Highlanders 2024
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@frugby said in Highlanders 2024:
@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2024:
@Landers92 said in Highlanders 2024:
Absolutely, that would be huge news for the southern regions. Hopefully Otago can sign on some of these players that make their way down south, similar to what Sam Gilbert has done with Otago.
Does anyone know if Dunshea has signed with Otago or is he still with Canterbury? A lot of players are attached to their initial regions so it’s fair enough I guess.
In terms of Dunshea. As mentioned, in the Dwyer ODT article it reads like he is going to Southland. From a financial perspective, I'm against Otago recruiting established Super quality players. Keep bringing kids down at 18. Don't sign guys aged 25+. Too expensive. Just like what we did last year wirh Sanders. Did he offer more than Lio-Willie or Stodart. Nah. We certainly shouldn't be paying over market rates for Highlanders who are just average Super players.
Depends what you define as overpaying for 25+
If Otago were a serious union, you'd match what Southland are paying for Tavatavanawai and Dunshea... those are quality players who improve your team. Sanders will be on f all I imagine, more just that he lives here because he signed for the Landers.
It depends what you call Otago being a serious union. The NPC is a second tier competition. To me Otago being a serious union is having money to support community rugby, players flowing from inside the province (including being recruited out of school) to rep and Super and the teams being competitive with that system. The last couple of years Otago has primarily picked players developed through its systems, alongside with the Highlanders. Otago and Southland should be taking a shared approach when looking at players interested in settling down south. Southland have picked up Byron Smith, Otago already has two of the young first fives. Gives Smith a chance to show he can be the third 10. Otago will need to play some of its midfielders on the wing this season, and Tavatavatanawai can add a huge amount to the Stags. The more the three organisations can work together the better off rugby in the south will be. With Sanders, having him on the books also stands in the way of guys like Stodart, or it has him playing B rugby because we have too many loosies. Between Otago and Southland we are two smallish provinces and we need to work together.
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Thought this was interesting so will put in here for whoever is interested.
Tom Sanders named on the bench for his club up in Christchurch this weekend. Surely he should be playing some prem footy in Dunedin considering he’s contracted to Otago? Instead he’s playing Division 2 country rugby in Canterbury…… how did he get away with that?!
Positive is hes back on the field I guess.
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@Landers92 said in Highlanders 2024:
Thought this was interesting so will put in here for whoever is interested.
Tom Sanders named on the bench for his club up in Christchurch this weekend. Surely he should be playing some prem footy in Dunedin considering he’s contracted to Otago? Instead he’s playing Division 2 country rugby in Canterbury…… how did he get away with that?!
Positive is hes back on the field I guess.
He did only sign a one year contract with Otago. With the Highlanders it seemed like he was picked up as an insurance policy more than anything. Someone who can step in if Broughton and Stodart weren't quite ready. He has one more year to go and may just be a competent squad member. Interested to see where he plays his provincial rugby this year. Can't imagaine Canterbury will be busting a gut to get him back. Same with Lio-Willie and whether he will be back.
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When other franchises elevate young players who have come through the NZ U20 system, they are often the best players in the national squad. It seems some of our players, tended to just be squad members. Just because they are the best in Otago/Southland are they the right players to get quickly get elevated and do they deserve it or are they capable of the step up?
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Big confirmation last night that we just don't have the depth... we actually did alright in the first half. Looking at the starting pack particularly, Ainsley is obviously moving on, and Dunshea is at his peak, but the other six are only going to keep getting better.
Five of them are 23 and younger, so I think that is a positive - particularly as they all played quite well. Haig, Withy, Stodart is going to be a hell of a loose forward trio in a few years time.
The starting backline also went reasonably well, but once again without Tele'a we fell to bits. Save the second half comeback against the Chiefs, and the annihilation in Brisbane (where he played) the difference when he is and isn't on the field is crazy.
Defensively particularly... 12-47 v Hurricanes, 31-47 v Rebels, 6-15 (Second Half only) v Crusaders, 0-21 v (Second Half only) Blues... this is clearly not just a coincidence. Midfield is going to get a big overhaul, because J Whaanga already coming in, and I'd guess Timu and M Whaanga leave... probably TUJ too, so by my reckoning we need at least one more, which is likely to be a 13. Gilbert to stick around as a utility. Whoever it is simply has to have some pace.
The attack also fell apart when Millar went off, so we were exposed for not having Faleafaga on the bench. I understand the thought process in backing Millar, but when we had so many injuries anyway, having Hurley on the bench over him was just a bit stupid IMO.
The outside backs have been on the whole the best we have seen in years, though Bogado has been a bit disappointing. We've already signed a winger to replace him, and my understanding is that it is from another franchise... Sullivan is the obvious one who is off-contract, but that would feel really bizarre, because JRK has gone well at 15, and we've supposedly already signed Hurley (why?) so unlikely to be a fullback.
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@frugby said in Highlanders 2024:
Big confirmation last night that we just don't have the depth... we actually did alright in the first half. Looking at the starting pack particularly, Ainsley is obviously moving on, and Dunshea is at his peak, but the other six are only going to keep getting better.
