Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East
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I normally cringe when people are killed and internally express horror/outrage at their deaths - and I try to see both sides of the Palestinian/ Israeli issue and know that no side is perfect
But when I see the images and videos of Hamas' actions, I find it increasingly hard to stop myself thinking like I did about ISIS - kill as many of the fuckers as possible
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Believe it or not, this is from an NHS Neurologist....hopefully she won't be for much longer and her employment will disappear as fast as her twitter account.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
@antipodean said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
The marvellous multicultural benefits of rampant third world migration?
Can speak for Oz, but in the UK the biggest supporters of Hamas (to the point of refusing to condemn the attacks) have been some senior Labour & ex-Labour politicians and Green MSPs.
The police here have been surprisingly swift to point out that anyone publicly praising the attacks is breaking the law and will be arrested.
Meanwhile 'NSW police warned Sydney’s Jewish community to avoid the Opera House on Monday as its sails were lit with the Israeli flag to commemorate those killed and kidnapped by Hamas, after green-lighting a pro-Palestinian march to the site.'
They actually arrested a bloke with a rolled up Israel flag and confiscated it.
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Way different here. Is Hamas a terrorist organisation in Oz?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/09/uni-societies-social-media-supporting-hamas-israel/
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
Believe it or not, this is from an NHS Neurologist....hopefully she won't be for much longer and her employment will disappear as fast as her twitter account.
yeah thats just abysmal. For all of Israel's complicity in what has happened there. Innocent civilians (from either side) don't deserve to be slaughtered for just being at the wrong place at the wrong time.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
@antipodean said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
The marvellous multicultural benefits of rampant third world migration?
Can speak for Oz, but in the UK the biggest supporters of Hamas (to the point of refusing to condemn the attacks) have been some senior Labour & ex-Labour politicians and Green MSPs.
And possibly Sonny Bill Williams
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
and I try to see both sides of the Palestinian/ Israeli issue
Thats good to read. Most don't seem to.
And just to be clear for the likes of yourself I'm in no way justifying or supporting this action. Quite the opposite. As these deaths will be revenged 10 times or more. Just more pointless killing because of hate and fear.
And it's not all Palestinians. Most suffer terrible conditions (from what I've read) imposed by Israel and cope with life as best they can. Without lashing back much.
This action will just mean more deaths and killing of mostly innocent people. Not just now but in future years
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@voodoo said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
Qatar generally gets a pretty free ride internationally when you consider all the support it provides to Hamas and others
Well, you have to take into account that they put on a great soccer World Cup!!!
And as Westerners, we will overlook all evil for the sake of a good game!!
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@Frank said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
@voodoo said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
Qatar generally gets a pretty free ride internationally when you consider all the support it provides to Hamas and others
Well, you have to take into account that they put on a great soccer World Cup!!!
And as Westerners, we will overlook all evil for the sake of a good game!!
And Millions in kick backs and bribes.
Cant forget those. -
@Frank said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
@voodoo said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
Qatar generally gets a pretty free ride internationally when you consider all the support it provides to Hamas and others
Well, you have to take into account that they put on a great soccer World Cup!!!
And as Westerners, we will overlook all evil for the sake of a good game!!
And aren't Saudi Arabia the #1 state sponsor of Islamic terrorism? And yet they are very much in bed with America, an interesting juxtaposition. I was not aware of the USA giving a shit ton of cash to Iran. Funny how the world works at the international political level
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@canefan said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
@Frank said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
@voodoo said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
Qatar generally gets a pretty free ride internationally when you consider all the support it provides to Hamas and others
Well, you have to take into account that they put on a great soccer World Cup!!!
And as Westerners, we will overlook all evil for the sake of a good game!!
And aren't Saudi Arabia the #1 state sponsor of Islamic terrorism? And yet they are very much in bed with America, an interesting juxtaposition. I was not aware of the USA giving a shit ton of cash to Iran. Funny how the world works at the international political level
My wife worked at an Iranian bank in City of London few years ago - big part of her daily task was buying and selling US Dollars
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@Winger said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
and I try to see both sides of the Palestinian/ Israeli issue
Thats good to read. Most don't seem to.
