Highlanders 2024
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@frugby said in Highlanders 2024:
Big confirmation last night that we just don't have the depth... we actually did alright in the first half. Looking at the starting pack particularly, Ainsley is obviously moving on, and Dunshea is at his peak, but the other six are only going to keep getting better.
Five of them are 23 and younger, so I think that is a positive - particularly as they all played quite well. Haig, Withy, Stodart is going to be a hell of a loose forward trio in a few years time.
The starting backline also went reasonably well, but once again without Tele'a we fell to bits. Save the second half comeback against the Chiefs, and the annihilation in Brisbane (where he played) the difference when he is and isn't on the field is crazy.
Defensively particularly... 12-47 v Hurricanes, 31-47 v Rebels, 6-15 (Second Half only) v Crusaders, 0-21 v (Second Half only) Blues... this is clearly not just a coincidence. Midfield is going to get a big overhaul, because J Whaanga already coming in, and I'd guess Timu and M Whaanga leave... probably TUJ too, so by my reckoning we need at least one more, which is likely to be a 13. Gilbert to stick around as a utility. Whoever it is simply has to have some pace.
The attack also fell apart when Millar went off, so we were exposed for not having Faleafaga on the bench. I understand the thought process in backing Millar, but when we had so many injuries anyway, having Hurley on the bench over him was just a bit stupid IMO.
The outside backs have been on the whole the best we have seen in years, though Bogado has been a bit disappointing. We've already signed a winger to replace him, and my understanding is that it is from another franchise... Sullivan is the obvious one who is off-contract, but that would feel really bizarre, because JRK has gone well at 15, and we've supposedly already signed Hurley (why?) so unlikely to be a fullback.
I wouldn't be surprised if we have lined someone up to take over from Nareki in a year or two. He has struggled with injuries and might want to cash in for his family. Could 2025 be the last in Landers colours for Nareki. Head to Japan, take a decent contract and aim to play a world cup for Fiji? What about Heremaia Murray (who spent a few weeks last year) or a Kade Banks. Some of the better young players, I can't see being let go by their franchises.
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While we still have three games left, it is always interesting to have a think about who may come and go. We certainly won't see 16 go like last year, there should still be a few though. Thinking to the start of the season my goal was to beat a NZ team (check), not be the worst NZ team (check), make the play offs (likely to scrape in), and get some answers about some of our young players (check). We have been walloped several times, that should have always been expected though. The Blues are a top side now. Five years ago they were dog tucker. It takes time turn things around.
- Hooker. Taylor and Bell stay. Jackson will probably stick around as the third hooker for another year.
- props: DLB and Ainsley goooone. The rest I'd say will be sticking around. No obvious replacements for those two. Hunter Fahey may be worth a look.
- locks: Parkinson and probably Hicks goone. No one jumps out in the local system. Hugo Plummer likely to get one of the spots.
- loosies: The only players I can see leaving are Renton and Harmon. Both probably at a time in their careers where they could make a bit in Japan or elsewhere. Especially Harmon. There was a weird rumour floating around that the St George Dragons were looking at Renton. At least one needs to go to make room for Stodart in the loosie mix.
- halfbacks: All three are under contract
- First five: Millar and Faleafaga under contract. Big opportunity for Byron Smith to have a good year with Southland.
- Midfield: Te Hiwi, Gilbert and Tele'a will be there. This area likely to see our biggest shift in players. I can see Umaga-Jensen, Timu, M Whaanga moving on. Josh Whaanga replacing his brother. Jonah Lowe will be in the last year of his contract. I can see them deciding to use him primarily as midfield cover, to open up a spot for an outside back. Unless we can land one of the better 20/21 year old midfielders.
