NPC 2023
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Burke
McClutchie has been on fire this season, guiding the Magpies to a few wins that didn't look likely.
Surprisingly he doesn't have a SR contract as of now.
Has not re signed with MP yet, maybe he was hanging out for a contract somewhere else.Not really surprising, sometimes NZ rugby just decides they don't like a player. He could be as. good as Fergus Burke and no NZ team will pick him up (in saying that I hope I'm wrong).
Playing devils advocate here, could there be other factors at play? Was mentioned somewhat in gest that the whole Shield-gate may be an explanation as to why a lot of Hawke's Bay players have been contracted by the NZ sides in the past.
That's some reaching to be honest, aside from McClutchie the home grown players worthy of Super contracts have them and we have a lot of PIs and fringe players with contracts for non NZ teams too.
I know you're only playing devils advocate, but how on earth would what happened on the weekend effect the historical selection of HB players?
That is what I'm talking about though. There are a stack of Hawke's Bay players who went to MP after largely being unwanted by the other NZ sides (Presumably)... then you add in Cridge & Parsons, Hintz, Sapsford. There are a lot of handy guys, who I think it has been widely questioned why they don't have Super Rugby contracts. It isn't a criticism for me, a more of a, makes you think.
As for the historical element, it doesn't take a genius to workout that that celebration wasn't a one-off. It's an attitude to alcohol, not necessarily a Hawke's Bay thing at all, there are plenty of players who have ruined their careers because they can't manage themselves on the booze.
I guess my point was, it could be an explanation, because there has been a rotation of crap 10s going round Super Rugby, and McClutchie despite to the naked eye being one of the better 10s in the NPC has never got a look in.
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Burke
McClutchie has been on fire this season, guiding the Magpies to a few wins that didn't look likely.
Surprisingly he doesn't have a SR contract as of now.
Has not re signed with MP yet, maybe he was hanging out for a contract somewhere else.Not really surprising, sometimes NZ rugby just decides they don't like a player. He could be as. good as Fergus Burke and no NZ team will pick him up (in saying that I hope I'm wrong).
Playing devils advocate here, could there be other factors at play? Was mentioned somewhat in gest that the whole Shield-gate may be an explanation as to why a lot of Hawke's Bay players have been contracted by the NZ sides in the past.
That's some reaching to be honest, aside from McClutchie the home grown players worthy of Super contracts have them and we have a lot of PIs and fringe players with contracts for non NZ teams too.
I know you're only playing devils advocate, but how on earth would what happened on the weekend effect the historical selection of HB players?
That is what I'm talking about though. There are a stack of Hawke's Bay players who went to MP after largely being unwanted by the other NZ sides (Presumably)... then you add in Cridge & Parsons, Hintz, Sapsford. There are a lot of handy guys, who I think it has been widely questioned why they don't have Super Rugby contracts. It isn't a criticism for me, a more of a, makes you think.
As for the historical element, it doesn't take a genius to workout that that celebration wasn't a one-off. It's an attitude to alcohol, not necessarily a Hawke's Bay thing at all, there are plenty of players who have ruined their careers because they can't manage themselves on the booze.
That last paragraph is a bit of B/S, it's essentially tarring a whole province due to the odd players. Should Ta$man all be tarred as pieces of shit assaulters because of the Tongan fuckwit? Wonder how that twat didn't ruin his career because he couldn't handle his booze? Same with Reece, can't handle his booze, assaults his missus gets handed an AB jersey. Lets tar all of Canterbury with that brush. Or Wellington as the actual cokeheads due to Reilly? If HB players are missing out due to alcohol then the double standard in NZ rugby is really fucked up.
But TBH, of those players listed only Cridge seems to be really overlooked and he's had a lot of injuries. Parsons is only a semi pro player these days. I've never thought of Hintz as being close to Super level.
A lot of the PIs were mostly ineligible for NZ sides because they were PIs and had often been overseas playing.
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Burke
McClutchie has been on fire this season, guiding the Magpies to a few wins that didn't look likely.
Surprisingly he doesn't have a SR contract as of now.
Has not re signed with MP yet, maybe he was hanging out for a contract somewhere else.Not really surprising, sometimes NZ rugby just decides they don't like a player. He could be as. good as Fergus Burke and no NZ team will pick him up (in saying that I hope I'm wrong).
Playing devils advocate here, could there be other factors at play? Was mentioned somewhat in gest that the whole Shield-gate may be an explanation as to why a lot of Hawke's Bay players have been contracted by the NZ sides in the past.
That's some reaching to be honest, aside from McClutchie the home grown players worthy of Super contracts have them and we have a lot of PIs and fringe players with contracts for non NZ teams too.
I know you're only playing devils advocate, but how on earth would what happened on the weekend effect the historical selection of HB players?
That is what I'm talking about though. There are a stack of Hawke's Bay players who went to MP after largely being unwanted by the other NZ sides (Presumably)... then you add in Cridge & Parsons, Hintz, Sapsford. There are a lot of handy guys, who I think it has been widely questioned why they don't have Super Rugby contracts. It isn't a criticism for me, a more of a, makes you think.
