RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks
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@BerniesCorner said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@PecoTrain There's no way a human as a ref in that environment can get all the calls right. A lot of people forget that fact.
@BerniesCorner I accept that and I also accept that to win you have to try and score enough points to take the ref out of the equation.
Doing that is easy to say but very difficult to do when you have had players sent off. Scoring points when the ref and his assistants sit back and let the TMO make the calls for ~50% of the game isn't missing a few calls.
Barnes and the TMO shit the bed with the Frizell YC after 3 minutes - pulling an obscure rule out of the rulebook seemingly because a South African player got injured. The reverse camera angle appeared to show Frizell getting out of the way of Kitshoffs forearm and there was forearm on head contact from Kitshoff albeit it slight and probably only worthy of a penalty given Frizells avoidence.
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@His-Bobness said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Billy-Tell Sure, the RWC brings in big TV revenues. But most of the English clubs are financially insolvent. Both NZ and SA rugby are running significant losses. As for Australian Rugby, the last rites are close to being read.
The RWC is a separate commercial entity which extracts every last dollar from its many stakeholders and which jealously protects its privileged status. If I were a private equity manager, I’d look at disruption.
Professional men’s rugby has major financial issues which need to be tackled
London Irish is just the latest big loser in top level rugby.
This is not due to lack of fan base. It’s due to wages being too high. Unfortunately uk and France allowed clubs to take over who then get into bidding wars for players. If you pay piutau £1’000’000 season that’s too much. NZ then has to up its wages to compete with the UK and so on.
Rugby is like any sport. There are excellent games and rubbish ones.
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@PecoTrain said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@BerniesCorner said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@PecoTrain There's no way a human as a ref in that environment can get all the calls right. A lot of people forget that fact.
@BerniesCorner I accept that and I also accept that to win you have to try and score enough points to take the ref out of the equation.
Doing that is easy to say but very difficult to do when you have had players sent off. Scoring points when the ref and his assistants sit back and let the TMO make the calls for ~50% of the game isn't missing a few calls.
Barnes and the TMO shit the bed with the Frizell YC after 3 minutes - pulling an obscure rule out of the rulebook seemingly because a South African player got injured. The reverse camera angle appeared to show Frizell getting out of the way of Kitshoffs forearm and there was forearm on head contact from Kitshoff albeit it slight and probably only worthy of a penalty given Frizells avoidence.
I wouldn't have penalised Kitzhoff or Frizell. It was a rugby accident. Shannon wasn't even looking at Bongo, his attention was on Kitzhoff
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There's f all difference between SA, ABs, Ireland and France.
England are determined but limited.
Australia has got 4 years to sort their shite out. I look forward to that. I miss them -
@Billy-Tell Agree. But whether it’s lack of bums on seats or greedy management discounting imagined future profits by paying excessively for players today, it adds up to the same commercial problem - diminishing margins and a cadre of club owners squeezing the lemon too hard for short-term profit. I still think the game is buggered. I predict the new global competition will be a failure, simply because WR is doing what it always does - fattening the calf at the centre and starving everybody else to keep its cadre of pigs at the trough in business and first class airfares. I stand by what I said. Rugby Union is ripe for a disruptor to simplify the rules, reward endeavour and creativity and market the game more broadly. As it stands, they’re playing at being a mass market sport with a mass market budget in a narrowcast universe.
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@His-Bobness said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Billy-Tell Agree. But whether it’s lack of bums on seats or greedy management discounting imagined future profits by paying excessively for players today, it adds up to the same commercial problem - diminishing margins and a cadre of club owners squeezing the lemon too hard for short-term profit. I still think the game is buggered. I predict the new global competition will be a failure, simply because WR is doing what it always does - fattening the calf at the centre and starving everybody else to keep its cadre of pigs at the trough in business and first class airfares. I stand by what I said. Rugby Union is ripe for a disruptor to simplify the rules, reward endeavour and creativity and market the game more broadly. As it stands, they’re playing at being a mass market sport with a mass market budget in a narrowcast universe.