- outside backs: Bogado already confirmed to be leaving. Hurley coming in. @frugby has heard rumours of another outside back from a NZ Squad. Being a betting man, I reckon we will see Nareki head off-shore over the next couple of years to push for a Fijian WC spot. The player coming in might be for CGB, who surprisingly was pretty good in the games he played this year. So any new guy in, should be set up to replace Nareki. I think they have high hopes for Josh Augustine, he will be at least a couple of years away. Should get a glimpse of what he is like for Southland during the NPC. Seems to be doing some good things in Dunedin Club rugby.
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@SouthernMann Wouldn't Asi and Rangitutia be ahead of Augustine in the outside backs?
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@Bovidae said in Highlanders 2024:
@SouthernMann Wouldn't Asi and Rangitutia be ahead of Augustine in the outside backs?
Kyan Rangitutia and Augustine are in the same back three for the Dunedin Sharks. Similar age too? Asi will hopefully get some more opportunities for Otago this season.
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@SouthernMann kind of kills the conversation when you sum everything up so succinctly
one question from me, do we think that Gilbert has cut the mustard at 12?
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@Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders 2024:
@SouthernMann kind of kills the conversation when you sum everything up so succinctly
one question from me, do we think that Gilbert has cut the mustard at 12?
Gilbert seems a really strange case. Everything about him says he should be a top quality player. Big, apparently fast, game management skillset, can goal kick. Just plays like a bit of a not much. I think he is a bench player. Primarily a 12. He is someone in the 22 jersey who offers leadership, covers 10, 12, 14 and 15. Gives a specialist player a spot in the 23 jersey. Or allows us to play a 6/2. He came through the Canterbury/ Crusaders development system at the same time as Dallas McLeod. He was the guy who ended up down the road. Both players have similar builds and play similar styles.
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@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2024:
While we still have three games left, it is always interesting to have a think about who may come and go. We certainly won't see 16 go like last year, there should still be a few though. Thinking to the start of the season my goal was to beat a NZ team (check), not be the worst NZ team (check), make the play offs (likely to scrape in), and get some answers about some of our young players (check). We have been walloped several times, that should have always been expected though. The Blues are a top side now. Five years ago they were dog tucker. It takes time turn things around.
- Hooker. Taylor and Bell stay. Jackson will probably stick around as the third hooker for another year.
- props: DLB and Ainsley goooone. The rest I'd say will be sticking around. No obvious replacements for those two. Hunter Fahey may be worth a look.
- locks: Parkinson and probably Hicks goone. No one jumps out in the local system. Hugo Plummer likely to get one of the spots.
- loosies: The only players I can see leaving are Renton and Harmon. Both probably at a time in their careers where they could make a bit in Japan or elsewhere. Especially Harmon. There was a weird rumour floating around that the St George Dragons were looking at Renton. At least one needs to go to make room for Stodart in the loosie mix.
- halfbacks: All three are under contract
- First five: Millar and Faleafaga under contract. Big opportunity for Byron Smith to have a good year with Southland.
- Midfield: Te Hiwi, Gilbert and Tele'a will be there. This area likely to see our biggest shift in players. I can see Umaga-Jensen, Timu, M Whaanga moving on. Josh Whaanga replacing his brother. Jonah Lowe will be in the last year of his contract. I can see them deciding to use him primarily as midfield cover, to open up a spot for an outside back. Unless we can land one of the better 20/21 year old midfielders.
- outside backs: Bogado already confirmed to be leaving. Hurley coming in. @frugby has heard rumours of another outside back from a NZ Squad. Being a betting man, I reckon we will see Nareki head off-shore over the next couple of years to push for a Fijian WC spot. The player coming in might be for CGB, who surprisingly was pretty good in the games he played this year. So any new guy in, should be set up to replace Nareki. I think they have high hopes for Josh Augustine, he will be at least a couple of years away. Should get a glimpse of what he is like for Southland during the NPC. Seems to be doing some good things in Dunedin Club rugby.
Nice review mate and appreciate the time these things take. Great read.
