Hurricanes v Chiefs
-
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="reprobate" data-cid="601919" data-time="1469956098">
<div>
<p>totally agree re barrett's tackling. it was initially a real weakness, but has been consistently improving and is no longer an issue at all. </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>The other thing that is no longer an issue is Barrett's goal-kicking. Before he went into ABs camp he was a liability and cost the Canes at least one game. He's apparently come back completely repaired - so a tip of the cap to whomever did that in the AB set-up. Possibly Enoka as much as the skills/kicking coach. </p> -
<p>Barrett's goal kicking has cost the <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://goalkickers.co.za/'>Hurricanes 24 points this season</a>, less than 2 points per game. Hardly an issue right now.</p>
-
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="hydro11" data-cid="601976" data-time="1470004444">
<div>
<p>Barrett's goal kicking has cost the <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://goalkickers.co.za/'>Hurricanes 24 points this season</a>, less than 2 points per game. Hardly an issue right now.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>That website rates him the worst kicker in the competition! 64th out of 64.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>His kicking looks like it has improved in the past 4 or 5 weeks but I wouldn't be using that source as evidence that his kicking is "hardly an issue right now"!</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Don Frye" data-cid="601992" data-time="1470005340">
<div>
<p>That website rates him the worst kicker in the competition! 64th out of 64.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>His kicking looks like it has improved in the past 4 or 5 weeks but I wouldn't be using that source as evidence that his kicking is "hardly an issue right now"!</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>But the website also says he costs the Hurricanes less than 2 points per game. Barrett got the Hurricanes 2 tries they wouldn't have scored otherwise on Saturday. The conclusion I make from that website is that goal kicking isn't all that important. A first-five can cost you one or two points with the boot if they are as good as Barrett is.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="hydro11" data-cid="602011" data-time="1470006940">
<div>
<p>But the website also says he costs the Hurricanes less than 2 points per game. <strong>Barrett got the Hurricanes 2 tries they wouldn't have scored otherwise on Saturday</strong>. <strong>The conclusion I make from that website is that goal kicking isn't all that important. A first-five can cost you one or two points with the boot if they are as good as Barrett is</strong>.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>Not in test rugby.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gt12" data-cid="602021" data-time="1470009234"><p>
Not in test rugby.</p></blockquote>
<br>
Yeah because BB has never created tries from nothing in test rugby. <br>
Would love him to be kicking at 100%, but he offers a lot more than his rivals in the other areas in his game. So it needs to be taken into consideration. -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gt12" data-cid="602021" data-time="1470009234">
<div>
<p>Not in test rugby.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Why does test rugby have to be different? The first-five is the most important position on the field. A first-five playing well is going to add a lot more than a couple of points over a first-five playing averagely. A first-five doesn't need to set up tries to add value. Surely we can all agree that a first-five who has a good general kicking game is going to add a lot more than 1 or 2 points per game? A first-five who can control the game or link up with team mates is also going to add a lot more than 1 or 2 points per game.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>The point is I would only pick Sopoaga or Cruden ahead of Barrett if they were at least almost equal in everything else.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Don Frye" data-cid="601992" data-time="1470005340">
<div>
<p>That website rates him the worst kicker in the competition! 64th out of 64.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>His kicking looks like it has improved in the past 4 or 5 weeks but I wouldn't be using that source as evidence that his kicking is "hardly an issue right now"!</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Also i should point out that he isn't the worst kicker in the competition. The reason he lost a relatively high number of points is because he had so many shots at goal. Cruden and West actually had worse kicker ratings, they just had less opportunities.</p> -
<p>Not sure quite what your point is hydro.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Before he went into AB camp, Barrett was kicking poorly - the canes fans were urging that kicking responsibilities be passed to Woodward. If I recall correctly, he missed something like five kicks from six versus the Chiefs, which - along with Woodward's tits for hands - cost them a win (and quite a comfortable win).</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Since AB camp - and including for the ABs - he's clearly kicking much better. Suggestions that he can't play first five for the ABs because his goalkicking isn't good enough, or that the canes' goalkicking duties should be passed to Woodward, have died away.</p> -
