All Blacks 2023
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2023:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2023:
Unfortunately, you sometimes can't wave a magic wand to create the players you need.
No, but if you've been part of the AB coaching set-up for a decade, then you are probably in the best position any international coach has ever been in to have had succession/injury planning for each position in place.
On the other hand - if you look at our 2019 squad, Hansen had been there for 15 years and had probably our best ever team in 2015, but he came up with this....
https://www.allblacks.com/news/all-blacks-squad-named-for-rugby-world-cup-2019/
A fair bit of ordinary.
Aside from the five wings foolishness, I think they've probably picked the best we have.
But, it will be interesting to see what Razor makes of our resources next year. It's quite possible he will make Fozzie look like Toddy Blackadder.
On the other hand - Fozzie isn't dead yet!
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For all his potential Cantab bias I doubt Razor would pick an injured George Bridge as his impact winger.
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@Steve said in All Blacks 2023:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2023:
I put it in perspective 4 years in charge as HC, 8 years previous as an assistant coach 12 years in the AB environment as a coach.
That would make you think we would have come to this WC in a better state game plan,Selections etc.If Foster was up to the job he would have been better He would have achieved bugger all of his KPI's.
We have lost a lot of Respect as a Rugby nation under Fosters reign.Should he not be put under the spotlight as HC for the state we are in.
I blame Foster for most of the shit we are in.Twickenham and the France game seem to be getting hand waved away by some folks as a “warm up” and an “inconsequential” pool game.
But we aren’t just losing. We are getting shellacked.
The gap has closed between the top 8 nations, granted, but in my lifetime the Allblacks rarely lost two games in a row and if we did we were not towelled up on the score board like the current fashion.
The world has changed.
England used to beat us once per decade, France would blow us off the park occasionally, Australia were often good, and the Jaapies were banned for 15 years.
We got shellacked by SA - but, frankly if they'd played better they should have put 50 on us after the red card.
I thought we had the better of the first half vs France and the score blew out with a late try.
Too much hand wringing, pants wetting and white flag waving on the Fern at present.
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This post is deleted!
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@Steve said in All Blacks 2023:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
@frugby but BB is kicking poorly (the worldy on the weekend being the exception)
for me its straight forward, to get the ball to our weapons at 11,13,14 it needs to go through a second Boss which is normally the 15, 9 > 10 > 12 > 13 > 11/14 just doesnt work against the rush defence....but when we go through BB either of 9 or 10....he kicks it. I would like to see the 15 actually inject himself and either draw a defender before unleashing other....or if he times it right breaking the line
I feel Jordan is more likely to do that than BB
The fact of the matter is his form at Super level has also fallen off a cliff.
Some peoples contention is that Beaudy is only copping flak because of Fozzies poor game plan.But his super rugby highlight reel only consists of stuff in a Hurricanes shirt.
He has done the square root of fuck all for The Blues and has been so uncommanding at both 10 and 15 that he has essentially been job sharing with Stephen Perofeta from week to week.
He is a shot fighter.
Agree with this. What if Foster’s master game plan is “Beaudy, go out there and do your thing”.
Attempt enough up and unders and cross kicks and eventually you will get “proof” of how awesome it is.
It was the same at the Blues last couple of years.
Is it a coincidence that Foster and Mcdonald had the same game plan? Or was it the common denominator of BB being given free reign to try his trick shots and it not being a winning formula? -
@Chris said in All Blacks 2023:
I put it in perspective 4 years in charge as HC, 8 years previous as an assistant coach 12 years in the AB environment as a coach.
That would make you think we would have come to this WC in a better state game plan,Selections etc.If Foster was up to the job he would have been better He would have achieved bugger all of his KPI's.
We have lost a lot of Respect as a Rugby nation under Fosters reign.Should he not be put under the spotlight as HC for the state we are in.
I blame Foster for most of the shit we are in.I wish I could give this post multiple upticks as it says everything that should be said.
After 12 years in the environment all we get is “ gee we’ve got to be better “ and “ we were taught a few home truths tonight” and he says these with a straight face.
Just go please Fozzie, just go. -
@His-Bobness @Chris-B Foster is a conservative selector. If memory serves me right, Hansen said to him before 2017 Lions test 1 that Rieko Ioane was ready to play and Foster disagreed, favouring the tried and tested Julian Savea.
Turns out Hansen was right.
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Foster has been forced to change his preferred selections over 4 years - He didn't want EDG or TL, preferring OT and NL at the outset.
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He has stuck with his dual pivot strategy (I think this is his baby and he will go down with it)
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He was preferring Fakatava, who suffered some cruel injuries to curb his momentum. He's chosen Christie because he thinks he's the closest in style to Smith, when in reality, there isn't anybody in NZ like Smith. Weber would have given you a 7/10 performance consistently and brought some mana with him.