For me, id rather cut ties with Ricky Jackson and bring in Liam Coltman as that third Hooker and mentor now that he’s back in town with Otago. A lot more experience than Jackson and also a lot better player, no harm having your third hooker a bit longer in the tooth. A-One Lolofie for a wider squad spot and slowly develop.
At prop it’s interesting, could we make a push for Abraham Pole now that a loose head spot is open? After all, he is an Otago boy and I’d be surprised if the Highlanders haven’t already had discussions with him saying it would be beneficial to get experience with Moana. I know we shouldn’t be poaching Moana’s players every season but I’m just putting 2 and 2 together. Hes young and has a bright future. At tighthead, Wingham has a long way to go but he is young(21 I think?). Young guys like Fletcher Newell coming in and doing was he has done at that age is extremely rare so patience will be important when it comes to Saula Ma’u and finding a back up.
Would be gutted to see Nareki or CGB go as a lot has been invested into them but I think you’re on to something. Hopefully they can stay around for another season given they know there is a lot of game time to be had whether starting or in the 23 jersey. No qualms with Bogada leaving, as I said in a previous thread that’s a failed experiment(similar to the Argentinian prop we signed a wee while back).
Midfield is a huge one to watch, I still think we need to push for another 12(I see Corey Evans has resigned with the blues so he’s a target off the list), one that is capable of progressing and eventually push on for higher honors. I thought that was Gilbert but it’s proven to be a tough season for him and again we are asking ourselves what his best position is, 12 or 15. If he’s 12, he needs NPC time there and another chance next season. No qualms with Matt Whaanga leaving, his brother is hopefully a long term answer for us.
As for Harmon, I’m not emotionally ready for him to leave just yet as he embodies what being a Highlander is and is a great captain but I wouldn’t blame him if he decides to leave if he misses out on AB’s selection in the upcoming series or end of year tour.
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@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2024:
@Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders 2024:
@SouthernMann kind of kills the conversation when you sum everything up so succinctly
one question from me, do we think that Gilbert has cut the mustard at 12?
Gilbert seems a really strange case. Everything about him says he should be a top quality player. Big, apparently fast, game management skillset, can goal kick. Just plays like a bit of a not much. I think he is a bench player. Primarily a 12. He is someone in the 22 jersey who offers leadership, covers 10, 12, 14 and 15. Gives a specialist player a spot in the 23 jersey. Or allows us to play a 6/2. He came through the Canterbury/ Crusaders development system at the same time as Dallas McLeod. He was the guy who ended up down the road. Both players have similar builds and play similar styles.
yeah, i am feeling with things as they currently are impact player is where he sits
my only other quesiton was if we could turn him into a wing in the off season. hes got a little size and some speed, at 12 when he's often double teamed we dont see the benefit...maybe in space on the wing when he might only have to beat one on one we might see him shine again, would also let him be a exit kick option...if we think nareki might be off....could he learn 11?
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Southland-product Sean Withy honing his openside craft with Highlanders
Openside flanker Sean Withy has appeared in all 12 matches (836 minutes) for the Highlanders in Super Rugby Pacific 2024.
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@Landers92 said in Highlanders 2024:
@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2024:
While we still have three games left, it is always interesting to have a think about who may come and go. We certainly won't see 16 go like last year, there should still be a few though. Thinking to the start of the season my goal was to beat a NZ team (check), not be the worst NZ team (check), make the play offs (likely to scrape in), and get some answers about some of our young players (check). We have been walloped several times, that should have always been expected though. The Blues are a top side now. Five years ago they were dog tucker. It takes time turn things around.
- Hooker. Taylor and Bell stay. Jackson will probably stick around as the third hooker for another year.
- props: DLB and Ainsley goooone. The rest I'd say will be sticking around. No obvious replacements for those two. Hunter Fahey may be worth a look.
- locks: Parkinson and probably Hicks goone. No one jumps out in the local system. Hugo Plummer likely to get one of the spots.
