RWC Week 3: Wales v Australia
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@GibbonRib said in RWC Week 3: Wales v Australia:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC Week 3: Wales v Australia:
@GibbonRib said in RWC Week 3: Wales v Australia:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC Week 3: Wales v Australia:
@GibbonRib said in RWC Week 3: Wales v Australia:
My point is that using the questions "how many teams do we have the cattle for" and "how many teams do we have the $ for" is not a good way to determine how many teams we should have.
A better way is to ask "how many teams could we have the cattle / $ to support in a long-term, sustainable way". And being able to even try to answer that question depends entirely on having a credible long-term strategy, and a competent administration able to implement it.
Suppose we say that, at the moment, Aus can support 3 teams. So we cut 2. Interest and development in Perth/Melbs dies, maybe more players leave for overseas because of the reduced $, sponsorship dwindles. Now the number of Super Rugby level teams we can support is 2, so we cut the Brumbies. Eventually we can support 1, and then 0.
Perhaps a good credible strategy would show that Aus can eventaully support 4 teams, or perhaps it will say 2 or 3 or 5. Whatever it is, the ARU need to know what the target state is (worried that this starting to sound like Plank's corporate wanktalk now) so they can work out how to get there.
Maybe they will figure out that whatever the end goal is, it's not compatible with Super Rugby, or maybe they'll say we don't have the money to get there. But you've got to know (as far as it's possible to know) so that they can make smart choices.
The current plan of knifing teams, resurrecting teams, replace the coach & repeat isn't ever going to bring back the glory days.
What good is interest and development in Perth or Melbourne if the game is dying in its strongholds? No one can look at the state of the game in Aus before and after expansion and claim it improved the game. Nor can it be claimed that the game will die if it doesn't expand to other states. NRL could ditch the Storm tommorrow and continue on their merry way.
Sydney suburban rugby isn't dying because the Force and the Rebels exist. There's a tonne of problems, and there's no reason to think that axing more teams will help. Since super rugby started, the ARU have contacted (from the old club comps) then expanded then expanded again then contacted again then expanded again. Carrying on the same pattern is no more likely to fix the underlying issues than sacking Eddie Jones and replacing him with Cheika.
If axing teams will allow scant resources and playing stocks to be focussed on areas where the game has some kind of stronghold then axing more teams in cities where people largely don't give a shit would make a difference. Success on the field is a massive factor when competing in this market and that's pretty bloody difficult if the talent is diluted to such an extent.
The problem is that people don't give a shit about rugby anywhere in Australia any more. Adding a few of the Rebels best players to the Tahs' roster isn't going turn that liner around.
People don't give a shit because they're absolute shit on the field and they're shit on the field because they barely have enough depth for 2 very successful teams let alone 5.
But back it up. What I reacted most to was this argument (forget who put it forward) that Aus rugby needs the Perth and Melbourne markets. I think the size of Melbourne was quoted. It was that kind for thinking that has gotten them in this mess.
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@Dan54 said in RWC Week 3: Wales v Australia:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC Week 3: Wales v Australia:
@Dan54 said in RWC Week 3: Wales v Australia:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC Week 3: Wales v Australia:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC Week 3: Wales v Australia:
@Crazy-Horse said in RWC Week 3: Wales v Australia:
I am half expecting us to win a quarter final and then to get spat out like a flaccid penis in a semi final we would be expected to win.
Bit like most pre-Foster RWC AB's then.
Well yes, but with the exception of the preceding losses to Argentina, home series loss to Ireland, record test loss and first ever pool game loss.
Lol mate. or the preceding holding of Bled, Freedom cup, and RCs which hasn't been done, so there always differences huh?
But to be fair we haven't mde QFs yet, so I will give you that too mate!
I you think that offsets what I listed then fair play to you.