As for the historical element, it doesn't take a genius to workout that that celebration wasn't a one-off. It's an attitude to alcohol, not necessarily a Hawke's Bay thing at all, there are plenty of players who have ruined their careers because they can't manage themselves on the booze.
That last paragraph is a bit of B/S, it's essentially tarring a whole province due to the odd players. Should Ta$man all be tarred as pieces of shit assaulters because of the Tongan fuckwit? Wonder how that twat didn't ruin his career because he couldn't handle his booze? Same with Reece, can't handle his booze, assaults his missus gets handed an AB jersey. Lets tar all of Canterbury with that brush. Or Wellington as the actual cokeheads due to Reilly? If HB players are missing out due to alcohol then the double standard in NZ rugby is really fucked up.
But TBH, of those players listed only Cridge seems to be really overlooked and he's had a lot of injuries. Parsons is only a semi pro player these days. I've never thought of Hintz as being close to Super level.
A lot of the PIs were mostly ineligible for NZ sides because they were PIs and had often been overseas playing.
I'm not tarring all of the players at all, I quite literally said it isn't a unique issue to Hawke's Bay... but at this rather extreme mid-season blowout, 12 players were present. As a fan, are you not a little bit disappointed by that? You'll never know exactly who was present, but you could probably have a good guess, and the majority of them don't have Super Rugby deals.
It is known that in his younger years anyway, that Fakatava had to be rescued from Castle St on more than one occasion...
I've always wondered why more players just don't drink during the season.
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Burke
McClutchie has been on fire this season, guiding the Magpies to a few wins that didn't look likely.
Surprisingly he doesn't have a SR contract as of now.
Has not re signed with MP yet, maybe he was hanging out for a contract somewhere else.Not really surprising, sometimes NZ rugby just decides they don't like a player. He could be as. good as Fergus Burke and no NZ team will pick him up (in saying that I hope I'm wrong).
Playing devils advocate here, could there be other factors at play? Was mentioned somewhat in gest that the whole Shield-gate may be an explanation as to why a lot of Hawke's Bay players have been contracted by the NZ sides in the past.
That's some reaching to be honest, aside from McClutchie the home grown players worthy of Super contracts have them and we have a lot of PIs and fringe players with contracts for non NZ teams too.
I know you're only playing devils advocate, but how on earth would what happened on the weekend effect the historical selection of HB players?
That is what I'm talking about though. There are a stack of Hawke's Bay players who went to MP after largely being unwanted by the other NZ sides (Presumably)... then you add in Cridge & Parsons, Hintz, Sapsford. There are a lot of handy guys, who I think it has been widely questioned why they don't have Super Rugby contracts. It isn't a criticism for me, a more of a, makes you think.
As for the historical element, it doesn't take a genius to workout that that celebration wasn't a one-off. It's an attitude to alcohol, not necessarily a Hawke's Bay thing at all, there are plenty of players who have ruined their careers because they can't manage themselves on the booze.
That last paragraph is a bit of B/S, it's essentially tarring a whole province due to the odd players. Should Ta$man all be tarred as pieces of shit assaulters because of the Tongan fuckwit? Wonder how that twat didn't ruin his career because he couldn't handle his booze? Same with Reece, can't handle his booze, assaults his missus gets handed an AB jersey. Lets tar all of Canterbury with that brush. Or Wellington as the actual cokeheads due to Reilly? If HB players are missing out due to alcohol then the double standard in NZ rugby is really fucked up.
But TBH, of those players listed only Cridge seems to be really overlooked and he's had a lot of injuries. Parsons is only a semi pro player these days. I've never thought of Hintz as being close to Super level.
A lot of the PIs were mostly ineligible for NZ sides because they were PIs and had often been overseas playing.
I'm not tarring all of the players at all, I quite literally said it isn't a unique issue to Hawke's Bay... but at this rather extreme mid-season blowout, 12 players were present. As a fan, are you not a little bit disappointed by that? You'll never know exactly who was present, but you could probably have a good guess, and the majority of them don't have Super Rugby deals.
It is known that in his younger years anyway, that Fakatava had to be rescued from Castle St on more than one occasion...
I've always wondered why more players just don't drink during the season.
I didn't say you were tarring all those players at all, I was responding to your suggestion that HB is being tarred by the NZ rugby community.
Also, NZ is a small place, we all know of players doing stupid stuff on the drink.
Am I disappointed it got out of hand (to put it mildly), of course, they're idiots, but is it the worst act in the history or the world as the moral media seem to be making it out to be? No. Do I think there is hypocrisy in NZ rugby, hell yes, and the cases I mentioned above highlight that.
Do I think it has anything to do with the Magpies being overlooked by the Canes, no, the Canes are just assholes. To repeat, aside from McClutchie, and the Canes in general, I don't think Magpies players are missing out - maybe Parsons back in the day.
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I can't believe I'm agreeing with @Nepia here but I also think McClutchie has been the best 10 in the comp. Fergus Burke has been okay but I feel McClutchie has guided HB to some important wins and he just looks to have matured into a quality general. I'd prefer the Canes sign him over Morgan, but Morgan is already signed for 2024 unfortunately.