- loosies: The only players I can see leaving are Renton and Harmon. Both probably at a time in their careers where they could make a bit in Japan or elsewhere. Especially Harmon. There was a weird rumour floating around that the St George Dragons were looking at Renton. At least one needs to go to make room for Stodart in the loosie mix.
- halfbacks: All three are under contract
- First five: Millar and Faleafaga under contract. Big opportunity for Byron Smith to have a good year with Southland.
- Midfield: Te Hiwi, Gilbert and Tele'a will be there. This area likely to see our biggest shift in players. I can see Umaga-Jensen, Timu, M Whaanga moving on. Josh Whaanga replacing his brother. Jonah Lowe will be in the last year of his contract. I can see them deciding to use him primarily as midfield cover, to open up a spot for an outside back. Unless we can land one of the better 20/21 year old midfielders.
- outside backs: Bogado already confirmed to be leaving. Hurley coming in. @frugby has heard rumours of another outside back from a NZ Squad. Being a betting man, I reckon we will see Nareki head off-shore over the next couple of years to push for a Fijian WC spot. The player coming in might be for CGB, who surprisingly was pretty good in the games he played this year. So any new guy in, should be set up to replace Nareki. I think they have high hopes for Josh Augustine, he will be at least a couple of years away. Should get a glimpse of what he is like for Southland during the NPC. Seems to be doing some good things in Dunedin Club rugby.
Nice review mate and appreciate the time these things take. Great read.
For me, id rather cut ties with Ricky Jackson and bring in Liam Coltman as that third Hooker and mentor now that he’s back in town with Otago. A lot more experience than Jackson and also a lot better player, no harm having your third hooker a bit longer in the tooth. A-One Lolofie for a wider squad spot and slowly develop.
At prop it’s interesting, could we make a push for Abraham Pole now that a loose head spot is open? After all, he is an Otago boy and I’d be surprised if the Highlanders haven’t already had discussions with him saying it would be beneficial to get experience with Moana. I know we shouldn’t be poaching Moana’s players every season but I’m just putting 2 and 2 together. Hes young and has a bright future. At tighthead, Wingham has a long way to go but he is young(21 I think?). Young guys like Fletcher Newell coming in and doing was he has done at that age is extremely rare so patience will be important when it comes to Saula Ma’u and finding a back up.
Would be gutted to see Nareki or CGB go as a lot has been invested into them but I think you’re on to something. Hopefully they can stay around for another season given they know there is a lot of game time to be had whether starting or in the 23 jersey. No qualms with Bogada leaving, as I said in a previous thread that’s a failed experiment(similar to the Argentinian prop we signed a wee while back).
Midfield is a huge one to watch, I still think we need to push for another 12(I see Corey Evans has resigned with the blues so he’s a target off the list), one that is capable of progressing and eventually push on for higher honors. I thought that was Gilbert but it’s proven to be a tough season for him and again we are asking ourselves what his best position is, 12 or 15. If he’s 12, he needs NPC time there and another chance next season. No qualms with Matt Whaanga leaving, his brother is hopefully a long term answer for us.
As for Harmon, I’m not emotionally ready for him to leave just yet as he embodies what being a Highlander is and is a great captain but I wouldn’t blame him if he decides to leave if he misses out on AB’s selection in the upcoming series or end of year tour.
I'd be very disappointed if we went backwards to and picked Coltman. He was the first choice it seemed for the majority of 2022, when the choices were pretty average. Prior to that he was behind Adh Dixon for a couple of years. I highly doubt at 35 he is the man we want should something go wrong with Bell or Taylor. Jackson has generally been solid, and we should reward that. Even for Otago. I'd be disappointed if Coltman gets a run ahead of those two. People think of Coltman with rose tinted glasses, and they can colour memories of what his performances were actually like, especially in his last couple of years. CGB has been a bit of an enigma. Some of his performances have been top notch, but the mix of injuries and shockers may put him in the too hard basket.