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He picked Havili at 12 (who I think would be a decent 15 in the current squad), going against the grain of the rest of the rugby world who were developing big, powerful 12s. He was ultimately forced to select JB at 12 because of injury (ALB, Goodhue)
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Clarke was another pet project that was seemingly not going anywhere. Again, injury forced a rethink and Telea seized his chance.
And that's not mentioning Sotutu, whose form fell off a cliff as a result of being messed around, IMO. Shoehorning Savea into the 8 role meant Foster was looking for a backup to Savea with the same skillset, when those players don't really exist in NZ.
Eddie Jones went with the mobile backrow in the last world cup cycle and it worked to a degree. It fell very short in 2019 final when the Bok backrow blasted them off the park. What is Eddie doing now? He's picking the biggest, baddest backrow he can find to fight fire with fire.
Foster is a bit stuck I think. And his assistants are stuck too because Foster sets the vision and strategy for the team. So it is what it is.
I am fascinated to see what Robertson's first squad looks like next year, just to see how much he disagrees with the make up of Foster's RWC 2023 squad. I think it will be quite telling, even with a raft of retirements.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2023:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2023:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2023:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2023:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2023:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2023:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2023:
Example: Do I think it was Ian Foster's fault we lost that game in the weekend? No, not particularly, the key injuries in key positions was a severe handicap,
think we're always going to disagree on this, as ive said before its not 2011 where we had several injuries to one position....one injury to 6 and one to 12 caused problems....its literally the coaches jobs to plan for likely events...having a plan for one injury to a position is firming in his wheelhouse
Funnily enough, I think we pretty much agree, I guess you are just harsher than me. I think it is a major criticism to Foster that we don't have these backups, but then at the same time, he is bloody unlucky to lose Lomax, Retallick, Frizell, Cane and Jordie Barrett... we could have lost say Taylor, Whitelock, Ioane, Telea and B Barrett and had way less issues.
….and been beaten 27-0 instead.
Sub in Fainga'anuku, and it isn't a major drop in levels is it. Like for like, obviously I think Telea is better, but It doesn't materially impact the gameplan.
Hard to say, his attack is a bit more “predictable” than that of Telea’s.
…..and of the others mentioned I think you’re putting some of them on a pedestal they don’t deserve to be on.
Who exactly are you referring to here?
Lomax. Is he that good or is he just good compared to others ? ( without Red Beard and Bart around I’m fucked if I know )
Retallick. Was a legend…..not quite the player he was.
Frizell. Getting pumped up on the back of one superb game. How many of those has he, or can he, string together ?
Cane. Was very good……not quite the player he was.
> J Barrett. Has done a fine job at 12 but is he genuinely world class ? ( actually compared to his back ups he is )
Obviously I'll say fook yes, but since it was only a freak series of events that got old custard guts to even put him there, we haven't seen him in 12 all that much yet.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks 2023:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2023:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2023:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2023:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2023:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2023:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2023:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2023:
Example: Do I think it was Ian Foster's fault we lost that game in the weekend? No, not particularly, the key injuries in key positions was a severe handicap,
think we're always going to disagree on this, as ive said before its not 2011 where we had several injuries to one position....one injury to 6 and one to 12 caused problems....its literally the coaches jobs to plan for likely events...having a plan for one injury to a position is firming in his wheelhouse
Funnily enough, I think we pretty much agree, I guess you are just harsher than me. I think it is a major criticism to Foster that we don't have these backups, but then at the same time, he is bloody unlucky to lose Lomax, Retallick, Frizell, Cane and Jordie Barrett... we could have lost say Taylor, Whitelock, Ioane, Telea and B Barrett and had way less issues.
….and been beaten 27-0 instead.
Sub in Fainga'anuku, and it isn't a major drop in levels is it. Like for like, obviously I think Telea is better, but It doesn't materially impact the gameplan.
Hard to say, his attack is a bit more “predictable” than that of Telea’s.
…..and of the others mentioned I think you’re putting some of them on a pedestal they don’t deserve to be on.
Who exactly are you referring to here?
Lomax. Is he that good or is he just good compared to others ? ( without Red Beard and Bart around I’m fucked if I know )
Retallick. Was a legend…..not quite the player he was.
Frizell. Getting pumped up on the back of one superb game. How many of those has he, or can he, string together ?
Cane. Was very good……not quite the player he was.
> J Barrett. Has done a fine job at 12 but is he genuinely world class ? ( actually compared to his back ups he is )
Obviously I'll say fook yes, but since it was only a freak series of events that got old custard guts to even put him there, we haven't seen him in 12 all that much yet.
You can say the same thing about Jordan. Yes he's had some bad games. But he's not had an extended run at 15 to get comfortable because Foster persists with the husk that is BB
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2023:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks 2023:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2023:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2023:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2023:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2023:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2023:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2023:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2023:
Example: Do I think it was Ian Foster's fault we lost that game in the weekend? No, not particularly, the key injuries in key positions was a severe handicap,
think we're always going to disagree on this, as ive said before its not 2011 where we had several injuries to one position....one injury to 6 and one to 12 caused problems....its literally the coaches jobs to plan for likely events...having a plan for one injury to a position is firming in his wheelhouse
Funnily enough, I think we pretty much agree, I guess you are just harsher than me. I think it is a major criticism to Foster that we don't have these backups, but then at the same time, he is bloody unlucky to lose Lomax, Retallick, Frizell, Cane and Jordie Barrett... we could have lost say Taylor, Whitelock, Ioane, Telea and B Barrett and had way less issues.
