All Blacks 2023
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@Kiwiwomble I'm not
I've tried to be at least a bit pragmatic over the journey as i think there are some extenuating circumstances
2020 was just a fucked year
I don't think our players are as good as some do
Other teams have definitely got better
Super Rugby (both Aotearoa and Pacific) have been enormous handbrakes on our development (and that's before you throw in our attitude to it)But I'm pretty much done. Winning the WC would be a very pleasant surprise, and probably our best, and most unlikely, win ever. But we've been served up some pretty ordinary AB rugby over the past cycle. While some players have got better, there are no real signs of development across the squad. How many guys from 2019 are still there. And how many of them are any better? They weren't world beaters then FFS.
It's a shit show, and we are about to have a full reset akin to Ted's in 2004 when he had to rebuild a broken culture and a forward pack that couldn't compete.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks 2023:
@akan004 said in All Blacks 2023:
As much as I hate wishing injury on a player, I think our only chance of getting past the QF stage is for Christie and Beauden to get injured. Injury has been the greatest selector over the last 4 years under Foster and one can only hope that it will help us again over the next few weeks.
With all due respect, Ginga and BB could both die in tragic cheese and/or baguette related accidents tommorrow and it probably won't change a thing. The issues run much deeper and wider than just the 15 and reserve 9.
At least Roigard off the bench and Jordan at fullback will give us a bit more punch on attack. Even with those changes we only have a low to moderate chance of winning our QF, and that's only if we get Ireland. We have no chance of beating the Boks.
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
@His-Bobness said in All Blacks 2023:
do we really think we have the ability to go from "significantly underdone" to knockout rugby winners in three games against teams like Namibia and Uruguay
We've had two warm up games against major contenders and we'll get another decent match vs Italy - then a run-around against Uruguay where we score lots of tries and really get our combos humming might be just what the Doctor ordered.
"The loser now will be later to win...." (well, I hope so).
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In fact, the whole verse is fabulous stuff from Bob....
Come writers and critics
Who prophesize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide
The chance won't come again
And don't speak too soon
For the wheel's still in spin
And there's no tellin' who
That it's namin'
For the loser now
Will be later to win
For the times they are a-changin' -
Removing BB from 15 may do two things
Get a possibly better FB in there (i say maybe because there is no evidence he's actually better at test level)
Get BB out of the fucking way and let RM run the side, which just might give some clarity to proceedings, with one guy in charge.Of course we don't know if RM can run it all himself, and we don't know if Jordan is actually a better test FB. And the change in approach of that size would be enormous for a QF.
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@akan004 said in All Blacks 2023:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks 2023:
@akan004 said in All Blacks 2023:
As much as I hate wishing injury on a player, I think our only chance of getting past the QF stage is for Christie and Beauden to get injured. Injury has been the greatest selector over the last 4 years under Foster and one can only hope that it will help us again over the next few weeks.
With all due respect, Ginga and BB could both die in tragic cheese and/or baguette related accidents tommorrow and it probably won't change a thing. The issues run much deeper and wider than just the 15 and reserve 9.
At least Roigard off the bench and Jordan at fullback will give us a bit more punch on attack. Even with those changes we only have a low to moderate chance of winning our QF, and that's only if we get Ireland. We have no chance of beating the Boks.
It would be arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic IMHO. The place we need more punch is in the forwards.
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
@His-Bobness said in All Blacks 2023:
If he pulls all that off - silences doubters like me - and coaches the ABs to win the whole thing, he may justly claim Wayne Smith’s title as Uber Professor of Rugby.
how?! how can people be so willing for forget all the other shit, surely if he was to win the whole thing is more of a fluke, the weird draw/seeding and probably some individual moment of brilliance scaping home...hardly anything he's actually done, his whole game plan is kind of "dont have agame plan, vibe it out on the pitch"
I was joking.