Where's Kerry Packer when you need him
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@canefan Actually you are right. Avoidance. Had a big impact on the game. No one in the pub noticed.
Did the TMO see it at the time? No one will ever know. -
@His-Bobness said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Billy-Tell Agree. But whether it’s lack of bums on seats or greedy management discounting imagined future profits by paying excessively for players today, it adds up to the same commercial problem - diminishing margins and a cadre of club owners squeezing the lemon too hard for short-term profit. I still think the game is buggered. I predict the new global competition will be a failure, simply because WR is doing what it always does - fattening the calf at the centre and starving everybody else to keep its cadre of pigs at the trough in business and first class airfares. I stand by what I said. Rugby Union is ripe for a disruptor to simplify the rules, reward endeavour and creativity and market the game more broadly. As it stands, they’re playing at being a mass market sport with a mass market budget in a narrowcast universe.
If rugby was more popular in Australia, which it will never be, then a SH breakaway including Japan, Argentina, the Pacific etc would be possible. But NZ can’t go it alone. I thought Portugal showed how rugby should be played tbh. They were my highlight from this RWC, aside the surprise of NZ actually being ok.
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@MN5 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@pakman said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@MN5 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@pakman said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Boks are pretty mediocre team. Certainly not in top two in world, maybe not in top three.
Result is like a sporting quiz oddity.
I’d like Foz to come out and say that he thought we were a notch ahead of them tonight, but sport is an odd thing and sometime the lesser team ends up with its name on the trophy.
Fucking well played ABs. Bloody proud of you.
I’m not sure how you can say this about a team that has won three incredibly tight games in a row
I was here and their shortcoming were very apparent. If the French game had been reffed properly they would have lost it, and they were hugely assisted tonight by official rulings and still only finished a point ahead.
So, for me, just a sporting aberration.
That’s what makes the game so beguiling.
…..and if the ABs had kicked better, Cane had tackled better and whatever else they might have won it.
This post comes across ever so slightly like sour grapes you’d expect on FB
Fair call. I’m not disputing the result, and nor that Boks are tremendous team.
But the fact is that arbitrary TMO interventions were the difference between an impotent win and a serious loss for them.
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academic question but if SF moves out of his way to avoid a forearm and collapses on a bok (not seeing him) is he still liable for a yellow card? As
a. not targeting limbs (eyes elsewhere) and
b. mitigating circumstancesalthough Barnes did not seem to consider a. anyway.
Oh well, just an academic question. Personally I thought SF might not have entered the gate/moving offside and the clearing was a bit risky position-wise anyway.
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@BerniesCorner said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@canefan Actually you are right. Avoidance. Had a big impact on the game. No one in the pub noticed.
Did the TMO see it at the time? No one will ever know.He was too busy trying to see foul play when there probably was none. Contrast the injury to Tupaea, that Aussie grub looked for his leg then pounced
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@pakman said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@MN5 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@pakman said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@MN5 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@pakman said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Boks are pretty mediocre team. Certainly not in top two in world, maybe not in top three.
Result is like a sporting quiz oddity.
I’d like Foz to come out and say that he thought we were a notch ahead of them tonight, but sport is an odd thing and sometime the lesser team ends up with its name on the trophy.
Fucking well played ABs. Bloody proud of you.
I’m not sure how you can say this about a team that has won three incredibly tight games in a row
I was here and their shortcoming were very apparent. If the French game had been reffed properly they would have lost it, and they were hugely assisted tonight by official rulings and still only finished a point ahead.
So, for me, just a sporting aberration.
That’s what makes the game so beguiling.
…..and if the ABs had kicked better, Cane had tackled better and whatever else they might have won it.
This post comes across ever so slightly like sour grapes you’d expect on FB
Fair call. I’m not disputing the result, and nor that Boks are tremendous team.
But the fact is that arbitrary TMO interventions were the difference between an impotent win and a serious loss for them.
That’s tournament rugby nowadays, and I’m not a fan.
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@pakman said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@pakman said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@MN5 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@pakman said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@MN5 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@pakman said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Boks are pretty mediocre team. Certainly not in top two in world, maybe not in top three.