:Hell I didn't know we were trading, was just filling in some blanks. I don't get into firsts in anything, all firsts get done sometime whether they negative or positives. I mean Henry coached ABs to first loss in QF of a WC, etc, never thought to put that on his record or his assistants Hansen and Smith or Captain McCaw. There will be a coach who will be in charge when ABs lose first test in pro level at Eden Park too, not sure I will put that on him. I in no way a Foster fan, but neither am I anti.
My entire point was that comparisons like that are stoopid. And you've just taken it up a notch.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC Week 3: Wales v Australia:
What good is interest and development in Perth or Melbourne if the game is dying in its strongholds? No one can look at the state of the game in Aus before and after expansion and claim it improved the game. Nor can it be claimed that the game will die if it doesn't expand to other states. NRL could ditch the Storm tommorrow and continue on their merry way.
Very good points Rancid, I have said at times when we get changes to laws of the game (to attract new fans) that you then risk losing a portion of old fans, and this is similar perhaps. Don't really know the answer , but in the 20 odd years I lived in Brisbane, I went to super rugby at a very good percentage of games, and watched as crowds went from a packed Ballymore and Suncorp in a hell of a lot of games to where even against the Tahs you would sit in empty stands. I not saying it was only reason, but it seemed the more Aussie teams there was, the smaller the crowds got, and really don't think the number of teams was problem, but the performance of the Wallabies seemed to get reflected.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel sorry mate I was doing the same , you actually brought in the team lost etc, and thought I would point out how silly without taking in all points. Perhaps we both pointing out how silly it is to bring these things up?
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@Dan54 said in RWC Week 3: Wales v Australia:
@Rancid-Schnitzel sorry mate I was doing the same , you actually brought in the team lost etc, and thought I would point out how silly without taking in all points. Perhaps we both pointing out how silly it is to bring these things up?
Fair enough. Let's break the wheel 🙂
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@Steven-Harris said in RWC Week 3: Wales v Australia:
I must admit I found myself with a very hollow feeling after watching the Wallabies capitulate against the Welsh this morning , a very very sad day for Rugby in this region , I felt for their supporters and the family’s of the players
Can’t believe some vitriol from some quarters as if our Rugby is on solid ground .
We need a strong Australian side , personally I think the Wallabies would under Dave Rennie despite the results we’re making progress.
It was only a year ago , the Wallabies should beaten France , lost to Ireland by 3 and beat Wales
For me it was a monumental mistake changing their coach this close to the RWC that’s on Rugby Australia
Seems as though there’s a real old boys network from a certain era with to much to say , it was interesting listening to the post match comments especially from that muppet Justin Harrison who refused to acknowledge Dave Rennie’s contribution..that told me somethingI’m actually really surprised going through Social Media at the relative lack of dickhead comments that always come out from kiwis when Australians lose something.
I mean, of course there is SOME, but on the whole things are pretty respectful.
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@MN5 said in RWC Week 3: Wales v Australia:
@Steven-Harris said in RWC Week 3: Wales v Australia:
I must admit I found myself with a very hollow feeling after watching the Wallabies capitulate against the Welsh this morning , a very very sad day for Rugby in this region , I felt for their supporters and the family’s of the players
Can’t believe some vitriol from some quarters as if our Rugby is on solid ground .
We need a strong Australian side , personally I think the Wallabies would under Dave Rennie despite the results we’re making progress.
It was only a year ago , the Wallabies should beaten France , lost to Ireland by 3 and beat Wales
For me it was a monumental mistake changing their coach this close to the RWC that’s on Rugby Australia
Seems as though there’s a real old boys network from a certain era with to much to say , it was interesting listening to the post match comments especially from that muppet Justin Harrison who refused to acknowledge Dave Rennie’s contribution..that told me somethingI’m actually really surprised going through Social Media at the relative lack of dickhead comments that always come out from kiwis when Australians lose something.
I mean, of course there is SOME, but on the whole things are pretty respectful.
Yeah most people I talk to are aware of how low it is, and painfully aware we are not immune to a similar slump - if we continue on the same trajectory - Oz 2003>23, us 2015>2035...