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It could just be my perception, but one thing I notice is that other sides seem to be able to almost endlessly and effortlessly recycle possession. The ball security and cleanout are very good. Yet when we go the pick and drive it's almost the expectation that there will be a fůck up at some critical point. Just look at the weekend. That shit used to be an AB strength.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks 2023:
@akan004 said in All Blacks 2023:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks 2023:
@akan004 said in All Blacks 2023:
As much as I hate wishing injury on a player, I think our only chance of getting past the QF stage is for Christie and Beauden to get injured. Injury has been the greatest selector over the last 4 years under Foster and one can only hope that it will help us again over the next few weeks.
With all due respect, Ginga and BB could both die in tragic cheese and/or baguette related accidents tommorrow and it probably won't change a thing. The issues run much deeper and wider than just the 15 and reserve 9.
At least Roigard off the bench and Jordan at fullback will give us a bit more punch on attack. Even with those changes we only have a low to moderate chance of winning our QF, and that's only if we get Ireland. We have no chance of beating the Boks.
It would be arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic IMHO. The place we need more punch is in the forwards.
But, we should get that with the return of Lomax, Retallick, Frizell, Cane - and probably Blackadder.
de Groot, Taylor, Lomax
Retallick, Barrett
Frizell, Cane
SaveaSami T., Tu'ungafasi, Laulala, Whitelock, Blackadder.
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I would rather do it drop Barrett and put Jordan to FB than serve up the same dross in the QF then wonder if it would have improved things, nothing to lose as I see it.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks 2023:
The issues run much deeper and wider than just the 15 and reserve 9.
Maybe, but 9 is key to our play, and the 15 is a part-time 10-I think these positions are crucial and (at least on attack) the daylight between our best 9 and 15* and the second best is Nordic arctic summer strength.
*If you agree with me BB is not the best 15.
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@Chris said in All Blacks 2023:
I would rather do it drop Barrett and put Jordan to FB than serve up the same dross in the QF then wonder if it would have improved things, nothing to lose as I see it.
Seconded, I am all for a new form of dross!
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@nostrildamus
Some different dross can be better than the current dross,Not all dross is the same. -
@Chris Perhaps they can rename themselves the ‘All Dross’ and replace the haka with a rendition of The Bus Stop?
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I like it
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2023:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks 2023:
The issues run much deeper and wider than just the 15 and reserve 9.
Maybe, but 9 is key to our play, and the 15 is a part-time 10-I think these positions are crucial and (at least on attack) the daylight between our best 9 and 15* and the second best is Nordic arctic summer strength.
*If you agree with me BB is not the best 15.
Again, ditch BB for Jordan and Redhaired Abomination for CR and do you reckon it would make much difference last weekend? RM has also been allowed to be sole playmaker in some tests and that also made no difference. Although I don't think he's been 10 with Jordan at 15.
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@Chris said in All Blacks 2023:
@nostrildamus
Some different dross can be better than the current dross,Not all dross is the same.Oh I meant it, any other dross is preferable to this learnings slop! I was just thinking this morning if the ABs XV led by DMac coached by Razor played the ABs last lineup led by Foster-who would win...probably the ABs in the forwards ..but overall?
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@Rancid-Schnitzel Moving Jordan to FB also brings Leicester into the 15, and he offers more punch around the rucks than most of our forwards do.
I don't know, I'm just desperate for something to change as the current formula is not working.
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@His-Bobness said in All Blacks 2023:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
@His-Bobness said in All Blacks 2023:
If he pulls all that off - silences doubters like me - and coaches the ABs to win the whole thing, he may justly claim Wayne Smith’s title as Uber Professor of Rugby.
how?! how can people be so willing for forget all the other shit, surely if he was to win the whole thing is more of a fluke, the weird draw/seeding and probably some individual moment of brilliance scaping home...hardly anything he's actually done, his whole game plan is kind of "dont have agame plan, vibe it out on the pitch"
I was joking.
apologies, have seen it said with a straight face byt others and i just find it amazing