Result is like a sporting quiz oddity.
I’d like Foz to come out and say that he thought we were a notch ahead of them tonight, but sport is an odd thing and sometime the lesser team ends up with its name on the trophy.
Fucking well played ABs. Bloody proud of you.
I’m not sure how you can say this about a team that has won three incredibly tight games in a row
I was here and their shortcoming were very apparent. If the French game had been reffed properly they would have lost it, and they were hugely assisted tonight by official rulings and still only finished a point ahead.
So, for me, just a sporting aberration.
That’s what makes the game so beguiling.
…..and if the ABs had kicked better, Cane had tackled better and whatever else they might have won it.
This post comes across ever so slightly like sour grapes you’d expect on FB
Fair call. I’m not disputing the result, and nor that Boks are tremendous team.
But the fact is that arbitrary TMO interventions were the difference between an impotent win and a serious loss for them.
That’s tournament rugby nowadays, and I’m not a fan.
Maybe there needs to be a world test championship, as in cricket
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@Billy-Tell Yes, Portugal showed the way. They were playing like the ABs. Look at this way. Which country do the minnows and kids in backyards aspire to be? Where do the dreams reside? The way the Erasmus-coached Boks play or the way the ABs play? Which side inspires the advertisers?
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@His-Bobness said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Billy-Tell Yes, Portugal showed the way. They were playing like the ABs. Look at this way. Which country do the minnows and kids in backyards aspire to be? Where do the dreams reside? The way the Erasmus-coached Boks play or the way the ABs play? Which side inspires the advertisers?
I'm sure there will be some nations who will aim to replicate SA. It's basic, but it's winning rugby, and the rules are designed to help right now
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@canefan said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Billy-Tell said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@mofitzy_ said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Billy-Tell
Have you? Serious question.
Because I doubt the viewing figures were fantastic past the QFs. Also doubt any neutral non-rugby fan will be excited about another game like that.I don’t. But then I’m not trying to argue that rugby is losing fans in droves. It’s not really a sport that attracts the casual viewer at the best of times as the laws are quite arcane. And those who follow rugby will continue to do so. As noted, the NH doesn’t mind these 10-man rugby style games and they never take kindly to Australia and NZ trying to make it more of a spectacle.
Rugby is ripe for a Kerry Packer style disruption
Ironically the last one occurred just after another heartbreaking loss for us in 1995. I really hope we see changes, but it's infuriating that this shit has been going on for a few years now it takes a RWC debacle for anything to happen.
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This WC had tremendous fan support.
The biggest shiteness to this world cup was the draw. No argument can counter that. -
@BerniesCorner said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
This WC had tremendous fan support.
The biggest shiteness to this world cup was the draw. No argument can counter that.If we ignore results and just go for entertaining, competitive games then I don't buy the argument that the draw was shite.
It was shite for a couple of teams but it resulted in genuinely enjoyable rugby throughout the tournament rather than insipid pool games, a handful of blowout quarters and then a week of decent rugby for the semis and finals. Instead we got maybe a dozen very competitive pool games, 4 brilliant quarter finals, 1 competitive semi and a blow out and two very competitive games for the finals weekend.
I'm in two minds over the length of the tournament - I think it worked well for both players and casual fans to have weekend games. I accept that those following start to finish ended up having a lot of time to fill between games but I'm not sure that is World Rugby's problem.
We talk about wanting Rugby to expand but don't like it when it delivers a tournament that genuinely involves more countries.
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The counter argument to that is a tournament should build to a crescendo. It didn't.
It shouldn't peak in the quarters. -
So had a Sunday session with some mates (half Kiwis half not giving a shit about rugby Aussies and foreigners) and was a good way to wind down.
Except, I made the silly mistake of watching the game again once I got home. Now I'm just angry. I've gone from it was a good game, we didn't get the rub of the green, but probably didn't impact the game too much ... to ... if I see an Englishman in the street I want to punch the fucker, that all English ref team fucked us even in the last seconds of the game.
Hopefully when I sober up again tomorrow I'll be chill again.