Five of them are 23 and younger, so I think that is a positive - particularly as they all played quite well. Haig, Withy, Stodart is going to be a hell of a loose forward trio in a few years time.
The starting backline also went reasonably well, but once again without Tele'a we fell to bits. Save the second half comeback against the Chiefs, and the annihilation in Brisbane (where he played) the difference when he is and isn't on the field is crazy.
Defensively particularly... 12-47 v Hurricanes, 31-47 v Rebels, 6-15 (Second Half only) v Crusaders, 0-21 v (Second Half only) Blues... this is clearly not just a coincidence. Midfield is going to get a big overhaul, because J Whaanga already coming in, and I'd guess Timu and M Whaanga leave... probably TUJ too, so by my reckoning we need at least one more, which is likely to be a 13. Gilbert to stick around as a utility. Whoever it is simply has to have some pace.
The attack also fell apart when Millar went off, so we were exposed for not having Faleafaga on the bench. I understand the thought process in backing Millar, but when we had so many injuries anyway, having Hurley on the bench over him was just a bit stupid IMO.
The outside backs have been on the whole the best we have seen in years, though Bogado has been a bit disappointing. We've already signed a winger to replace him, and my understanding is that it is from another franchise... Sullivan is the obvious one who is off-contract, but that would feel really bizarre, because JRK has gone well at 15, and we've supposedly already signed Hurley (why?) so unlikely to be a fullback.
I wouldn't be surprised if we have lined someone up to take over from Nareki in a year or two. He has struggled with injuries and might want to cash in for his family. Could 2025 be the last in Landers colours for Nareki. Head to Japan, take a decent contract and aim to play a world cup for Fiji? What about Heremaia Murray (who spent a few weeks last year) or a Kade Banks. Some of the better young players, I can't see being let go by their franchises.
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While we still have three games left, it is always interesting to have a think about who may come and go. We certainly won't see 16 go like last year, there should still be a few though. Thinking to the start of the season my goal was to beat a NZ team (check), not be the worst NZ team (check), make the play offs (likely to scrape in), and get some answers about some of our young players (check). We have been walloped several times, that should have always been expected though. The Blues are a top side now. Five years ago they were dog tucker. It takes time turn things around.
- Hooker. Taylor and Bell stay. Jackson will probably stick around as the third hooker for another year.
- props: DLB and Ainsley goooone. The rest I'd say will be sticking around. No obvious replacements for those two. Hunter Fahey may be worth a look.
- locks: Parkinson and probably Hicks goone. No one jumps out in the local system. Hugo Plummer likely to get one of the spots.
- loosies: The only players I can see leaving are Renton and Harmon. Both probably at a time in their careers where they could make a bit in Japan or elsewhere. Especially Harmon. There was a weird rumour floating around that the St George Dragons were looking at Renton. At least one needs to go to make room for Stodart in the loosie mix.
- halfbacks: All three are under contract
- First five: Millar and Faleafaga under contract. Big opportunity for Byron Smith to have a good year with Southland.
- Midfield: Te Hiwi, Gilbert and Tele'a will be there. This area likely to see our biggest shift in players. I can see Umaga-Jensen, Timu, M Whaanga moving on. Josh Whaanga replacing his brother. Jonah Lowe will be in the last year of his contract. I can see them deciding to use him primarily as midfield cover, to open up a spot for an outside back. Unless we can land one of the better 20/21 year old midfielders.
- outside backs: Bogado already confirmed to be leaving. Hurley coming in. @frugby has heard rumours of another outside back from a NZ Squad. Being a betting man, I reckon we will see Nareki head off-shore over the next couple of years to push for a Fijian WC spot. The player coming in might be for CGB, who surprisingly was pretty good in the games he played this year. So any new guy in, should be set up to replace Nareki. I think they have high hopes for Josh Augustine, he will be at least a couple of years away. Should get a glimpse of what he is like for Southland during the NPC. Seems to be doing some good things in Dunedin Club rugby.
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@SouthernMann Wouldn't Asi and Rangitutia be ahead of Augustine in the outside backs?
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@Bovidae said in Highlanders 2024:
@SouthernMann Wouldn't Asi and Rangitutia be ahead of Augustine in the outside backs?
Kyan Rangitutia and Augustine are in the same back three for the Dunedin Sharks. Similar age too? Asi will hopefully get some more opportunities for Otago this season.
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@SouthernMann kind of kills the conversation when you sum everything up so succinctly
one question from me, do we think that Gilbert has cut the mustard at 12?
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@Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders 2024:
@SouthernMann kind of kills the conversation when you sum everything up so succinctly
one question from me, do we think that Gilbert has cut the mustard at 12?
Gilbert seems a really strange case. Everything about him says he should be a top quality player. Big, apparently fast, game management skillset, can goal kick. Just plays like a bit of a not much. I think he is a bench player. Primarily a 12. He is someone in the 22 jersey who offers leadership, covers 10, 12, 14 and 15. Gives a specialist player a spot in the 23 jersey. Or allows us to play a 6/2. He came through the Canterbury/ Crusaders development system at the same time as Dallas McLeod. He was the guy who ended up down the road. Both players have similar builds and play similar styles.