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@Dan54 said in RWC Week 3: Wales v Australia:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC Week 3: Wales v Australia:
What good is interest and development in Perth or Melbourne if the game is dying in its strongholds? No one can look at the state of the game in Aus before and after expansion and claim it improved the game. Nor can it be claimed that the game will die if it doesn't expand to other states. NRL could ditch the Storm tommorrow and continue on their merry way.
Very good points Rancid, I have said at times when we get changes to laws of the game (to attract new fans) that you then risk losing a portion of old fans, and this is similar perhaps. Don't really know the answer , but in the 20 odd years I lived in Brisbane, I went to super rugby at a very good percentage of games, and watched as crowds went from a packed Ballymore and Suncorp in a hell of a lot of games to where even against the Tahs you would sit in empty stands. I not saying it was only reason, but it seemed the more Aussie teams there was, the smaller the crowds got, and really don't think the number of teams was problem, but the performance of the Wallabies seemed to get reflected.
This is exactly the point. I moved back to Brisbane in 2013 when the Reds were still riding high off their Super success. Crowds for 30k plus. You could see those numbers gradually thin out to barely 10k as their performances sank like a stone. In this congested footy market you need success.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel Yep mate well as you can imagine I noticed even more from early 2000s etc, I was gobsmacked, and always said then that one of problems that you could see happening was that at times there was deflection of who was responsible. I will give an example later when I got time.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC Week 3: Wales v Australia:
This is exactly the point. I moved back to Brisbane in 2013 when the Reds were still riding high off their Super success. Crowds for 30k plus. You could see those numbers gradually thin out to barely 10k as their performances sank like a stone. In this congested footy market you need success.
I was at Olympic Park to watch the Tahs win in 2014 with 62,000 other punters.
Round 1 in 2015 Tahs v Force at the SFS - hot February day. 17k in attendance to watch them lose.
Most of the Good Rugby People were probably at the beach.
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Anyway, I've watched the first half. Some good stuff like a 10+ phase period of retention, against which Wales' defence is too good. But the decision making at times is basically what you'd expect from a team with fuck all experience.
e.g. Donaldson cuts through the line in the first quarter and has a player inside, covered by 2-3 Welsh players, and 2 Wallabies outside, covered by 1 Welsh defender. He goes inside
Neither Quade nor Foley would make that mistake. Chance to go into the lead blown.
Further along at 10-6 we win a penalty right in front. Rather than taking a sure 3, we throw a lineout to nobody.
Two Wallabies collide with team mates and fall over. Wales kick a 50-22.Tom Hooper steps around the side of a ruck and gives away the stupidest of penalties. McDermott spends a second too long clearing the ball when we're on the front foot. Petaia is... well fucking Petaia...
You get away with some of this shit when you have poor refs in the schoolyard, or you're the biggest kid on the paddock. And this is really what's wrong with the current crop: they grow up in development systems that are very narrow, and develop bad instincts because they're never pushed hard enough. Schools play maybe a dozen games a year total, and the competitions are highly variable, often inequitable, and dominated by league kids whose club is paying for their education.
It isn't just the kiddies of course: Koroibete throws a hail mary into touch. Valetini dives on a ball instead of trying to pick it up - basic knowledge of the Laws which so many players lack, but TBF many refs adjudicate with such variation it's hard to know where you stand some days.
Anyway, I'm not done being a masochist so I'll go watch the second half.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel hey mate, I'll park this and move over to the aussie rugby thread instead
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@MN5 said in RWC Week 3: Wales v Australia:
@Steven-Harris said in RWC Week 3: Wales v Australia:
I must admit I found myself with a very hollow feeling after watching the Wallabies capitulate against the Welsh this morning , a very very sad day for Rugby in this region , I felt for their supporters and the family’s of the players
Can’t believe some vitriol from some quarters as if our Rugby is on solid ground .
We need a strong Australian side , personally I think the Wallabies would under Dave Rennie despite the results we’re making progress.