And just to be clear for the likes of yourself I'm in no way justifying or supporting this action. Quite the opposite. As these deaths will be revenged 10 times or more. Just more pointless killing because of hate and fear.
And it's not all Palestinians. Most suffer terrible conditions (from what I've read) imposed by Hamas
Fixed that for you.
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the footage on twitter is sickening, the arseholes celebrating it in front of embassy's / Opera Houses can get to fuck. Interesting that those people who protested 'Let women speak' events around the world, accusing women of being 'literal nazis' haven't bothered to show up and shout at people screaming 'gas the jews' in Sydney. I've had to come off twitter as its so disgusting at the moment, reading emails from headmasters of Jewish schools in London suggesting that children can come to school without a blazer if they would like to prevent them from being identified is soul destroying. What the fuck is wrong with people?
Israel will react with horrendous force, hard to see a way out of this for anyone.
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@canefan said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
@Frank said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
@voodoo said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
Qatar generally gets a pretty free ride internationally when you consider all the support it provides to Hamas and others
Well, you have to take into account that they put on a great soccer World Cup!!!
And as Westerners, we will overlook all evil for the sake of a good game!!
And aren't Saudi Arabia the #1 state sponsor of Islamic terrorism? And yet they are very much in bed with America, an interesting juxtaposition. I was not aware of the USA giving a shit ton of cash to Iran. Funny how the world works at the international political level
If the US stopped fucking meddling in other people's business, things would be a lot simpler
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@MiketheSnow said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
If the US stopped fucking meddling in other people's business, things would be a lot simpler
I am sadly convinced powerful people in the US think the world wants to be like them and to be converted by them. In terms of the last century of foreign politics, I don't think they have been very effective. On the other hand (and shoot me down all the anti Hegelians out there) but every time a country becomes powerful (Russia, China) they seem to go along the same path as the US. Maybe Japan was the exception but it seems to be human nature.
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I've spent a bit of time trying to educate myself about this, as I simply can't understand why the left are so pro Palestine. I've started off with a point of view of absolutely no skin in the game so completely neutral.
This article from the BBC is quite good:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-44124396
Bloomberg have a good one too, but due to their paywall, I couldn't see it when I went back in.
When it comes to understanding why the left are so pro palestine, this a decent read. Although it's a bit of a word salad in places, it explores the underlying basis and argues points of view from different perspectives:
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/north-africa-west-asia/singling-out-israel-perspective-from-left/
In summary my positions are now this - happy for some debate/disagreement and to learn more.
- This situation is more likely to get worse than better. US / UK staunch support for Israel against a majority Muslim population is a simple take which explains most of it.
- UK were influential in creation of Israel, but the US are now the main supporters. Lots of influential Jews in US politics means the US support will be staunch and unwavering
- Hamas / Palestinians are not the same thing and should never be viewed as such. Hamas are a militant group which claims to represent Palestine but essentially commit atrocities which only help to continue oppression of the Palestinian people
- Israel are far from innocent in this. Yes, the latest attack by Hamas has been largely civilian focused but there have been plenty of Palestinian collateral damage by Israeli forces. It would be naive to suggest none of these were on purpose.
So, to understand why the left are so pro Palestine? A lot of it is anti US / Conservatives using the underlying premise of apartheid. Truth is you have to pretty selective of the media you read to hold such an extreme view.
I honestly don't see a resolution, ever.
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I think point 3 is key
Hamas in my very limited understanding are the Taliban
They're in charge but don't represent the wishes of the majority
But if you go against them you're fucked
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@MiketheSnow said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
I think point 3 is key
Hamas in my very limited understanding are the Taliban
They're in charge but don't represent the wishes of the majority
But if you go against them you're fucked
They voted them in. I understand not everyone voted for them, of course, but they were elected.
I’m not quite sure what voters expected given the policy (to the best of my knowledge) has always been the destruction of Israel.
https://www.npr.org/2006/01/29/5176856/hamas-victory-divides-palestinians