.</p>
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<p>Lastly twice in the past seven games Cheika has taken full blame for stuffing up the preparation - the Scottish QF and then last week. Either this is a tactic which will have diminishing returns or it's the truth in which case do you want someone who bottles it so regularly in high pressure fixtures.</p>
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<p>A large part of Cheika's undoing (along with Deans and McKensie) is that they have too much ego to hire a decent assistant panel. Steve Hansen I'm sure has had the odd poor week or unfocused week or pushed the wrong buttons - but he has a team around him that is going to be able to compensate for that and challenge him before he goes too far down the wrong path. Cheika has assembled an army of yes-men and rookies rather than a panel of equals.</p>
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<p>Make sure the referee's changing shed is locked this week that's all I can say.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="kiwiinmelb" data-cid="608969" data-time="1472118577"><p>
I cant believe im saying this ,<br><br>
But im a bit concerned for Australian rugby to be honest ,<br><br>
years ago when they were a powerhouse I wouldve thought I would be celebrating this ,<br><br>
but for the benefit of international rugby , im not so sure this is good thing if we keep flogging them</p></blockquote>
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I'm cool with it, it's like the neighbours dog that ran up and down your fence barking it's head off from 1998-2003 then its owner backed over it in the driveway and every time you leave for work you see the thing moping on its porch with a bucket around its neck to stop it licking its festering wounds. -
<p>I have a theory on oz rugby- back in the day rugby was a toffs sport in oz - players came from private schools were intelligent young men with flair. The ozzies lead the way in back play and innovation- we followed them and tried to counter them by size as we couldn't outwit them.</p>
<p>Along came pro rugby the uni boy has been push aside to bring in bigger athletes playing with no innovation and basically just copying our style without having the cattle to do it.</p>
<p>I think its a shame to see Aussie rugby like this we need them the rugby world needs them to be smart again- to play with brains - The Ellas- Campos, Farr-Jones etc</p> -
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<p>The thing is the easiest time to coach is in your first year where you can shake up selection, tactics, captaincy etc, second easiest time is a world cup year when you have maximum buy in. Cheika had both at once. Now he has to build something over 4 years, this is a completely different gig than what he did in the 12 month sprint he did last year.</p>
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<p>This applies equally to Eddie Jones. First year and RWC year is easy. However, the history with Eddie seems to be that the micro-management and control eventually pisses people off.</p>
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Long story short: I'll take odds that Eddie won't be at the next RWC with England, and England won't maintain their apparent form.</p> -
Mick has a good point but Cheikas biggest apparent failing is this very lack of forward planning. When injuries arise he has no fallback to up and comers he has nurtured, instead he is looking to old and failed players instead to putty up the holes. <br>
Despite the lack of Super Rugby results the are actually some promising players kicking around. From what we can see he brings a few into an extended squad then discards them. <br>
Compare that with the ABs that regularly bring these new players into camp to teach them, send them away with homework then reward those that do their homework with spots when a situation develops. <br>
I don't see that happening with the Wobblies. Foley to 12 is a prime example. Seriously? -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="BartMan" data-cid="608951" data-time="1472116447">
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<p>OK, take away the Waratahs Super win as that was on a refs cock up, and the RWC final, as that was on another refs cock up. ( I know, they're in the books, blah blah blah, but really, if you're selecting a coach, you would not lookk at those as great achievements - unless luck is soemthing that you want to use)!!!</p>
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<p>That leaves, what? </p>
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<p>Thanks to Wiki, a Heineken Cup with Leinster, and sod all else.</p>
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<p>Is he really, really coach of the year, and an international class coach?</p>
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<p>Thoughts from our Aussies? and Kiwis.</p>
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<p>And apologies if this has already been bought up, it's bene a while sice I fired up the old Commodore 64 and jumped on the Fern!</p>
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<p>Excuse me, we don't allow trolls on this site, so on your way newbie......</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="hurricane" data-cid="608958" data-time="1472117123"><p>
For example Sam Cane may not be the best choice for a 7,<br></p></blockquote>
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About to bite. Checks username. Realises trolling. Swims on past rancid bait. -