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@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2024:
While we still have three games left, it is always interesting to have a think about who may come and go. We certainly won't see 16 go like last year, there should still be a few though. Thinking to the start of the season my goal was to beat a NZ team (check), not be the worst NZ team (check), make the play offs (likely to scrape in), and get some answers about some of our young players (check). We have been walloped several times, that should have always been expected though. The Blues are a top side now. Five years ago they were dog tucker. It takes time turn things around.
- Hooker. Taylor and Bell stay. Jackson will probably stick around as the third hooker for another year.
- props: DLB and Ainsley goooone. The rest I'd say will be sticking around. No obvious replacements for those two. Hunter Fahey may be worth a look.
- locks: Parkinson and probably Hicks goone. No one jumps out in the local system. Hugo Plummer likely to get one of the spots.
- loosies: The only players I can see leaving are Renton and Harmon. Both probably at a time in their careers where they could make a bit in Japan or elsewhere. Especially Harmon. There was a weird rumour floating around that the St George Dragons were looking at Renton. At least one needs to go to make room for Stodart in the loosie mix.
- halfbacks: All three are under contract
- First five: Millar and Faleafaga under contract. Big opportunity for Byron Smith to have a good year with Southland.
- Midfield: Te Hiwi, Gilbert and Tele'a will be there. This area likely to see our biggest shift in players. I can see Umaga-Jensen, Timu, M Whaanga moving on. Josh Whaanga replacing his brother. Jonah Lowe will be in the last year of his contract. I can see them deciding to use him primarily as midfield cover, to open up a spot for an outside back. Unless we can land one of the better 20/21 year old midfielders.
- outside backs: Bogado already confirmed to be leaving. Hurley coming in. @frugby has heard rumours of another outside back from a NZ Squad. Being a betting man, I reckon we will see Nareki head off-shore over the next couple of years to push for a Fijian WC spot. The player coming in might be for CGB, who surprisingly was pretty good in the games he played this year. So any new guy in, should be set up to replace Nareki. I think they have high hopes for Josh Augustine, he will be at least a couple of years away. Should get a glimpse of what he is like for Southland during the NPC. Seems to be doing some good things in Dunedin Club rugby.
Nice review mate and appreciate the time these things take. Great read.
For me, id rather cut ties with Ricky Jackson and bring in Liam Coltman as that third Hooker and mentor now that he’s back in town with Otago. A lot more experience than Jackson and also a lot better player, no harm having your third hooker a bit longer in the tooth. A-One Lolofie for a wider squad spot and slowly develop.
At prop it’s interesting, could we make a push for Abraham Pole now that a loose head spot is open? After all, he is an Otago boy and I’d be surprised if the Highlanders haven’t already had discussions with him saying it would be beneficial to get experience with Moana. I know we shouldn’t be poaching Moana’s players every season but I’m just putting 2 and 2 together. Hes young and has a bright future. At tighthead, Wingham has a long way to go but he is young(21 I think?). Young guys like Fletcher Newell coming in and doing was he has done at that age is extremely rare so patience will be important when it comes to Saula Ma’u and finding a back up.
Would be gutted to see Nareki or CGB go as a lot has been invested into them but I think you’re on to something. Hopefully they can stay around for another season given they know there is a lot of game time to be had whether starting or in the 23 jersey. No qualms with Bogada leaving, as I said in a previous thread that’s a failed experiment(similar to the Argentinian prop we signed a wee while back).
Midfield is a huge one to watch, I still think we need to push for another 12(I see Corey Evans has resigned with the blues so he’s a target off the list), one that is capable of progressing and eventually push on for higher honors. I thought that was Gilbert but it’s proven to be a tough season for him and again we are asking ourselves what his best position is, 12 or 15. If he’s 12, he needs NPC time there and another chance next season. No qualms with Matt Whaanga leaving, his brother is hopefully a long term answer for us.
As for Harmon, I’m not emotionally ready for him to leave just yet as he embodies what being a Highlander is and is a great captain but I wouldn’t blame him if he decides to leave if he misses out on AB’s selection in the upcoming series or end of year tour.
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@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2024:
@Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders 2024:
@SouthernMann kind of kills the conversation when you sum everything up so succinctly
one question from me, do we think that Gilbert has cut the mustard at 12?
Gilbert seems a really strange case. Everything about him says he should be a top quality player. Big, apparently fast, game management skillset, can goal kick. Just plays like a bit of a not much. I think he is a bench player. Primarily a 12. He is someone in the 22 jersey who offers leadership, covers 10, 12, 14 and 15. Gives a specialist player a spot in the 23 jersey. Or allows us to play a 6/2. He came through the Canterbury/ Crusaders development system at the same time as Dallas McLeod. He was the guy who ended up down the road. Both players have similar builds and play similar styles.
yeah, i am feeling with things as they currently are impact player is where he sits
my only other quesiton was if we could turn him into a wing in the off season. hes got a little size and some speed, at 12 when he's often double teamed we dont see the benefit...maybe in space on the wing when he might only have to beat one on one we might see him shine again, would also let him be a exit kick option...if we think nareki might be off....could he learn 11?