I don't have anything overly solid to suggest Harmon or Nareki may want to leave. It just seems like the batural progression of two players just just outside the AB pool and have the ability to make $$$ off-shore. Midfield options, most other teams look quite settled, I'd just be hunting the young fellas and their national U20 reps. Tell them they won't get a start with other teams and make promises we can keep and their home feqnchises can't. -
@Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders 2024:
@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2024:
@Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders 2024:
@SouthernMann kind of kills the conversation when you sum everything up so succinctly
one question from me, do we think that Gilbert has cut the mustard at 12?
Gilbert seems a really strange case. Everything about him says he should be a top quality player. Big, apparently fast, game management skillset, can goal kick. Just plays like a bit of a not much. I think he is a bench player. Primarily a 12. He is someone in the 22 jersey who offers leadership, covers 10, 12, 14 and 15. Gives a specialist player a spot in the 23 jersey. Or allows us to play a 6/2. He came through the Canterbury/ Crusaders development system at the same time as Dallas McLeod. He was the guy who ended up down the road. Both players have similar builds and play similar styles.
yeah, i am feeling with things as they currently are impact player is where he sits
my only other quesiton was if we could turn him into a wing in the off season. hes got a little size and some speed, at 12 when he's often double teamed we dont see the benefit...maybe in space on the wing when he might only have to beat one on one we might see him shine again, would also let him be a exit kick option...if we think nareki might be off....could he learn 11?
That'd be him going full circle. He originally came down as a replacement winger. I don't know how he'd feel after getting into prime roles, getting feedback to see off you go back to the wing.
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@SouthernMann true, i forgot about that, everyone is different i guess, i feel id rather take a shot at making a jersey my own rather than continue as this utility kind of player that never quite nailed it
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@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2024:
@Landers92 said in Highlanders 2024:
@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2024:
While we still have three games left, it is always interesting to have a think about who may come and go. We certainly won't see 16 go like last year, there should still be a few though. Thinking to the start of the season my goal was to beat a NZ team (check), not be the worst NZ team (check), make the play offs (likely to scrape in), and get some answers about some of our young players (check). We have been walloped several times, that should have always been expected though. The Blues are a top side now. Five years ago they were dog tucker. It takes time turn things around.
- Hooker. Taylor and Bell stay. Jackson will probably stick around as the third hooker for another year.
- props: DLB and Ainsley goooone. The rest I'd say will be sticking around. No obvious replacements for those two. Hunter Fahey may be worth a look.
- locks: Parkinson and probably Hicks goone. No one jumps out in the local system. Hugo Plummer likely to get one of the spots.
- loosies: The only players I can see leaving are Renton and Harmon. Both probably at a time in their careers where they could make a bit in Japan or elsewhere. Especially Harmon. There was a weird rumour floating around that the St George Dragons were looking at Renton. At least one needs to go to make room for Stodart in the loosie mix.
- halfbacks: All three are under contract
- First five: Millar and Faleafaga under contract. Big opportunity for Byron Smith to have a good year with Southland.
- Midfield: Te Hiwi, Gilbert and Tele'a will be there. This area likely to see our biggest shift in players. I can see Umaga-Jensen, Timu, M Whaanga moving on. Josh Whaanga replacing his brother. Jonah Lowe will be in the last year of his contract. I can see them deciding to use him primarily as midfield cover, to open up a spot for an outside back. Unless we can land one of the better 20/21 year old midfielders.
- outside backs: Bogado already confirmed to be leaving. Hurley coming in. @frugby has heard rumours of another outside back from a NZ Squad. Being a betting man, I reckon we will see Nareki head off-shore over the next couple of years to push for a Fijian WC spot. The player coming in might be for CGB, who surprisingly was pretty good in the games he played this year. So any new guy in, should be set up to replace Nareki. I think they have high hopes for Josh Augustine, he will be at least a couple of years away. Should get a glimpse of what he is like for Southland during the NPC. Seems to be doing some good things in Dunedin Club rugby.