@frugby I agree with most of your line-up but I would have Caleb Delany in there as one of the locks. He's arguably been Wellington's best this year and he was very impressive against the Magpies the other day winning three line-outs against the throw.
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Hard for NZR to use the financial stick and not cull Wellington - I mean would they be defending champs and Ranfurly Shield holders if they were financially prudent? So naturally NZR will have to come up with some other B/S criteria to get their own way. But given their governance review in combination with their lack of marketing of the NPC they clearly are going to do what they want to do not matter what.
As I said in another thread, they want NZR to follow a more business approach, rather than a rugby approach, which winds up like Oz with a wingnut like Kim Jong McLennan in charge ... and we've all seen what happens when you do that.
Also, kind of typical of NZR that this news leaks after a good AB performance. Can't have happy fans for too long.
@Steven-Harris said in NPC 2023:
Gotta say though , there might be a revolution if NZ Rugby decided to tread this path
NZR & franchise bases v provinces Civil War.
The NZRFU have truely done a shit job running the NPC as a competition. The teams are performing well, lots of close games and upsets. As for comments the standards have dropped, I think that’s wrong and just looking at the past with rose tinted glasses.
kind of agree...i dont think the standard will have dropped a little...BUT...thats because we dont get AB's playing in the NPC, hell, they miss several super games now days
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@Kiwiwomble said in NPC 2023:
Hard for NZR to use the financial stick and not cull Wellington - I mean would they be defending champs and Ranfurly Shield holders if they were financially prudent? So naturally NZR will have to come up with some other B/S criteria to get their own way. But given their governance review in combination with their lack of marketing of the NPC they clearly are going to do what they want to do not matter what.
As I said in another thread, they want NZR to follow a more business approach, rather than a rugby approach, which winds up like Oz with a wingnut like Kim Jong McLennan in charge ... and we've all seen what happens when you do that.
Also, kind of typical of NZR that this news leaks after a good AB performance. Can't have happy fans for too long.
@Steven-Harris said in NPC 2023:
Gotta say though , there might be a revolution if NZ Rugby decided to tread this path
NZR & franchise bases v provinces Civil War.
The NZRFU have truely done a shit job running the NPC as a competition. The teams are performing well, lots of close games and upsets. As for comments the standards have dropped, I think that’s wrong and just looking at the past with rose tinted glasses.
kind of agree...i dont think the standard will have dropped a little...BUT...thats because we dont get AB's playing in the NPC, hell, they miss several super games now days
The squads do seem to be younger, but the current Wellington team would be one of the strongest in recent memory for example.
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NZR haven’t officially released the date or time of the decider on the draw, but Stuff understands it will be a 2.05pm kickoff, either next Saturday or Sunday, the day depending on if Wellington make it through or not.
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I'm not sure I completely agree with the XV chosen. Boshier was the best Taranaki loose forward.
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@Bovidae I don't agree with the XV chosen, particularly 8 and 10. Call me one-eyed, but Devan Flanders was better than Sowakula (who didn't even play all his games at 8 & I lost count of the number of times he knocked the ball on) and - however promising Jacomb is - McClutchie is a much more rounded first five and also had a hand in many tries, this season. He was easily the best 10 in the competition, probably followed by Burke.
I'd probably pick Dom Bird over Tom Parsons, but I'm not sure Bird played mostly 4 or 5. The chosen props are questionable, too. Numia was great in SR, but quiet in NPC.
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@Stargazer said in NPC 2023:
@Bovidae I don't agree with the XV chosen, particularly 8 and 10. Call me one-eyed, but Devan Flanders was better than Sowakula (who didn't even play all his games at 8 & I lost count of the number of times he knocked the ball on) and - however promising Jacomb is - McClutchie is a much more rounded first five and also had a hand in many tries, this season. He was easily the best 10 in the competition, probably followed by Burke.
I'd probably pick Dom Bird over Tom Parsons, but I'm not sure Bird played mostly 4 or 5. The chosen props are questionable, too. Numia was great in SR, but quiet in NPC.
Whether there should have been more HB players is debatable, but totally agree r.e Jacomb and Sowakula. Stinks of recency bias... did Jacomb even play 200 minutes?
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@Stargazer I also thought Caleb Delany was the best and most consistent Wellington Lion this year - would pick him over Bird. He was exceptional at lineout time and keeps getting better the more he plays.
I agree with Flanders aswell. I'm picking both Delany and Flanders to have big Super campaigns in 2024.
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did Jacomb even play 200 minutes?
Not sure if this is accurate:
448mins, 5 starts & 3 from the bench
You can drill into each game to see who subbed on for who. Can't see any obvious errors
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did Jacomb even play 200 minutes?
Not sure if this is accurate:
448mins, 5 starts & 3 from the bench
You can drill into each game to see who subbed on for who. Can't see any obvious errors
Definitely incorrect for those three starts before the final. Was taken off (bizarrely) really early in the second half v Canterbury, and don't believe he played right through in the other either.
Probably over 300 minutes then, but I wouldn't have even thought he hit 400, meaning he barely played a third of available minutes.