<p>This was a clear points win in favour of Barrett versus Cruden.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I would say that given what this game meant to both teams/players, BB clearly stood up in the semi-final cauldron and his poise and gamesmanship was outstanding as was his kicking.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>His improvement in the past 12 months has been remarkable whereas Cruden IMO has been rather stagnant. Yes Cruden is an outstanding 10 but right now it is very clear that Barrett has surpassed him and again, IMO, Barrett should be the starting 10 in the RC.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I also think that Ardie deserves a start as his play has been irresistable and at the conclusion of that game, he is the top ranked tackler in the entire comp with one game to go. Sure he standsout because of his speed and open field play but that tackle count shows he clearly get's in and does the grunt work.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>And someone said earlier, he doesn't have the impact in the tackle as Cane, well maybe not (I actually dispute this but I'll leave that for now) but he certainly has been dominant in tackles and also being tackled. Add that to his dynanisim/athleticism that got him that awesome turnover in the tackle in this game, I think he deserves a crack at the starting 7 job.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bones" data-cid="602356" data-time="1470112680">
<div>
<p>Ardie seems a bit of a selfish player. That break he made, why not head for support instead of try the flashy dummy and go yourself?</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>His head must be in the clouds from all the growth spurts</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bones" data-cid="602362" data-time="1470112993">
</p>
<div>
<p>Or his hair, he likes to...kid n play. Wahey! 90s!</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>You made that a 90s reference.....not me......but I'll go with it. Lucky I work in an office alone, cos this isn't very Gangsta.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>[media] -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bones" data-cid="602356" data-time="1470112680">
<div>
<p>Ardie seems a bit of a selfish player. That break he made, why not head for support instead of try the flashy dummy and go yourself?</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>Not sure if you are serious but after his dummy and go, when he realised he wasn't going to go any further on his own, he summed up his support and put in a perfect chip kick which ended up resulting in a 5 metre scrum to the Canes - overall not what I would call a selfish play.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bones" data-cid="602371" data-time="1470113990">
<div>
<p>Dummy and take the outside on your own on Dmac? Maybe he summed it up perfectly but it struck me as selfish, why not look for support?</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>Pretty certain some kind of alert will have gone off on Canes4Life's PC and he'll be on here to defend his boy and explain that it was all a ploy from Ardie to try and make the game a bit closer.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Chris B." data-cid="602290" data-time="1470101943">
<div>
<p>Not sure quite what your point is hydro.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Before he went into AB camp, Barrett was kicking poorly - the canes fans were urging that kicking responsibilities be passed to Woodward. If I recall correctly, he missed something like five kicks from six versus the Chiefs, which - along with Woodward's tits for hands - cost them a win (and quite a comfortable win).</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Since AB camp - and including for the ABs - he's clearly kicking much better. Suggestions that he can't play first five for the ABs because his goalkicking isn't good enough, or that the canes' goalkicking duties should be passed to Woodward, have died away.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>My point is that people look at goal kicking all wrong. Barrett missed many kicks and we should have beaten the Chiefs that day. Barrett's kicking did cost us the win that day but we wouldn't have been in the game if we didn't have Barrett at 10. Woodward probably is a better goal kicker than Barrett so should probably be kicking the goals. Most teams prefer their first-five to fill that role.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>My point is that people, even in New Zealand, overrate the value of a good goal kicker. You can just look at how teams play these days - many teams don't even take the three points and go for the tries. I think that general kicking, control of a game, passing, defence, running etc are all more important attributes than goal kicking. Yet, we seem to discuss goal kicking a lot more relative to those attributes. We probably do that because goal kicking is easy to measure.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Barrett's goal kicking isn't just not an issue right now, I don't think it has ever been a real issue. Barrett or Cruden is going to be the All Black first five and those two players are close enough in goal kicking ability that who you pick should come down to the sum of all the other factors. I think that was true before the Welsh test series and now.</p>