Nice review mate and appreciate the time these things take. Great read.
For me, id rather cut ties with Ricky Jackson and bring in Liam Coltman as that third Hooker and mentor now that he’s back in town with Otago. A lot more experience than Jackson and also a lot better player, no harm having your third hooker a bit longer in the tooth. A-One Lolofie for a wider squad spot and slowly develop.
At prop it’s interesting, could we make a push for Abraham Pole now that a loose head spot is open? After all, he is an Otago boy and I’d be surprised if the Highlanders haven’t already had discussions with him saying it would be beneficial to get experience with Moana. I know we shouldn’t be poaching Moana’s players every season but I’m just putting 2 and 2 together. Hes young and has a bright future. At tighthead, Wingham has a long way to go but he is young(21 I think?). Young guys like Fletcher Newell coming in and doing was he has done at that age is extremely rare so patience will be important when it comes to Saula Ma’u and finding a back up.
Would be gutted to see Nareki or CGB go as a lot has been invested into them but I think you’re on to something. Hopefully they can stay around for another season given they know there is a lot of game time to be had whether starting or in the 23 jersey. No qualms with Bogada leaving, as I said in a previous thread that’s a failed experiment(similar to the Argentinian prop we signed a wee while back).
Midfield is a huge one to watch, I still think we need to push for another 12(I see Corey Evans has resigned with the blues so he’s a target off the list), one that is capable of progressing and eventually push on for higher honors. I thought that was Gilbert but it’s proven to be a tough season for him and again we are asking ourselves what his best position is, 12 or 15. If he’s 12, he needs NPC time there and another chance next season. No qualms with Matt Whaanga leaving, his brother is hopefully a long term answer for us.
As for Harmon, I’m not emotionally ready for him to leave just yet as he embodies what being a Highlander is and is a great captain but I wouldn’t blame him if he decides to leave if he misses out on AB’s selection in the upcoming series or end of year tour.
I'd be very disappointed if we went backwards to and picked Coltman. He was the first choice it seemed for the majority of 2022, when the choices were pretty average. Prior to that he was behind Adh Dixon for a couple of years. I highly doubt at 35 he is the man we want should something go wrong with Bell or Taylor. Jackson has generally been solid, and we should reward that. Even for Otago. I'd be disappointed if Coltman gets a run ahead of those two. People think of Coltman with rose tinted glasses, and they can colour memories of what his performances were actually like, especially in his last couple of years. CGB has been a bit of an enigma. Some of his performances have been top notch, but the mix of injuries and shockers may put him in the too hard basket.
I don't have anything overly solid to suggest Harmon or Nareki may want to leave. It just seems like the batural progression of two players just just outside the AB pool and have the ability to make $$$ off-shore. Midfield options, most other teams look quite settled, I'd just be hunting the young fellas and their national U20 reps. Tell them they won't get a start with other teams and make promises we can keep and their home feqnchises can't.Yeah I get where you’re coming from. I’m just not a huge fan of Ricky Jackson and I can’t imagine Coltman has just come back to Dunedin to play for Otago and call it a day. We know the Highlanders were after him before the season starter. That hooker room lacks a mentor and Coltman fits the bill, hence with those are my thoughts. Every other super rugby team takes a similar approach by keeping experienced front rowers and with Ainsley leaving and possibly DLB then Coltman would bring that experience.
At the end of the day we have much bigger issues than our third string hooker haha so let’s hope recruitment is healthy and Jamie Jo can’t work some of the recruitment magic.
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im honestly not sure how much mentorship they need, bell is 24 and been playing professional rugby for 3-4 years (some of them already under coltman), if thats a side benefit because we actually need him as a player then great....but i wouldnt bring him in if that was a main reason
lets not forget, the head coach is a former front rower who came through the local system too play for the highlanders...so they are pretty well supported