….and been beaten 27-0 instead.
Sub in Fainga'anuku, and it isn't a major drop in levels is it. Like for like, obviously I think Telea is better, but It doesn't materially impact the gameplan.
Hard to say, his attack is a bit more “predictable” than that of Telea’s.
…..and of the others mentioned I think you’re putting some of them on a pedestal they don’t deserve to be on.
Who exactly are you referring to here?
Lomax. Is he that good or is he just good compared to others ? ( without Red Beard and Bart around I’m fucked if I know )
Retallick. Was a legend…..not quite the player he was.
Frizell. Getting pumped up on the back of one superb game. How many of those has he, or can he, string together ?
Cane. Was very good……not quite the player he was.
> J Barrett. Has done a fine job at 12 but is he genuinely world class ? ( actually compared to his back ups he is )
Obviously I'll say fook yes, but since it was only a freak series of events that got old custard guts to even put him there, we haven't seen him in 12 all that much yet.
You can say the same thing about Jordan. Yes he's had some bad games. But he's not had an extended run at 15 to get comfortable because Foster persists with the husk that is BB
Yeah, I'm not convinced about Jordan at 15, but he'll no doubt be the main man there in 2024 and we'll see that I'm probably wrong. Funny how so many of us have basically written this year off and are thinking about the hopeful new dawn of 2024.
Even more funny would be if Foster by some miracle actually pulls this off. If you saw him in a pub in future years, you'd have to give him a slap first before buying him a beer.
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@pukunui said in All Blacks 2023:
@Steve said in All Blacks 2023:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
@frugby but BB is kicking poorly (the worldy on the weekend being the exception)
for me its straight forward, to get the ball to our weapons at 11,13,14 it needs to go through a second Boss which is normally the 15, 9 > 10 > 12 > 13 > 11/14 just doesnt work against the rush defence....but when we go through BB either of 9 or 10....he kicks it. I would like to see the 15 actually inject himself and either draw a defender before unleashing other....or if he times it right breaking the line
I feel Jordan is more likely to do that than BB
The fact of the matter is his form at Super level has also fallen off a cliff.
Some peoples contention is that Beaudy is only copping flak because of Fozzies poor game plan.But his super rugby highlight reel only consists of stuff in a Hurricanes shirt.
He has done the square root of fuck all for The Blues and has been so uncommanding at both 10 and 15 that he has essentially been job sharing with Stephen Perofeta from week to week.
He is a shot fighter.
Agree with this. What if Foster’s master game plan is “Beaudy, go out there and do your thing”.
Attempt enough up and unders and cross kicks and eventually you will get “proof” of how awesome it is.
It was the same at the Blues last couple of years.
Is it a coincidence that Foster and Mcdonald had the same game plan? Or was it the common denominator of BB being given free reign to try his trick shots and it not being a winning formula? -
@Rancid-Schnitzel I think he'll have competition in the next cycle.
Stephenson and Zarn Sullivan will push him.
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@Jimmy-Jimmy said in All Blacks 2023:
Is it a coincidence that Foster and Mcdonald had the same game plan? Or was it the common denominator of BB being given free reign to try his trick shots and it not being a winning formula?
The Emperor has no percentage plays.
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@frugby said in All Blacks 2023:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
@frugby but BB is kicking poorly (the worldy on the weekend being the exception)
for me its straight forward, to get the ball to our weapons at 11,13,14 it needs to go through a second Boss which is normally the 15, 9 > 10 > 12 > 13 > 11/14 just doesnt work against the rust defence....but when we go through BB either of 9 or 10....he kicks it. I would like to see the 15 actually inject himself and either draw a defender before unleashing other....or if he times it right breaking the line
I feel Jordan is more likely to do that than BB
You can debate the first point if you want, personally I think his general range kicking was actually fairly good, and was something noted at the time.
With your second point, your basically just saying you don't like Foster's tactics with ball in hand, and you'd like to see us do something different. If Beauden Barrett wasn't following the gameplan, contrary to popular belief, he'd have been dropped. If the coaches didn't want him to do the chip kicks, he'd stop doing them, or he wouldn't be playing.
Barrett (and to a lesser extent Mo'unga) have just become the fall guys for when the All Blacks attack goes wrong.
I find it exceedingly odd that numerous people on this forum keep complaining about the fullback in modern Test rugby. The issue is the ability to secure quick ruck ball on the front foot. Address that and the picture changes immensely.
But herp derp change the fullback and we'll win.
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But herp derp change the fullback and we'll win.
Typical TSF miss the point. I haven't seen a single post say that.
