Hurricanes v Chiefs
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bones" data-cid="602371" data-time="1470113990">
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<p>Dummy and take the outside on your own on Dmac? Maybe he summed it up perfectly but it struck me as selfish, why not look for support?</p>
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<p>Pretty certain some kind of alert will have gone off on Canes4Life's PC and he'll be on here to defend his boy and explain that it was all a ploy from Ardie to try and make the game a bit closer.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Chris B." data-cid="602290" data-time="1470101943">
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<p>Not sure quite what your point is hydro.</p>
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<p>Before he went into AB camp, Barrett was kicking poorly - the canes fans were urging that kicking responsibilities be passed to Woodward. If I recall correctly, he missed something like five kicks from six versus the Chiefs, which - along with Woodward's tits for hands - cost them a win (and quite a comfortable win).</p>
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<p>Since AB camp - and including for the ABs - he's clearly kicking much better. Suggestions that he can't play first five for the ABs because his goalkicking isn't good enough, or that the canes' goalkicking duties should be passed to Woodward, have died away.</p>
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<p>My point is that people look at goal kicking all wrong. Barrett missed many kicks and we should have beaten the Chiefs that day. Barrett's kicking did cost us the win that day but we wouldn't have been in the game if we didn't have Barrett at 10. Woodward probably is a better goal kicker than Barrett so should probably be kicking the goals. Most teams prefer their first-five to fill that role.</p>
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<p>My point is that people, even in New Zealand, overrate the value of a good goal kicker. You can just look at how teams play these days - many teams don't even take the three points and go for the tries. I think that general kicking, control of a game, passing, defence, running etc are all more important attributes than goal kicking. Yet, we seem to discuss goal kicking a lot more relative to those attributes. We probably do that because goal kicking is easy to measure.</p>
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<p>Barrett's goal kicking isn't just not an issue right now, I don't think it has ever been a real issue. Barrett or Cruden is going to be the All Black first five and those two players are close enough in goal kicking ability that who you pick should come down to the sum of all the other factors. I think that was true before the Welsh test series and now.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bones" data-cid="602371" data-time="1470113990">
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<p>Dummy and take the outside on your own on Dmac? Maybe he summed it up perfectly but it struck me as selfish, why not look for support?</p>
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<p>Then after having a go on the outside and realising he wasn't going to make it, he kicked ahead for his support, which would be unselfish?</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MN5" data-cid="602411" data-time="1470120537"><p>He's no Matt Todd but he's quick enough.</p></blockquote>
I can see how he's just far too fast for those slow hurricanes chumps like Barrett, Perenara, Vito, Fifita, etc... -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="RoninWC" data-cid="602315" data-time="1470105374"><p>And someone said earlier, he doesn't have the impact in the tackle as Cane, well maybe not (I actually dispute this but I'll leave that for now) but he certainly has been dominant in tackles and also being tackled.</p></blockquote><br>If you get around to it, I'd like to read this argument. I'll accept that he's hard to pull down and has excellent leg drive when tackled, but you'll have to find some examples of him smashing people in the tackle.
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="antipodean" data-cid="602431" data-time="1470122525">
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<p>If you get around to it, I'd like to read this argument. I'll accept that he's hard to pull down and has excellent leg drive when tackled, but you'll have to find some examples of him smashing people in the tackle.</p>
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<p>Some pretty decent hits in this tribute...That 1 on Luatua was beauty!</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bones" data-cid="602356" data-time="1470112680">
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<p>Ardie seems a bit of a selfish player. That break he made, why not head for support instead of try the flashy dummy and go yourself?</p>
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<p>That break could have resulted in a brilliant try for A. Savea, if TJP had bothered to look over his right shoulder and passed it back to Savea in support, after he gathered that kick instead of trying the miracle off load back on the inside to Halaholo <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.worldrugbyvids.com/index.php/2016/08/01/ardie-savea-vs-chiefs/'>http://www.worldrugbyvids.com/index.php/2016/08/01/ardie-savea-vs-chiefs/</a></p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="chico" data-cid="602504" data-time="1470131304">
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<p>Some pretty decent hits in this tribute...That 1 on Luatua was beauty!</p>
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<p>3 minutes and 46 seconds and there's one tackle where he drives someone backwards. Kinda proves my point yeah?</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="antipodean" data-cid="602520" data-time="1470133145">
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<p>3 minutes and 46 seconds and there's one tackle where he drives someone backwards. Kinda proves my point yeah?</p>
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<p>Kind of a silly point if you ask me, just as long as he's making his tackle's and not missing any whether they be dominant one's or not. But hey, i'm guessing your a big Sam Cane fan so fair enough. To be fair on Ardie, i'd like to see Cane try and pull off 1 of those tackle's where the opposition player has 10-15 metre head start and Savea is still able to haul them in....show's a'lot of heart that kid that he never gives up!</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="chico" data-cid="602523" data-time="1470134202">
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<p>Kind of a silly point if you ask me, just as long as he's making his tackle's and not missing any whether they be dominant one's or not. But hey, i'm guessing your a big Sam Cane fan so fair enough. To be fair on Ardie, i'd like to see Cane try and pull off 1 of those tackle's where the opposition player has 10-15 metre head start and Savea is still able to haul them in....show's a'lot of heart that kid that he never gives up!</p>
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<p>I know Wayne Smith puts quite some emphasis on the difference between tackle effectiveness; placing greater importance on tackles past the gain line that slow down the opposition's ball as opposed to passive tackle behind the gain line.</p>
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<p>I am fair on Ardie. I've said on numerous times that he's the best attacking open side in the world at the moment IMO.</p> -
<p>I don't doubt Ardie can make dominant tackles, but I expect in the game plan he is within, he isn't there for that, the use of him by the canes is different to how the Chiefs use Cane, and again Todd, similarly the way they fit into the AB 7 game plan, which is why you cant simply compare stats</p>
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<p>Ardie is still developing. Cane did not hit the scene making dominant tackles either, he was always an accurate tackler with a massive workrate but the dominant tackling is something he has developed in the last 1 - 2 years. McCaw was the same. Very few people have that from the get go.</p>
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<p>For me, Ardie is still behind Cane as a test match starting 7, but has more potential moving forward <u>if</u> he can develop that part of his game further.</p>
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<p>In the mean time, he will make a seriously good bench player.</p>
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<p>We are spoilt.</p>