<p>Australia almost (should not have) made it out of the 1/4 finals of the RWC, I thought they were pretty average in that tournament.</p>
<p>Cheika does appear pretty over hyped. He is not a bad coach, he is a good coach.. but he has been pumped up to a level that is simply is not.</p> -
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<p>About to bite. Checks username. Realises trolling. Swims on past rancid bait.</p>
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<p>hurricane is a Chiefs man through and through...</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="BartMan" data-cid="608974" data-time="1472120024">
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<p>Physical we have always been behind or equal, and have always have had to be better in the top two inches. Boers are HUGE, Poms are gym monkeys, then it's us and the rest of the rugby world in bronze for the size stakes. We just use what we have, by and large better than the rest. Blitzkreig rugby - concentreate our force where they are weakest!!</p>
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<p>I think that's historical and these days we run out with packs the same size as everyone now. In the past few years we've had heavier scrums that both those teams on various occasions (and if we'd selected Tubbyfuna we'd always have had bigger packs than them).</p>
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<p>We've actually beaten the Boks and Poms recently by beating them up in the forwards. </p>
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<p>But I think it's a combo of us getting bigger, and those teams realising might isn't always right.</p>
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<p>Anyway, good to see you back for a cameo Bart.</p> -
Great to see you back Bart!<br><br>
Cheika is a good coach, but he isn't the second coming like certain people think he is. -
Depth is only part of the issue.<br>
If you look at this year's selections Cheika is all over the place. <br>
Two games ago the Oz pack delivered 75% possession against the Poms, who are no pushovers, and yet neither starting lock made the current squad (one injured I think). Contrast with Shag & Co's development approach where the continuity means if you can't pick 13 of the starting line up you must be clueless.<br>
And recent policy of having shadow squad is only going to improve depth.<br>
Bring on Saturday! -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="BartMan" data-cid="608951" data-time="1472116447">
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<p>OK, take away the Waratahs Super win as that was on a refs cock up,</p>
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<p>Are you going to take it away and give it to Toddy?</p>
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<p>He will be pleased to have won one after all. :)</p>
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<p>Nice to see you, Bartman!</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Nepia" data-cid="609064" data-time="1472164225">
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<p>I think that's historical and these days we run out with packs the same size as everyone now. In the past few years we've had heavier scrums that both those teams on various occasions (and if we'd selected Tubbyfuna we'd always have had bigger packs than them).</p>
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<p>We've actually beaten the Boks and Poms recently by beating them up in the forwards. </p>
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<p>But I think it's a combo of us getting bigger, and those teams realising might isn't always right.</p>
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<p>Anyway, good to see you back for a cameo Bart.</p>
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<p>although I know in the lead up to the Super rugby final, people who had been around both the Lions and canes camps were amazed at how big the SA players were and wondering how the canes would match it...we know they did, but seems for now, they are still looking bigger.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="609088" data-time="1472169576">
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<p>although I know in the lead up to the Super rugby final, people who had been around both the Lions and canes camps were amazed at how big the SA players were and wondering how the canes would match it...we know they did, but seems for now, they are still looking bigger.</p>
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<p>I just had a quick look through both squad's heights and weights and the stats don't say they're bigger - maybe the fact the Canes selected two midget locks (under 2m) by choice makes it look difference but Broadhurst is as big (actually bigger I think) as any lock the Lions have, Vito is bigger than Whitely - in fact the Canes loose forward trio are all bigger than their opposites, the props are much of a muchness with May probably being the biggest in the two squads. So either peoples eyes aren't an accurate gauge of height and weight or the official websites are incorrect and if Ardie isn't in fact 6ft 7 then my faith in humanity has gone.</p> -
<p>dunno, always been that perception though hasn't it, perception vs reality though. See these guys on TV and think they will be huge, then you stand next to them and nup, but someone you don't think is huge, is....I barely came upto Ardie's chest and by Fern height, I'm 6ft 2!</p>
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<p>May is a huge unit though!</p>
