All Blacks 2024
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I would have thought that was the role of the forwards coaching setup. SW as a mentor, good idea.
Hall on the rugby pod suggesting that it is a Razor strategy for getting a voice in the room who he trusts that can provide back room advice and mentoring.
If it's true, and he needs to be a player in the squad, what does that say to senior AB's who have committed to the team and forgone the lure of the Euro or Yen?
In some ways, I think that it’s great that Razor values his experience so much, but it’s also worrying that he doesn’t seem to be confident of developing that culture without a player who has left.
If he doesn't know his senior players - Ardie, Cane, Reiko etc - well enough to be confident in them, then he has a bit of a problem I'd suggest.
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He is my preferred lock to partner Barratt. But let’s face it he has only had 2 test matches.
Looked very good in BA though👍
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@Victor-Meldrew but if he comes back and is still one of the top 2 locks we have, why wouldn't you play him...if you are good enough you are old/young enough...
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Victor-Meldrew but if he comes back and is still one of the top 2 locks we have, why wouldn't you play him...if you are good enough you are old/young enough...
If he comes back in 2025 after his 2 year Pau contract, then yeah, that's a possibility. But he'll be pushing 37 by then and I'd like to think we have a Head Coach who want to look to the future and is capable of developing his players and team.
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@Victor-Meldrew again, if he is the best, and proved it, not reputational, then it's a non issue who's coming through.
This is where McCaw simply retiring from the game made it easier, were no calls for his return, while I am sure Sam knows his body and what he can or can't still do, he is also risking his own legacy if he does come back and fails to fire.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Victor-Meldrew but if he comes back and is still one of the top 2 locks we have, why wouldn't you play him...if you are good enough you are old/young enough...
If he comes back in 2025 after his 2 year Pau contract, then yeah, that's a possibility. But he'll be pushing 37 by then and I'd like to think we have a Head Coach who want to look to the future and is capable of developing his players and team.
Note his contract is one year with an option for another, not 2 years. Sam could easily be back at the end of the French season, which is just before the NH tours here
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I would have thought that was the role of the forwards coaching setup. SW as a mentor, good idea.
Hall on the rugby pod suggesting that it is a Razor strategy for getting a voice in the room who he trusts that can provide back room advice and mentoring.
Hall has essentially said that at the end of the day it’s about his relationship with Razor.
In some ways, I think that it’s great that Razor values his experience so much, but it’s also worrying that he doesn’t seem to be confident of developing that culture without a player who has left.
I not sure it's about not being confident of developing culture etc (that's all jsut assumption anyway why they think is why he wants Sam), but more I would think use every weapon at your disposal. It's not so much culture as anyway I think ,as helping players make decisions on field. I have said before I pleased that coaches do this, he won't last to WC, but tests we play until then are still imprtant.
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@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Victor-Meldrew but if he comes back and is still one of the top 2 locks we have, why wouldn't you play him...if you are good enough you are old/young enough...
If he comes back in 2025 after his 2 year Pau contract, then yeah, that's a possibility. But he'll be pushing 37 by then and I'd like to think we have a Head Coach who want to look to the future and is capable of developing his players and team.
Note his contract is one year with an option for another, not 2 years. Sam could easily be back at the end of the French season, which is just before the NH tours here
I guess I'd prefer a new AB coach (if the rumours are true) to look beyond a 12-18 month horizon and not focus his energy on a 35 yr lock.
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If Robertson wants SW in a coaching/mentoring role, then great. If he wants him back as a player to help make decisions on the field, then the question is why Robertson doesn't have faith in the current crop of non-retired senior ABs to do this.
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@Victor-Meldrew my concern with Razor supposedly 'chasing' Whitelock, is the message it sends to the next crop of players.
As above, if he's the best, fine, but he would need to be clearly the best.
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The concern for me is Robertson built his team around Richie and Sam, so him chasing them and talking about relaxing the rules for overseas players makes me think he's just going to try and implement his Crusaders game plan at test level, and believes they are best to do that for him. As I said earlier, the lack of international coaching experience may expose him - Super rugby and test rugby are so far apart these days, e.g. Richie was a superstar at Super rugby, probably the best ever, but was really just bog standard at test level as it's a different ball game.
TBH this isn't what I expected of him. I thought he was the guy that could take any team and make them greater than the sum of their parts. Starting to think Whitelock has been the brains at the Crusaders?
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
The concern for me is Robertson built his team around Richie and Sam, so him chasing them and talking about relaxing the rules for overseas players makes me think he's just going to try and implement his Crusaders game plan at test level
Or it's about our shallow depth currently at 10 and at lock.
How about we wait and see how the ABs actually play before jumping to conclusions.
We haven't even heard Razor speak about the Whitelock piece yet.
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@pakman said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Is William Harmon too old to be in the mix?
i would love it if Harmon was 3 year younger...but 29 at the start of a world cup cycle it a big call...when there are other very good options
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@pakman said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
For the scrum loving Ferners, the question is who would be the TH lock?
Patty T has never really excelled there. Lord and Vaa’i both LH. Holland there for Clan. Not sure Chch locks are candidates. Nor Canes.
Some of the locks have switched depending on who they are playing with. For example, Whitelock was the LH lock when playing with Retallick but moved to TH lock when paired with Barrett. IIRC Vaa'i was on the TH side and Lord on the LH side against the Highlanders. I didn't take much notice with Barrett this year (in combination with Strange).
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Victor-Meldrew my concern with Razor supposedly 'chasing' Whitelock, is the message it sends to the next crop of players.
Maybe it's a lack of confidence or nerves from getting the big gig and wanting a sense of familiarity. Understandable.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
e.g. Richie was a superstar at Super rugby, probably the best ever, but was really just bog standard at test level as it's a different ball game.
Or razor is the coach that could make him a superstar at test level. Bit early to be slinging arrows yet.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
e.g. Richie was a superstar at Super rugby, probably the best ever, but was really just bog standard at test level as it's a different ball game.
what? this is literally the first time ive heard anyone suggest Richie was only average at test level....is this a thing?
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
If Robertson wants SW in a coaching/mentoring role, then great. If he wants him back as a player to help make decisions on the field, then the question is why Robertson doesn't have faith in the current crop of non-retired senior ABs to do this.
Not sure it's about not having faith etc, more about using all tools in your box? Ti me tests this year and next are as important as WC, and I think he has to be prepared to do whatever he has to win tests. See I not into this he 35 so no good anymore, same as I not into the other side of the coin.