It was only a year ago , the Wallabies should beaten France , lost to Ireland by 3 and beat Wales
For me it was a monumental mistake changing their coach this close to the RWC that’s on Rugby Australia
Seems as though there’s a real old boys network from a certain era with to much to say , it was interesting listening to the post match comments especially from that muppet Justin Harrison who refused to acknowledge Dave Rennie’s contribution..that told me somethingI’m actually really surprised going through Social Media at the relative lack of dickhead comments that always come out from kiwis when Australians lose something.
I mean, of course there is SOME, but on the whole things are pretty respectful.
From personal experience, this is a very bad thing.
When Wales got shit in the 80s, we didn't get any sympathy from the English, because we'd spent so many years being better than them.
When Wales got really shit in the 90s, then they started being sympathetic and saying things like "I always hope Wales do well when they're not playing England".
That's when I realised just how bad we were.
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@GibbonRib said in RWC Week 3: Wales v Australia:
@MN5 said in RWC Week 3: Wales v Australia:
@Steven-Harris said in RWC Week 3: Wales v Australia:
I must admit I found myself with a very hollow feeling after watching the Wallabies capitulate against the Welsh this morning , a very very sad day for Rugby in this region , I felt for their supporters and the family’s of the players
Can’t believe some vitriol from some quarters as if our Rugby is on solid ground .
We need a strong Australian side , personally I think the Wallabies would under Dave Rennie despite the results we’re making progress.
It was only a year ago , the Wallabies should beaten France , lost to Ireland by 3 and beat Wales
For me it was a monumental mistake changing their coach this close to the RWC that’s on Rugby Australia
Seems as though there’s a real old boys network from a certain era with to much to say , it was interesting listening to the post match comments especially from that muppet Justin Harrison who refused to acknowledge Dave Rennie’s contribution..that told me somethingI’m actually really surprised going through Social Media at the relative lack of dickhead comments that always come out from kiwis when Australians lose something.
I mean, of course there is SOME, but on the whole things are pretty respectful.
From personal experience, this is a very bad thing.
When Wales got shit in the 80s, we didn't get any sympathy from the English, because we'd spent so many years being better than them.
When Wales got really shit in the 90s, then they started being sympathetic and saying things like "I always hope Wales do well when they're not playing England".
That's when I realised just how bad we were.
The Wallabies are shit and Eddie is a dick. It should be crap meme heaven. I haven’t seen many at all.
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@Crazy-Horse said in RWC Week 3: Wales v Australia:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC Week 3: Wales v Australia:
Puts our Bledisloe dominance into perspective. It would be tempting to mock this situation if it wasn't so sad and pathetic. It would be like insulting a vegetable in a wheelchair
We didn't dominate the Bledisloe this year. Things may be worse for us than we think.
We should have lost the Bledisloe two years ago but thanks to Bernard Foley taking his time
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@NTA said in RWC Week 3: Wales v Australia:
@Nevorian said in RWC Week 3: Wales v Australia:
We should have lost the Bledisloe two years ago but thanks to Bernard Foley taking his time
And Raynal deciding to penalise rather than blow time off.
And of course deciding that Swains dog act didn't get the red card it deserved, so sliding doors etc?
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@Dan54 said in RWC Week 3: Wales v Australia:
@NTA said in RWC Week 3: Wales v Australia:
@Nevorian said in RWC Week 3: Wales v Australia:
We should have lost the Bledisloe two years ago but thanks to Bernard Foley taking his time
And Raynal deciding to penalise rather than blow time off.
And of course deciding that Swains dog act didn't get the red card it deserved, so sliding doors etc?
Stick it on the list with Underarm
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@Mattasaurus said in RWC Week 3: Wales v Australia:
Its now Super rugby's fault ..... I for one partially agree - Aussie simply has too many teams -- spreads the talent to thinly ...
I feel for Hooper standing there... poor bastard - but he spoken well and appears to be a solid bloke - he really must have taken a big steamy dump in Eddies weet a bix....
And what happens in week 2 when Hooper gets busted / has a meltdown
Correct decision to leave him at home
For his own sake
